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FID & PP Card Township Paperwork Requirements

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11 hours ago, bigpartnership said:

Local police asked me to do fingerprinting in parallel while my references are responding to the NJSP letters and getting them notarized

Illegal

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I’ve only had to deal with two PD’s over the years for FID issues and P2P’s: Bayonne and Kenilworth.

Bayonne had a couple of speed bumps laid out for firearms applicants. One was their request that you provide several “neighborhood references” in addition to those required by state law. Not only was that illegal, it was an egregious breach of privacy, as was their old policy (at least in the early 80’s through 90’s) of actually sending a detective down and ringing the doorbells of the neighbors on each side of you to see what they thought of you, and to inform them you were looking to purchase a handgun. They still want your employment information, and will send letters to your employer divulging your intention to purchase firearms, asking them if they have any objection, or reason to think it would be a bad idea. There used to be a “General Information Release Form” given to applicants, which would essentially give them authorization to utilize any and all means of investigating you and your background. The latest kink for prospective gun owners was their edict that they will not accept any hand written firearms applications.

Kenilworth has their own firearms packets they hand out, which—besides the required forms—includes a “lifetime address form”. Yes, they actually want you to submit every address you’ve ever maintained....from birth. LOL.

Needless to say, it was not easy or pleasant in either town to challenge them on these illegalities, but with a mix of politeness, firmness, numerous letters and phone calls, and copies of relevant statutes, the respective PD’s eventually did the right thing and processed my paperwork using only the state required forms.

One thing that stays with me is the words of one of the COP’s, who said, “We knew these additional forms weren’t needed, but the state police told us to keep using them until somebody bitched about it”. Such a casual dismissal of the infringements they place on our rights.


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I was perusing my town's Firearms Applications Procedures and came across this doosey for CCW.  I draw your attention to number c.  Most of this stuff is fine (although I did not know it was an extra $50) I thought it was odd that they include c since technically you do not need an employment letter of need or (not and) a PI licence.  I guess they put etc so you could submit a personal letter for need?

Permit to Carry

a) Completed Application in Duplicate (you will need THREE ORIGINALS, NO COPIES ACCEPTED) with four (4) photos

b) Signed Consent for Mental Health Records Search Form

c) Employment letter of need and Private Investigator license, etc.

d) Photcopies of past permits, Firearms ID card

e) Fingerprints

f) $50 Money Order (BLANK)

g) Firearms Qualifications Scores, etc

 

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I believe Manalapan Twp is also in violation of the law. Only 2-3 days a month 4 hrs each day to drop off paperwork and pickup permits. Last couple times took me 7 months. Going to apply again Tuesday 10am-2pm. Lastly they will now only accept typed applications. Sounds like age discrimination to me.

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54 minutes ago, capt14k said:

I believe Manalapan Twp is also in violation of the law. Only 2-3 days a month 4 hrs each day to drop off paperwork and pickup permits. Last couple times took me 7 months. Going to apply again Tuesday 10am-2pm. Lastly they will now only accept typed applications. Sounds like age discrimination to me.

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There is nothing in the statute about access or restriction thereof. The typing requirement may be in violation because you are adding a requirement to the process.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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There is nothing in the statute about access or restriction thereof. The typing requirement may be in violation because you are adding a requirement to the process.
Adios,
Pizza Bob
Well there is the whole 30 day thing.

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Asked and answered - case law
I always wondered if anyone ever actually filed suit. What is the relevant case law that allows them to ignore the codified law. I assume NJ Court ruled safety and making sure a bad guy doesn't buy a gun is more important than law and Constitution. Even though criminals usually don't go through the proper channels to get their gats.

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4 hours ago, capt14k said:

I always wondered if anyone ever actually filed suit. What is the relevant case law that allows them to ignore the codified law. I assume NJ Court ruled safety and making sure a bad guy doesn't buy a gun is more important than law and Constitution. Even though criminals usually don't go through the proper channels to get their gats.

Adler v. Livak

Read the opinion here...

https://njgunpermitattorney.com/2009/04/23/when-is-30-days-not-30-days/

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That case involved an initial FID and fingerprinting. What about subsequent permits to purchase? They too are covered by the 30 days. If so would the court rule the same way being additional fingerprinting is not required? In NJ they likely would.

 

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15 hours ago, capt14k said:

That case involved an initial FID and fingerprinting. What about subsequent permits to purchase? They too are covered by the 30 days. If so would the court rule the same way being additional fingerprinting is not required? In NJ they likely would.

I believe the gist of the decision is that the 30 day clock doesn't start until all the information, needed by the issuing authority to make the issue/not issue decision, is in hand.

This is totally disingenuous since the process is not transparent and the applicant has no way of knowing whether the info is in hand, and two, the decision was rendered based on the time taken for the fingerprint check. At the time of the decision that was done manually. We now have AFIS which returns fingerprints results in seconds, not days, weeks or months. It basically boils down to police departments flouting the law by giving firearms applications low priority, understaffing and/or personal political agendas of CLEO's and using the court decision as their get-out-of-jail-free card. If this system is to continue to be used we need transparency that allows us to see where our application is, within the process, at any given point in time.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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And of course the statute doesn't say anything about how soon after the application has been filed a PD has to request the information they need.

"Gee... didn't I request that info 12 weeks ago? Must have forgot. I'll get right on that. Maybe."

I remember when I applied for my first FID and permits the local PD asked me "What do you want a handgun for?", then stonewalled me for over three months. The last (9th) call I made went like this:

Me: I'm calling about my permits I submitted three months ago.

PD: You'll have to speak to the detective. He's not here right now.

Me: This has been going on for three months and I'm getting no explanations. I want to speak with the chief, and if he's not in I'll come down to the station and wait for him.

PD: (pause) Hold on a second. (longer pause) They'll be ready to pick up tomorrow.

Me: Thank you, I'll be in to get them. (hang up) *#^*)@(&^$*)@(!

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I believe the gist of the decision is that the 30 day clock doesn't start until all the information, needed by the issuing authority to make the issue/not issue decision, is in hand.
This is totally disingenuous since the process is not transparent and the applicant has no way of knowing whether the info is in hand, and two, the decision was rendered based on the time taken for the fingerprint check. At the time of the decision that was done manually. We now have AFIS which returns fingerprints results in seconds, not days, weeks or months. It basically boils down to police departments flouting the law by giving firearms applications low priority, understaffing and/or personal political agendas of CLEO's and using the court decision as their get-out-of-jail-free card. If this system is to continue to be used we need transparency that allows us to see where our application is, within the process, at any given point in time.
Adios,
Pizza Bob
Excellent Points. Also seems like another good lawsuit for the 2A organizations to file based on changes in technology from previous decision.

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7 minutes ago, 45Doll said:

.....

Me: Thank you, I'll be in to get them. (hang up) *#^*)@(&^$*)@(!

I like this version better. >

Quote

.....

Me: Thank you, I'll be in to get them. *#^*)@(&^$*)@(! (hang up)

 

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Back in August I moved to Mount Holly. I've decided not to pursue CoA for my FID. I will vote with my feet finally in the summer when my lease is up here and cross the bridge. However, if NJ2AS is still pursuing these clowns, check this out:

http://www.twp.mountholly.nj.us/content/386/384/408/1313.aspx

First if you see they send a letter of reference to your employer. Second, they outright state on the website process will take a MINIMUM of 3 months! Can't wait to get out of this armpit.

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Back in August I moved to Mount Holly. I've decided not to pursue CoA for my FID. I will vote with my feet finally in the summer when my lease is up here and cross the bridge. However, if NJ2AS is still pursuing these clowns, check this out:
http://www.twp.mountholly.nj.us/content/386/384/408/1313.aspx
First if you see they send a letter of reference to your employer. Second, they outright state on the website process will take a MINIMUM of 3 months! Can't wait to get out of this armpit.


Arrogant SOB’s. I wish just one town was sued successfully for violation of the few rights we DO have, so these others fall into line.


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In the instructions in the packet you get from Kingwood Barracks it explains that your application can be returned if your hand writing is sloppy. 

And let’s not forget the NJSP load of crap about picking up their mail. 

If we can track a package online then why not this process?

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In the instructions in the packet you get from Kingwood Barracks it explains that your application can be returned if your hand writing is sloppy. 
And let’s not forget the NJSP load of crap about picking up their mail. 
If we can track a package online then why not this process?


I’m surprised they still accept hand-written applications: Bayonne started demanding them typed several years ago.

If former Assemblyman Jason O’Donnell wins the upcoming mayoral election there, you can expect more roadblocks to be placed in the way of applicants.


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what's with the typing requirement? how the hell do you even go about doing it? buy an old typewriter at a yard sale? i don't see any way of doing it on a pc. has to be illegal...
Adobe Acrobat is how you do it on a PC. However I do find the demand for typed to be discriminatory towards older citizens. No chance my father could figure out how to type his application. It's also an additional requirement that law strictly prohibits.

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And this state wonders why the  iron pipeline is in full flow, the bull shit paperwork

and why millions of dollars leave this state with people exiting new jersey for better states.

Next will be a certified letter that your nor a medicinal weed user

 

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Quick question regarding the FID process. After you do the background check and make that payment, I know there still is a $5 payment required by the issuing police department. Do you pay that when you pick up the FID or before? I have not been able to get any answers from the local PD regarding this during the shutdown.

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31 minutes ago, Spawne32 said:

Quick question regarding the FID process. After you do the background check and make that payment, I know there still is a $5 payment required by the issuing police department. Do you pay that when you pick up the FID or before? I have not been able to get any answers from the local PD regarding this during the shutdown.

My local PD said that I would pay when I went to pick up my ID assuming I was approved. He also mentioned a considerable back log so I am not hopeful that this will be happening anytime soon.

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6 minutes ago, CF1782 said:

My local PD said that I would pay when I went to pick up my ID assuming I was approved. He also mentioned a considerable back log so I am not hopeful that this will be happening anytime soon.

Yeh I figured as much. They were saying 10-12 months before the shutdown, I imagine its well over a year now.

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21 hours ago, Spawne32 said:

Yeh I figured as much. They were saying 10-12 months before the shutdown, I imagine its well over a year now.

That is unacceptable. Report this to the ANJRPC's Strikeforce.

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1 hour ago, Pizza Bob said:

That is unacceptable. Report this to the ANJRPC's Strikeforce.

I don't know what acceptable is at this point, especially during the coronavirus shutdown. You really think I would get anywhere with that?

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