Preventing the next Brian Aitken. How should the possession laws be changed?

[Bob B 103]

NJ2AS would like to hear your suggestions on how the firearm possession laws should be changed to prevent the next Brian Aitken.

 

Let's start with the current scheme.

 

2C:39-5. Unlawful possession of weapons. a. Machine guns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession a machine gun or any instrument or device adaptable for use as a machine gun, without being licensed to do so as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-5, is guilty of a crime of the second degree.

 

b.Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree if the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. Otherwise it is a crime of the second degree.

 

c.Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

(2)Unless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

Requirements (working list):

1. A law-abiding citizen must be able to transport any firearm unloaded, locked in the trunk, for any lawful purpose.

2. The law must protect the law-abiding while maintaining stiff penalties for criminals.

3. Must get rid of or somehow render harmless the "directly to and from the range" and "only those stops that are reasonably necessary under the circumstances" clauses.

[Springfield1911 22]

Don't cry to your overly worried mother about your problems. Keep them to yourself.

 

NJ2AS would like to hear your suggestions on how the firearm possession laws should be changed to prevent the next Brian Aitken.

 

Let's start with the current scheme.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

I'd recommend:

 

- without a valid CCW permit - firearms can be transported without limitation to all areas where they are legal (not on school property, not on court property, etc.) Owner must be in the vehicle at all times that they are traveling and they must be unloaded and stored in a locked/fastened container. Ammo must be in a separate container

 

- with a valid CCW permit - firearms can be transported loaded and accessible, but must be not be visible to any observer outside the vehicle. CCW permit holder/owner must be in the vehicle with the firearms at all times that the vehicle is traveling.

 

No restriction on transportation of ammunition, including hollow points, as long as it is not loaded into a firearm or in the same container as a firearm (except for CCW permit holders).

[Genewarper111 18]

The problem is definitely the "directly to.. directly from" terminology, coupled with the "reasonable detours" clause. These two things produce a subjective opinion scenario for every police officer who is confronted with the knowledge that a person has a gun in their car. This in turn, when set against the "presumptively illegal other than by exception" nature of he NJ law (and god knows what in the AC...), means that there is always high potential for arrest of (otherwise) law-abiding, legal firearms owners.

 

SO I would like to see conditions under which it is legal to transport one's firearms in one's car, period - stop offs for lunch be danged. I'd willingly accept having to keep my pistols locked in a case in the trunk, if I could cary them to work, do a day's work, then go to the range in the evening.

 

Good luck Bob

G

[GRIZ 3,369]

Hollow points and magazine capacity are seperate issues from the transportation of firearms.

 

In order to have change it should be palatable to all sides. Rather than try to reinvent the wheel the transportation requirements of the Firearms Owner's Protection Act would be reasonable (unloaded inaccessible from passenger compartment or locked container/gun lock). If the gun is unloaded and properly contained you could leave it in your car forever.

 

Arguments for this would be:

 

1. Meets requirements of Federal law.

 

2. Meets requirements of at least 80% of the states.

[axeman_g 128]

You know what.... I say scrap it all and go simple. The only concession I make is to the FID card, which I dont think is that bad of an idea. At least it makes people take a safety course. you will notice no exceptions, nor arbritary limitations.

 

This list was lifted almost verbatim from the Texas Gun Laws. As they say... plagiarism is the most sincere form of flattery.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

A NJ resident, if not otherwise precluded by law, may purchase rifles and shotguns, ammunition, reloading components, or firearms accessories in contiguous states as long as the posses a NJ Firearms ID Card.

 

It is unlawful to sell, rent, loan or give a handgun to any person if it is known that the person intends to use it unlawfully.

 

It is unlawful to knowingly sell, rent, give or offer to sell, rent or give any firearm to a person under 18 years of age, without the written consent of his parent or guardian.

 

It is unlawful to knowingly or recklessly sell any firearm or ammunition to any person who is intoxicated.

 

Possession

No state license is required to possess a rifle, shotgun or handgun.

 

There are restrictions on possession by a person:

 

* Convicted of a felony or a Class A misdemeanor involving the person’s family or household.

* Or subject to certain orders issued under the Family Code or Code of Criminal Procedure.

 

Carry

A person commits an offense of unlawfully carrying a weapon if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun on or about his or her person unless the person is on one’s own premise or premises under the person’s control or inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person’s control.

 

It is unlawful to intentionally, knowingly or recklessly carry on or about one’s person a handgun in a motor vehicle if the handgun is in plain view or the person is engaged in criminal activity (other than a misdemeanor traffic violation), prohibited by law from possessing a firearm or is a member of a street gang.

 

A person applying for a license to carry a concealed handgun must apply by obtaining a request for application materials from a handgun dealer, the NJ State Police, or any other person approved by the department.

 

The NJ State Police shall review all applications materials and make a preliminary determination as to whether or not the individual is qualified to receive a handgun license.

 

The Department will forward application materials to qualified applicants, or send written notification with the reasons that that the preliminary review indicates the individual is not qualified to receive a license.

 

On receipt of the application materials a criminal history record check is conducted by the Department of Public Safety. The Department must issue or deny the license within 60 days of receipt of the completed application.

 

The Department must be notified within 30 days of a name or address change.

 

A new license expires on the first birthday of the license holder occurring after the fourth anniversary of the date of issuance.

 

A renewed license expires on the license holder’s birthday, five years after the date of expiration of the previous license.

 

The applicant must submit:

 

* A completed application form.

 

* Two Recent Color Passport Photographs.

 

* Fingerprints.

 

* Proof of age (at least 21).

 

* Proof of residency in NJ.

 

* A handgun proficiency certificate from a qualified handgun instructor.

 

* An affidavit stating that applicant has read and understands the law concerning a license to carry and the laws on use of deadly force and that the applicant fulfills all eligibility requirements.

 

* And an authorization to access records.

 

 

The Department shall issue a license to carry a concealed handgun to an applicant if the applicant meets all the eligibility requirements and submits all the application materials.

 

Eligibility requirements include no record of felonies, certain misdemeanors, addictions, mental illness or delinquency in child support payments or tax payments.

 

A person applying for a concealed carry license must successfully complete both the classroom and range components of the handgun proficiency course to receive a handgun proficiency certificate.

 

The handgun proficiency certificate must be no more than two years old and shall specify if it is valid for a revolver or semi-auto pistol based on the proficiency certificate.

 

The Department will issue a license to carry only for the categories of firearms listed on the handgun proficiency certificate. A person who is renewing a license to carry a concealed handgun must renew their handgun proficiency certificate.

 

The NJ State Police by rule shall establish a procedure for a person who is a legal resident of a state that does not provide for the issuance of a license to carry a concealed handgun, to obtain a NJ license.

 

A non-resident applicant is required to pay a fee for the criminal history record check and investigation. Such permits remain valid until expiration and can be renewed until the other state issues a license recognized as a valid license in NJ.

 

It is unlawful for a handgun license holder to carry a handgun on the premises of:

 

* A government court.

 

* A business that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of alcohol for on-premises consumption.

 

* A school or educational institution, high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event that is taking place.

 

* A hospital or nursing home.

 

* An amusement park.

 

* A place of religious worship.

 

* A polling place on the day of an election.

 

* A meeting of a governing body.

 

* A race track.

 

* A secured area of an airport.

 

* A correctional facility.

 

* A correctional facility or within 1000 feet of such, on the day of an execution.

 

* The property of another after receiving notice that concealed handguns are forbidden on that property.

 

* It is unlawful to possess a firearm in a penal institution.

 

* It is unlawful for a handgun license holder to carry a handgun while intoxicated.

 

* It is unlawful for a handgun license holder to carry a handgun and intentionally fail to conceal the handgun.

 

Antique or curio guns manufactured before 1899 and replicas thereof which do not use rim fire or center fire ammunition are not included in the definition of "firearm" as it is used in NJ State Law, which governs weapons.

 

Machine Guns

It is unlawful to possess, manufacture, transport, repair or sell a machine gun, explosive weapon, short-barreled firearm, or silencer.

 

Federal registration of such an item under the National Firearms Act is a defense to this prohibition.

 

Miscellaneous

A violation of the state’s firearms laws that occurs within 300 feet of a school or on premises where a school function is taking place shall result in an increased punishment.

 

It is unlawful to display a firearm in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm.

 

It is unlawful to discharge a firearm in a public place or on or across a public road.

 

A municipality may not adopt regulations relating to the transfer, private ownership, keeping, transportation, license or registration of firearms, ammunition, or firearms supplies.

 

It is unlawful to possess, manufacture, transport, repair or sell a zip gun (i.e. a device not originally a firearm that is adapted to expel a projectile using an explosion or burning substance.)

 

A person commits an offense if a child under 17 gains access to a readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal negligence failed to secure it or left it in a place to which the person knew or should have known the child would gain access.

 

It is an affirmative defense if the access was supervised by a person older than 18 and was for:

 

* Hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes.

 

* Consisted of lawful defense of people or property.

 

* Was gained by entering property unlawfully.

 

* Or occurred during a time when the actor was engaged in an agricultural enterprise.

 

 

A municipality, county or other subdivision of the state may not bring suit against a firearms or ammunition manufacturer, trade association, or seller for recovery of damages resulting from, or injunctive relief or abatement of a nuisance relating to, the lawful design, manufacture, marketing, or sale of firearms or ammunition to the public.

[Downr@nge 22]

2C:39-5. Unlawful possession of weapons. a. Machine guns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession a machine gun or any instrument or device adaptable for use as a machine gun, without being licensed to do so as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-5, is guilty of a crime of the second degree.

 

b.Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having gone through a NICS CHECK, the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree. if the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. Otherwise it is a crime of the second degree.

 

c.Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a PETTY OFFENSE not punishable by more than a fine of $500 and a personal prohibition on firearms for a period of 6 months. of the third degree.

 

(2)Unless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

In addition, I'd add, fully remove any part of NJ law that prohibits people from traveling around the state with a firearm inaccessible in their vehicle to places OTHER THAN the range, gunsmith, or gunshow. In other words, NJ residents should be able to transport their firearms wherever they see fit throughout NJ with no prohibition other than sensitive places (and thats only if that is their destination).

 

Furthermore, GET RID OF THE WHOLE NJ PERMIT SCHEME COMPLETELY!!! A Drivers license and a NICS check is PLENTY SUFFICIENT!!! Why do police officials have so much say in regards to our rights when it comes to firearms???

 

 

[Downr@nge 22]

Originally posted by, jbirch (from NJCSD Forums)

 

Van Drew and Sweeney need to be made to understand that putting a bandaid on NJ gun laws simply won't work. Trying to fix or expand the existing exemptions won't do it. However, I think we need to assume that they won't be willing to entertain eliminating the purchase permit process. IMHO, a realistic "ask" would be:

1. Revamp the permit system so that one permit is applied for and issued once, which then covers all purchases of all firearms, subject to NICS checks. The purchase permitting system was not an issue in the Aitken case, so perhaps Sweeney isn't even thinking about it.

2. Delete the provision that makes it illegal to posses a handgun without a permit to carry. Ownership/possession of a firearm should be presumptively legal, as long as the firearm was (1) purchased legally in another state or (2) purchased in NJ in accordance with the statute. Only the carrying of a loaded firearm (ie with ammunition loaded in the firearm) on one's person should require a separate carry permit.

3. Fix the carry permit system to make it shall issue, with training requirements.

 

Makes a WHOLE lot of sense.

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

Preventing the next Brian Aitken. How should the possession laws be changed?

hmm

allow large capacity magazines..

[e80hydro 120]

How about, as long as they're my legaly owned pistols, I've proven I'm not a bad guy by passing a NIC's check, they're unloaded and seperate from my ammunition, it's none of the states goddam business where I'm going to or coming from. Thats until they issue me my permit to carry, after I've passed a pistol class and filed and paid a reasonable cost for my permit to carry. Then I'm carrying it on my person loaded, if I so choose.

 

 

Additionaly, I think an unloaded mini-14 would look great in the gun rack thats already in the back window of my pickup truck. The fully loaded 30 round magazine would be in the glove box next to my registration and insurance cards.

[Bob B 103]

Don't cry to your overly worried mother about your problems. Keep them to yourself.

 

Good safety tip!

 

 

The problem is definitely the "directly to.. directly from" terminology, coupled with the "reasonable detours" clause. These two things produce a subjective opinion scenario for every police officer who is confronted with the knowledge that a person has a gun in their car. This in turn, when set against the "presumptively illegal other than by exception" nature of he NJ law (and god knows what in the AC...), means that there is always high potential for arrest of (otherwise) law-abiding, legal firearms owners.

 

SO I would like to see conditions under which it is legal to transport one's firearms in one's car, period - stop offs for lunch be danged. I'd willingly accept having to keep my pistols locked in a case in the trunk, if I could cary them to work, do a day's work, then go to the range in the evening.

 

Good luck Bob (Thanks Grant).

G

 

This seems to be a common thread. Thanks for the ideas. Keep 'em coming.

[Genewarper111 18]

 

This seems to be a common thread. Thanks for the ideas. Keep 'em coming.

 

And I just realised - there has to be absolutely no transferred or reach through liability to the gun owner if the car is stolen while you're in (say) Chickie and Pete's on your way back from Dix, or parked outside CM while buying ammo, or whatever. Yup.. liability.. hmmm.......

 

Like I said, good luck, Bob

G

[kenw 293]

It's a tough line to move.

 

Let's assume that the goal of the laws is to keep as many guns out of the hands of criminals as possible. Even if it inconveniences legal gun owners who are simply going about their legal lives.

 

If the law changes to eliminate the travel (origin and destination) restrictions, and someone stops for lunch in Newark on the way back from the range with a trunkful of Glocks, and some miscreant boosts the car out of the parking lot, it'll be like winning Lotto. There'll be more guns on the streets, more people will be robbed, raped, killed, the original owners will have a bunch of 'splaining to do, and nobody wins (not true, the scumbags win).

 

Our new found freedom will have become a victim of The Law Of Unintended Consequences, and the outcry for stricter and more onerous gun legislation will begin anew.

 

I don't know what the answer is. The laws have to become flexible enough to protect the legal gun owners from an occasional oversight or unforeseen situation while staying true to the purpose of reducing gun violence. Maybe a little more discretion and a bit more education on the part of LE should be the first thing to consider.

[GRIZ 3,369]

You know what.... I say scrap it all and go simple. The only concession I make is to the FID card, which I dont think is that bad of an idea. At least it makes people take a safety course. you will notice no exceptions, nor arbritary limitations.

 

This list was lifted almost verbatim from the Texas Gun Laws. As they say... plagiarism is the most sincere form of flattery..........design, manufacture, marketing, or sale of firearms or ammunition to the public.

 

Aitken was charged with illegal possession of firearm (due to transportation), hi cap magazines, and hollowpoints.

 

You start out well by saying go simple but go on to address CCW, NFA weapons and other issues. Copying Texas gun laws just goes to show that because Tx is a gun friendly state doesn't mean all their laws are sensible. You list all those places that carry is prohibited in TX. In NJ there is only two by law for people with a permit, schools and courthouses. Any place else can keep you out as private property. It's up to the property owner to decide if they want you carrying or not. If they don't want me having a beer at Great Adventure while carrying they won't let me in (they won't let off duty LEOs carry there now).

 

To make it simple:

 

1. Adopt provisions of FOPA as I stated in my earlier post.

 

2. Change the hollowpoint and hi cap magazine laws by adding "during the commission of a crime".

 

I could live with that.

[Bob B 103]

It's a tough line to move.

 

Let's assume that the goal of the laws is to keep as many guns out of the hands of criminals as possible. Even if it inconveniences legal gun owners who are simply going about their legal lives.

 

If the law changes to eliminate the travel (origin and destination) restrictions, and someone stops for lunch in Newark on the way back from the range with a trunkful of Glocks, and some miscreant boosts the car out of the parking lot, it'll be like winning Lotto. There'll be more guns on the streets, more people will be robbed, raped, killed, the original owners will have a bunch of 'splaining to do, and nobody wins (not true, the scumbags win).

 

Our new found freedom will have become an victim of The Law Of Unintended Consequences, and the outcry for stricter and more onerous gun legislation will begin anew.

 

I don't know what the answer is. The laws have to become flexible enough to protect the legal gun owners from an occasional oversight or unforeseen situation while staying true to the purpose of reducing gun violence. Maybe a little more discretion and a bit more education on the part of LE should be the first thing to consider.

 

 

That's a good point. I'm going to add that, but worded a bit differently.

[XDJohnTact 49]

You know what.... I say scrap it all and go simple. The only concession I make is to the FID card, which I don't think is that bad of an idea. At least it makes people take a safety course. you will notice no exceptions, nor arbitrary limitations.

 

Really? I have owned guns and have been shooting since I was 13 years old and have never taken any type of gun class? They never asked that when I got my FID Card?

[halbautomatisch 60]

Diddo, except several hunter ed classes.

 

And the Texas law only allows purchase of long guns in contiguous states, why limit us to that? We don't have that limitation now.

[mipafox 438]

For starters, keep the laws the same and just remove "justifiable need" from the NJ Permit to Carry Handgun laws.

 

Very clean and simple.

 

Start there. Then you don't have to worry about vehicle transport laws at all. 44 states are "shall issue" in practice, even though a few of those are officially listed as "may issue."

[JackDaWack 2,895]

For starters, keep the laws the same and just remove "justifiable need" from the NJ Permit to Carry Handgun laws.

 

Very clean and simple.

 

Start there. Then you don't have to worry about vehicle transport laws at all. 44 states are "shall issue" in practice, even though a few of those are officially listed as "may issue."

Doesnt quite work like that. A CCW in NJ i believe is for pistols.

 

We need an overhaul on all the laws, get rid of anything that makes guns owners criminals(exemptions don't count since you have to prove your exempt), and your inherently a criminal until you prove otherwise(not exactly innocent until proven guilty). Secondly, i don't see how NJ can deny people the right to carry, this is either a carry state or it isn't, i would rather no one carries a gun in this state, then have the crooked politicians be the only ones to protect themselves. In theory 'justifiable need" isnt that bad, but apparently the state doesn't view self defense as a justifiable need.

 

Honestly, i dont have time right now, but i could just copy and paste florida laws, and 40 of the other ones, but i think most people get the point...why can't we find some middle ground with this state..

[mipafox 438]

Doesnt quite work like that. A CCW in NJ i believe is for pistols.

 

It works exactly like that. Remove "justifiable need" and now you have Permit to Carry a Handgun.

 

It is for "pistols," but it's called a PCH. You can already carry rifles with FID.

 

I can't carry loaded rifles in my car in PA. You believe that? Unless they are machineguns or Short Barreled Rifles. Which most people don't have. So, YEAH, pistols would be good. You could defend yourself. Or not get sent to prison for 7 years because one is in your trunk at your home.

 

We need an overhaul on all the laws, get rid of anything that makes guns owners criminals(exemptions don't count since you have to prove your exempt), and your inherently a criminal until you prove otherwise(not exactly innocent until proven guilty). Secondly, i don't see how NJ can deny people the right to carry, this is either a carry state or it isn't, i would rather no one carries a gun in this state, then have the crooked politicians be the only ones to protect themselves.

 

Good luck! I'll be keeping my fingers crossed but not holding my breath.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

It works exactly like that. Remove "justifiable need" and now you have Permit to Carry a Handgun.

 

It is for "pistols," but it's called a PCH. You can already carry rifles with FID.

 

I can't carry loaded rifles in my car in PA. You believe that? Unless they are machineguns or Short Barreled Rifles. Which most people don't have. So, YEAH, pistols would be good. You could defend yourself. Or not get sent to prison for 7 years because one is in your trunk at your home.

 

 

 

Good luck! I'll be keeping my fingers crossed but not holding my breath.

FID= Purchaser card... i dont know where people get the idea it gives you any right to carry a rifle. Through exemptions of the law your allowed to transport them accordingly

Also you need to list the pistols on your CCW, which means if you buy after that, you need to reapply for the permit. Not to mention the fact there is still restrictions that can be put in place.

 

 

-trust me, no ones holding there breath around here, i was asked what needs to be changed, and i gave my opinion.

[mipafox 438]

FID= Purchaser card... i dont know where people get the idea it gives you any right to carry a rifle. Through exemptions of the law your allowed to transport them accordingly

 

It might be because mine says on the front License to Purchase and Carry Rifles and Shotguns and Ammunition.

 

I'm no expert on NJ gun laws. But last I checked, you can't take long guns anywhere except to the range or hunting unless you have FID. I'd be happy to be corrected to see if I need to update my FID or not.

 

Also you need to list the pistols on your CCW, which means if you buy after that, you need to reapply for the permit. Not to mention the fact there is still restrictions that can be put in place.

 

That's a very good point. Removing "justifiable need" from the Permit to Carry a Handgun would be of no use I guess. You could only CARRY A FRIGGEN HANDGUN if that were done. Or have one in your trunk and not go to jail for 7 years. You're right, those two points would make very little difference. Who wants to be able to defend themselves, anyway?

 

BTW, there is no "CCW" in NJ. Just sayin'

[vladtepes 1,060]

 

I can't carry loaded rifles in my car in PA. You believe that? Unless they are machineguns or Short Barreled Rifles. Which most people don't have. So, YEAH, pistols would be good. You could defend yourself. Or not get sent to prison for 7 years because one is in your trunk at your home.

 

 

 

I was just reading that recently..you can have a SBR with 100 round drum loaded in the car but NOT a hunting shotgun loaded.. what an odd law.. lol

[JackDaWack 2,895]

people inherit guns all the time and legally bring them to a range with out ever obtaining a FID.

 

Front of my card says "....is hereby granted permission to purchase rifles and shotguns pursuant to provisions....with amendments and supplements. I believe this is the up to date card too considering i just got it a couple months ago.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

 

 

 

 

That's a very good point. Removing "justifiable need" from the Permit to Carry a Handgun would be of no use I guess. You could only CARRY A FRIGGEN HANDGUN if that were done. Or have one in your trunk and not go to jail for 7 years. You're right, those two points would make very little difference. Who wants to be able to defend themselves, anyway?

 

BTW, there is no "CCW" in NJ. Just sayin'

I dont know where you pulled all this from...I'm kinda at a lost for words where u ended up getting this statement.

[mipafox 438]

I was just reading that recently..you can have a SBR with 100 round drum loaded in the car but NOT a hunting shotgun loaded.. what an odd law.. lol

 

It's strange indeed. Without any real research, this is the understanding I have pieced together over the years. The PA LTCF laws refer to firearms of less than 16" barrel (rifled) or shotguns less than 16" barrel. Which mirrors the NFA. Probably not a coincidence. They are considered "firearms" under the definition of this section of law, essentially handguns.

 

Loaded longarms in a car are illegal. I think that comes from a culture of hunting restrictions. But the LTCF law allows carry of SBRs, SBSs, and machineguns under LTCF. Provided machinegun barrel is under 16" rifled or 18" shotgun.

 

All gun laws are strange except for perhaps Vermont and Alaska. Everybody got their **** from the same boilerplate in the 1930s or thereabout and then people complained one way or another and they were changed. Often based on tweeks from neighboring states.

 

Unfortunately I don't have SBRs. Only machineguns. Which I rarely carry loaded in the car due to their value. Working on an SBR right now.

[Z71 4]

my gun law wish list;; these are based on someone not being prohibited...

1) FID w/photo to be shall issue, to be used for all purchase ie. long gun,handgun(age restricted),ammo...a 1 time $100 fee to cover all costs for issuance

good for life or till you become a prohibited person by current standards

2) local PD records and NCIC to be used for criminal history check only

3) eliminate personal refs, work refs, credit history...(these are arbitrary and subject to opinion as to ones worthiness)

4) conceal carry permits to be shall issue upon completetion of NRA safe handling and use of force certs.

5) FID or permit to ccw shall be issued no later than 5 bussiness days after submission of application...

6) ccw permit to be renewable every 5 yrs on date of issuance..fee for int. and renewal shall be $100 with current course training certs.

7) non ccw transportation of fire arms to be lawfull with an FID card or valid hunting lic. to be unloaded and locked per current regs.

8) ccw to be illegal in sensitve areas or other posted public places

9) consumption of drugs or alcohol while ccw'ing is prohibited..

[mipafox 438]

I dont know where you pulled all this from...I'm kinda at a lost for words where u ended up getting this statement.

 

Yeah, it's getting far from the point, let's just drop it. Arguing doesn't help anything. My bad.

[Z71 4]

almost double post sorry

[mipafox 438]

my gun law wish list;; these are based on someone not being prohibited...

1) FID w/photo to be shall issue, to be used for all purchase ie. long gun,handgun(age restricted),ammo...a 1 time $100 fee to cover all costs for issuance

good for life or till you become a prohibited person by current standards

 

No license is required to buy a firearm in PA.

 

2) local PD records and NCIC to be used for criminal history check only

3) eliminate personal refs, work refs, credit history...(these are arbitrary and subject to opinion as to ones worthiness)

 

Not required in PA.

 

4) conceal carry permits to be shall issue upon completetion of NRA safe handling and use of force certs.

 

No training or reason required in PA. Just $25.

 

5) FID or permit to ccw shall be issued no later than 5 bussiness days after submission of application...

 

No FID in PA. No such thing as CCW in NJ. LTCF in PA can take up to 45 days by law but many counties give in 15 minutes.

 

6) ccw permit to be renewable every 5 yrs on date of issuance..fee for int. and renewal shall be $100 with current course training certs.

 

There is no CCW in NJ, it is Permit to Carry a Handgun. How about this? Remove "justifiable need" from the law. You already have a simple process in place. Once you can actually carry a gun, we can tweek the process.

 

7) non ccw transportation of fire arms to be lawfull with an FID card or valid hunting lic. to be unloaded and locked per current regs.

 

No FID in PA. No need to have one in NJ. Why do you need a license to buy a gun?

 

8) ccw to be illegal in sensitve areas or other posted public places

 

Why on earth would you want that? Do you realize that you are propsing a requirement that is not currently a part of NJ law? If you have Permit to Carry a Handgun in NJ, there are no such laws as of now. Why would you propose restrictions on the right to defend yourself?

 

9) consumption of drugs or alcohol while ccw'ing is prohibited..

 

Also not currently prohibbitted under NJ law if you have Permit to Carry a Handgun. Why would you add it? If I have to have a drink at a meeting, or decide to have a few drinks with a friend, have I forfeited my right to defend myself? There are no states around here with such a law.