SOmerset County considers police consolidation

[kenw 293]

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I don't really know if this is a good thing or not. I don't have the detailed understanding of Law Enforcement that many here do, but I think that local and neighborhood policing plays an important part in law enforcement and crime prevention.

 

Would this mean that every municipality would have to have identical sets of laws and local ordinances?

Would local departments be disbanded and their personnel retrained in the new, countywide laws?

Would local municipal taxes go down while county taxes rise an equivalent amount?

Would there still be local "constabularies", who would hold responsibility for low level enforcement?

 

So many questions.

[djg0770 481]

There are several towns in NJ that have no local PD. They rely on the state to provide that service.

 

My cousin grew up in rural CT. His town (not exactly a tiny town) had no local PD. When his grandmother passed, they called the "local state trooper". I do not recall that they had an inordinate number of "problems" because there was essentially no police force. Somehow, even though there was not an obvious police presence people still paid attention to speed limits, stop signs, etc.

 

Certainly the largest portion of our taxes in NJ are education related. The consolidation of school districts into county districts would effectively reduce the necessity for so many levels of management that salary costs would be reduced.

[NJdiverTony 27]

There are several towns in NJ that have no local PD. They rely on the state to provide that service.

 

My cousin grew up in rural CT. His town (not exactly a tiny town) had no local PD. When his grandmother passed, they called the "local state trooper". I do not recall that they had an inordinate number of "problems" because there was essentially no police force. Somehow, even though there was not an obvious police presence people still paid attention to speed limits, stop signs, etc.

 

Certainly the largest portion of our taxes in NJ are education related. The consolidation of school districts into county districts would effectively reduce the necessity for so many levels of management that salary costs would be reduced.

 

The town I live in, is this way. It's a small town, so we do not have a PD, and the State Police services our town. Crime isn't an issue, since we're in a somewhat rural area and our town is so tiny. Most people seem to respect and obey the speed limits, stop signs and etc... but I could only imagine that if we were in a more densely populated area, or in a more urban area, that crime and other problems would definitely be an issue that would require more police presence.

 

I think what Somerset County is thinking about doing is a good thing, as I see this similar process used in my line of work pretty often. Consolidation of departments and finding synergies that will allow you to streamline operations, and reduce costs, while allowing you to provide high levels of service to your customers (in this case the "customers" are the citizens of the county), is a win-win.

[GoNRA 12]

plus if your town doesn't have a good place to eat, you can go to other towns to grab something awesome instead of another day at WaWa or whatever.

[RecessedFilter 222]

I can speak a little bit about this, from my general understanding of county consolidation. They have been thinking about this for some time, and it's not just Somerset County. Numerous counties in NJ have been looking at it.

 

Unfortunately, I have to go to work right now so I will post up later tonight.

 

P.s. - really quickly, I will say that there are numerous problems to a consolidation of this sort, especially in Somerset Cty. Many officer's in that county are not agreeing with the consolidation. I'll talk later about it.

Edited December 14, 2010 by RecessedFilter

[Jon 264]

While Police consolidation may save money, it will cost the public dearly in response time and the quality of that response. Stick to consolidating school systems, as mentioned, since that will yield the greatest reduction in spending.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

It's about time NJ took a step into the 20th and 21st centuries... in almost every other state in this country, policing is done by the county level. Only in cities do you see their own dedicated police forces.

 

Frankly, NJ could stand for a redrawing of many areas to properly classify urban zones, suburban, and rural zones. But good luck with that!

[djg0770 481]

Lemme throw a big ole log on the fire. This from a marketing email I received today.

 

 

The federal government is, first and foremost, a business. They spend more than $43 million per hour. Now, more than ever, the federal government is seeking more sources for its needs, due to the economic stimulus plan set in place by President Obama. The government is in need of companies that offer greater efficiency, better performance, better pricing, more progressive technology and delivery methods than it currently has. Your company may be what the government is looking for. And the best way to become a preferred supplier to the federal government and make more money is to get on a GSA schedule.

 

That's 1.032 BILLION dollars per day.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I'm not really interested in consolidating anything, for the most part our system works. One of the biggest issues we face is not the way we run our municipalities and schools, but its the money trail. I'm all for lowering taxes and getting rid of positions that just waste money. However, i don't see how this is going to do anything. Im more interested in getting rid of the real money pits, you know the millions and even billions of dollars we loose each and ever year, that green stuff that just vanishes like a fart in the wind. We could solve 90% of NJ's economic burdens if we knew where all the money went, the we could actually afford to pay these people that keep us on top of the list of standards for one of the best states to live in.

 

Im one of those people that knows why our taxes are so high, basically ~50% of it is stolen before it even hits the cops and teachers.

 

Dunno if you guys remember this but Christie lost the federal support for the 2010 school year becuase he wasn't able to provide the Obama adm. the 2009 fiscal year budget.... THEN LIED ABOUT IT! i dont blame obama's people for not giving us the money either, i wouldnt give us money either!

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I'm not really interested in consolidating anything, for the most part our system works. One of the biggest issues we face is not the way we run our municipalities and schools, but its the money trail. I'm all for lowering taxes and getting rid of positions that just waste money. However, i don't see how this is going to do anything. Im more interested in getting rid of the real money pits, you know the millions and even billions of dollars we loose each and ever year, that green stuff that just vanishes like a fart in the wind. We could solve 90% of NJ's economic burdens if we knew where all the money went, the we could actually afford to pay these people that keep us on top of the list of standards for one of the best states to live in.

 

Im one of those people that knows why our taxes are so high, basically ~50% of it is stolen before it even hits the cops and teachers.

 

Dunno if you guys remember this but Christie lost the federal support for the 2010 school year becuase he wasn't able to provide the Obama adm. the 2009 fiscal year budget.... THEN LIED ABOUT IT! i dont blame obama's people for not giving us the money either, i wouldnt give us money either!

 

Our system doesn't work. How many damned police departments do we need for all our towns and municipalities? Just make a county police and be done with it.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Our system doesn't work. How many damned police departments do we need for all our towns and municipalities? Just make a county police and be done with it.

 

I suppose we should make the fire and ambulance dept.s county as well. I'm sorry but i just see way to many problems with this idea. In essence, if every town had an emergency at the same time, which is possible, then how do u expect them to take care of all the calls. If you get into an accident, do you want to wait an hour just for a cop to get there, cause he was busy doing something else. Then u have the problem of prioritizing, will all the cops be to busy taking care of calls, no cops actually patrolling the streets, or doing safety details at work sites. If one thing were to set off a cascade, it would be every man for himself. Not to mention the towns that boarder really bad areas like mine, the local PD deture a lot of burglaries and break-ins, with the thought of 1 cop being in the town whats to stop these people from flooding the town? nothing really. I'm fine with getting rid of cops, but they better replace the loss of cops with the ability to shoot trespassers, no questions asked, and open up the CCW permits.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I suppose we should make the fire and ambulance dept.s county as well. I'm sorry but i just see way to many problems with this idea. In essence, if every town had an emergency at the same time, which is possible, then how do u expect them to take care of all the calls. If you get into an accident, do you want to wait an hour just for a cop to get there, cause he was busy doing something else. Then u have the problem of prioritizing, will all the cops be to busy taking care of calls, no cops actually patrolling the streets, or doing safety details at work sites. If one thing were to set off a cascade, it would be every man for himself. Not to mention the towns that boarder really bad areas like mine, the local PD deture a lot of burglaries and break-ins, with the thought of 1 cop being in the town whats to stop these people from flooding the town? nothing really. I'm fine with getting rid of cops, but they better replace the loss of cops with the ability to shoot trespassers, no questions asked, and open up the CCW permits.

 

Just because you centralize, doesn't mean you give up on manpower. So instead of having 10 little fiefdoms, you'll have one main policing organization subdivided into areas of responsibility.

 

It's been done before... almost everywhere else in this country.

[halbautomatisch 60]

There are a lot of towns in NJ with very small PD's. Most of them do not have coverage 24/7. If a countywide system were developed these towns would benefit since they may have only one cop on duty at a time when they have coverage at all. The SP is spread too thin to pick up this slack.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Just because you centralize, doesn't mean you give up on manpower. So instead of having 10 little fiefdoms, you'll have one main policing organization subdivided into areas of responsibility.

 

It's been done before... almost everywhere else in this country.

 

Maybe im just one of those, I'll believe it when i see it kinda people. I don't have high hopes for NJ policies. I do understand what your saying, and it could work, like you said many other places have this centralization in place already, but then again there not NJ. The idea here is to cut spending, i'd like to know where they plan on doing that, first and most noticeable is the reduction in municipality spending(what it costs to keep the building up and running). completely understandable. But they even mentioned a reduction in 85 cops...which is what worries me. The counties would have the ability to fire and hire as they please, which leaves the individual towns at the mercy of the county. My primary concern is the fact that NJ is so condensed, and different towns have to assess where they need the most policing, with the county calling the shots, they will decided whether a town is worth protecting or how much resources it will get, u can be sure it will be decided politically.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

There are a lot of towns in NJ with very small PD's. Most of them do not have coverage 24/7. If a countywide system were developed these towns would benefit since they may have only one cop on duty at a time when they have coverage at all. The SP is spread too thin to pick up this slack.

 

But then you have this socialist perspective.... am i paying for someone elses security? Is the money which was supposed to be spent on my protection now being spent on someone elses? I'm not saying this is a socialist movement by any standards, just lifting a brow is all.

[GoNRA 12]

But then you have this socialist perspective.... am i paying for someone elses security? Is the money which was supposed to be spent on my protection now being spent on someone elses? I'm not saying this is a socialist movement by any standards, just lifting a brow is all.

 

we already have that, it's called the abbot districts.

[GRIZ 3,369]

They have been thinking about this for some time, and it's not just Somerset County. Numerous counties in NJ have been looking at it

 

They were talking about regionalizing police departments when I was in the police academy in 1974. Not a new idea. One of the problems is that to be most efficient the police departments would have to "regionalize" which wouldn't necessarily follow county lines. Regions would be established in relation to crime rates, geography, and other factors.

 

I lived in MD in the early 80s. Many small towns with low crime rates on the Eastern Shore wanted their own local law enforcement but couldn't afford a police department. The town would hire a "resident trooper" from the MD State Police. the town wopuld pay the trooper's salary, benefits, vehicle expenses, etc and the trooper's primary responsibility would be that town.

[RecessedFilter 222]

After a long day at work, I'm too tired to start typing a lot on this subject. I was planning to, but then lost desire haha.

 

A lot of departments think it will 'save money,' that is their basis for this consolidation. Something like this is going to take lots and lots and lots of money first off. Will it pay back? Eh, possibly.

 

I see a lot more disadvantages then advantages, for Somerset County consolidation specifically.

 

Aspects such as, but not limited to, community policing (generally speaking, there's not much CP in SC), response time, citizen-police relationships, and job losses are just some of the things that will be affected. Some think these will be positively affected, while others believe they will be affected negatively.

 

Then you have issues such as the job losses, the supervisory/high ranking positions, money (that's a big one) that I am looking forward to in seeing how they plan on handling that. Will a 10 year Patrolman making $80k in his local dept be kept on that salary during a consolidation? Most likely not, and that means A LOT of frustrated cops when they find out they will be making much less money than usual.

 

There are so many aspects, issues, pro's/con's to talk about that it is endless. I just wanted to shed some light on what I hear numerous officer's talking about.

[RecessedFilter 222]

And a major issue is change, which I did not mention. A lot of the officer's I have talked to DO NOT want change. They want and have wanted to work for a local PD, not state or federal, and getting switched to a county-wide department seems to make them nervous. Most like things the way they are now.

[Tosser 61]

It does save money.

 

Bulk purchasing of uniforms, cars, guns, ammo everything.

 

Cheaper cost for insurance as a group.

 

Less "bosses" and more officers.

 

Example. My county has 24 towns. Of those 24 towns two are considated into one department. So 23 police departments. 23 departs have 23 chiefs. each making 80-150k a year. so 80,000x23 = 1,840,000...just for the chiefs w/ current system.

 

Figure a county would have on chief...making 200k... saves tax payers 1.64 million off the bat.

 

Its about money. Response times would remain the same or improve in some areas.

 

 

 

Regionalization works. Works in Gloucester County currently w/ Dispatch (centralized police/fire/ems) and County EMS has been functional in 1/2 the county for three years.

 

 

The officers don't want change because they don't want to loose their sweetheart contracts... It's about service for the taxpayers...

[djg0770 481]

Pluses and minuses exist in any situation. One of the problems I see is that if they force consolidation but limit it to county lines then we have other issues. Please consider also that Sheriff (county police) is an elected position and as such is extremely political. Local PD chief is not "elected". If NJ went to a system where Sheriff was not elected and local chiefs were eliminated... I wonder though how it would be in Passaic county where you have Paterson and then all the other local towns. Would the thrust of a county wide system be focused nearly entirely on the "Problem City" ignoring the smaller towns because less crime occurs there?

 

I have been recently extremely disappointed in my town. The local paper has begun publishing some of the more high profile arrests in town - lots of heavy drug offenses lately.

 

However, consolidation will eliminate some management positions which seem to be redundant. I don't think anyone is discussing RIF's for boots on the ground guys. Furthermore, having a larger pool of officers to draw from would be an asset in some situations. But I think to some extent this already exists (do PD's have mutual aid like FD's and EMS do?)

[JackDaWack 2,895]

 

 

However, consolidation will eliminate some management positions which seem to be redundant. I don't think anyone is discussing RIF's for boots on the ground guys. Furthermore, having a larger pool of officers to draw from would be an asset in some situations. But I think to some extent this already exists (do PD's have mutual aid like FD's and EMS do?)

They have inter municipality support, meaning they can call on neighboring towns for help, In the past 10 years or so i can say that many towns in my area have done this to break up large crowds/fights. I can recall one specifically that happened recently over at Ramapo College when an enormous fight broke out on campus. I believe at least 3 towns responded as well as the suffern PD, which is part of NY. So they help each other out regardless of judicial lines.