Jump to content
hobobluz

Authorization to Transport Handgun to a Range

Recommended Posts

Hi All,

I have NJ Firearms Purchaser ID card which says I can buy and carry rifles and shotguns in NJ. I am waiting for my FIRST time handgun purchase permit. My question is, what gives me the right to transport the handgun to a range? Will I receive another document authorizing this? Or is it just on my record as a result of the purchase? Just curious and thanks for your replies.

Dom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi All,

I have NJ Firearms Purchaser ID card which says I can buy and carry rifles and shotguns in NJ. I am waiting for my FIRST time handgun purchase permit. My question is, what gives me the right to transport the handgun to a range? Will I receive another document authorizing this? Or is it just on my record as a result of the purchase? Just curious and thanks for your replies.

Dom

 

Well, your Creator gave you the right to transport your handgun anywhere you damn well please. The 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects that right. NJ law, 2C:39-5 effectively removes that right (unless you have a permit to carry, which is impossible, pending the SAF/ANJRPC lawsuit), and 2C:39-6 says you have an exemption to 2C:39-5 if you're transporting your handgun to/from the range from/to your home, as long as you do not make any stops along the way.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The accepted safe practice is the make sure you have your FID card and a copy of your purchase permit (not required) with you and have the gun locked up and unloaded separate from the ammo. Take a direct route to and from the range. Of course as with all NJ law theres a lot of gray area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The accepted safe practice is the make sure you have your FID card and a copy of your purchase permit (not required) with you and have the gun locked up and unloaded separate from the ammo. Take a direct route to and from the range. Of course as with all NJ law theres a lot of gray area.

 

 

:facepalm:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, your Creator gave you the right to transport your handgun anywhere you damn well please. The 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects that right. NJ law, 2C:39-5 effectively removes that right (unless you have a permit to carry, which is impossible, pending the SAF/ANJRPC lawsuit), and 2C:39-6 says you have an exemption to 2C:39-5 if you're transporting your handgun to/from the range from/to your home, as long as you do not make any stops along the way and the judge at your trial allows you to use that defense...

 

There, I fixed that for you...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The accepted safe practice is the make sure you have your FID card and a copy of your purchase permit (not required) with you and have the gun locked up and unloaded separate from the ammo. Take a direct route to and from the range. Of course as with all NJ law theres a lot of gray area.

 

this is %100 correct expect for the parts I highlighted for you...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as far as I know.. to transport handguns..

 

Vehicle with trunk

Unloaded

in case

In trunk

Vehicle without trunk

Unloaded

locked container or trigger lock in unlocked container

 

travel should only include what is reasonably necessary to get you to and from the range, gunsmith, place of purchase..

 

the whole separate ammo thing as far as I am aware is not actually in the law.. some people carry it in a separate container to error on the side of over compliance.. but if you have a gun box that has several different compartments you could as far as I know put ammo in them.. the gun has to be UNLOADED.. but lets face it.. carrying the ammo separate is going to be a lot easier anyway..

 

There, I fixed that for you...

 

why would there be a judge involved.. what do you mean here? what he posted as far as I am aware is completely correct in the context of the question.. he is not explaining HOW to legally transport.. he is explaining what gives the original poster the right to transport.. and in that explanation I think he is pretty accurate..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no document authorizing you to transport a firearm in NJ, and there is no requirement to demonstrate or prove ownership of any weapon in your possession.

 

Additionally, although carrying your FID card won't hurt to prove that you're legally allowed to possess firearms in NJ, it isn't required that you carry it for presentation on demand. There are perfectly legal situations where you would be in possession of firearms without needing an FID card (moved from another state, inheritance).

 

Primarily, NJ is concerned with the legality of the weapon and accessories, and with the details of the transportation of the weapon, so:.

 

If the gun(s) or accessories in your possession are illegal to own in NJ, but you're following transportation laws regarding destinations (to/from range, smith, etc.) and transportation (separate cases, etc.) , having an FID card won't make any difference. You're screwed.

 

If the gun(s) or accessories in your possession are legal to own in NJ, but you're transporting them illegally, having an FID card won't make any difference. You're screwed.

 

If the gun(s) or accessories in your possession are legal to own in NJ, and you're transporting them legally, and the cop isn't aware of the applicable laws, having an FID card likely won't make any difference. You're less screwed.

 

If the gun(s) in your possession are legal to own in NJ, and you're transporting them legally, and the cop is aware of the applicable laws, having an FID card likely won't make any difference. You're not the droid they're looking for.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as far as I know.. to transport handguns..

 

Vehicle with trunk

Unloaded

in case

In trunk

Vehicle without trunk

Unloaded

locked container or trigger lock in unlocked container

 

travel should only include what is reasonably necessary to get you to and from the range..

the whole separate ammo thing as far as I am aware is not actually in the law.. some people carry it in a separate container to error on the side of over compliance.. but if you have a gun box that has several different compartments you could as far as I know put ammo in them.. but lets face it.. carrying the ammo separate is going to be a lot easier anyway..

 

The NJ State police website says one thing, the statutes say another.

 

All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

 

Note the or statement. Such a reading would suggest that it could be loaded, laying in the trunk as long as the trunk is locked. If it's not in the trunk, it needs to be in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package.

 

I'm only going to say that I think it's a good idea to have them unloaded, in a case, in the trunk. The statutes are significantly less strict than the NJSP would suggest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NJ State police website says one thing, the statutes say another.

 

you know which one to follow right? I know I do..

 

they go on to explain that the firearm should be inaccessible.. almost as if they are explaining the difference between having a trunk and not.. but just completely lack the complete info..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi All,

I have NJ Firearms Purchaser ID card which says I can buy and carry rifles and shotguns in NJ. I am waiting for my FIRST time handgun purchase permit. My question is, what gives me the right to transport the handgun to a range? Will I receive another document authorizing this? Or is it just on my record as a result of the purchase? Just curious and thanks for your replies.

Dom

 

 

2C:39-6 Exemptions.

 

e.Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

 

f.Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent:

 

(1)A member of any rifle or pistol club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice, in going to or from a place of target practice, carrying such firearms as are necessary for said target practice, provided that the club has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent and provided further that the firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section;

 

(2)A person carrying a firearm or knife in the woods or fields or upon the waters of this State for the purpose of hunting, target practice or fishing, provided that the firearm or knife is legal and appropriate for hunting or fishing purposes in this State and he has in his possession a valid hunting license, or, with respect to fresh water fishing, a valid fishing license;

 

(3)A person transporting any firearm or knife while traveling:

 

(a)Directly to or from any place for the purpose of hunting or fishing, provided the person has in his possession a valid hunting or fishing license; or

 

( b )Directly to or from any target range, or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions, provided in all cases that during the course of the travel all firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section and the person has complied with all the provisions and requirements of Title 23 of the Revised Statutes and any amendments thereto and all rules and regulations promulgated thereunder; or

 

( c )In the case of a firearm, directly to or from any exhibition or display of firearms which is sponsored by any law enforcement agency, any rifle or pistol club, or any firearms collectors club, for the purpose of displaying the firearms to the public or to the members of the organization or club, provided, however, that not less than 30 days prior to the exhibition or display, notice of the exhibition or display shall be given to the Superintendent of the State Police by the sponsoring organization or club, and the sponsor has complied with such reasonable safety regulations as the superintendent may promulgate. Any firearms transported pursuant to this section shall be transported in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section;

 

(4)A person from keeping or carrying about a private or commercial aircraft or any boat, or from transporting to or from such vessel for the purpose of installation or repair a visual distress signaling device approved by the United States Coast Guard.

 

g.All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

 

 

That's the statute. Keep reading it. It takes a few times before it sinks in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NJ State police website says one thing, the statutes say another.

 

 

 

Note the or statement. Such a reading would suggest that it could be loaded, laying in the trunk as long as the trunk is locked. If it's not in the trunk, it needs to be in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package.

 

I'm only going to say that I think it's a good idea to have them unloaded, in a case, in the trunk. The statutes are significantly less strict than the NJSP would suggest.

 

So...Is a locked range bag considered to be a "case".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow!

I didn't realize the hornets nest that is involved with transportation. I think I understand what I have to do...BE VERY CAREFUL!

 

I did follow the recent case of the Brian fella who was just traveling through, and I didn't want to get into a similar bind.

 

So, place gun in a case in the trunk of the car (I have a trunk), unloaded. Case doesn't have to be locked. Keep the ammo in a separate container.

 

thanks for the info gentlemen.

 

Dom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow!

I didn't realize the hornets nest that is involved with transportation. I think I understand what I have to do...BE VERY CAREFUL!

 

I did follow the recent case of the Brian fella who was just traveling through, and I didn't want to get into a similar bind.

 

So, place gun in a case in the trunk of the car (I have a trunk), unloaded. Case doesn't have to be locked. Keep the ammo in a separate container.

 

thanks for the info gentlemen.

 

Dom

 

actually no hornets nest.. and no real being careful.. just follow the law and you will be fine.. :icon_cool:

 

don't worry about stirring up lots of posts.. it is good these things are discussed.. no one here knows everything.. but when things are discussed we all learn a little more..

 

the only thing we have to be careful with is providing information that is completely based in fact..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NJ State police website says one thing, the statutes say another.

 

 

 

 

 

Note the or statement. Such a reading would suggest that it could be loaded, laying in the trunk as long as the trunk is locked. If it's not in the trunk, it needs to be in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package.

 

 

I don't think so. I read it more as

 

All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

 

So it has to be unloaded, AND the first part or second part. The unloaded refers to both second parts. So unloaded in the trunk, or unloaded in a closed and fastened case/box/package.

 

 

As Kenw said, having an FPID or pistol purchase permit does not matter at all when transporting firearms in New Jersey. They are required for purchasing firearms IN New Jersey. I don't own a single firearm purchased in NJ, and therefore do not have a FPID.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As Kenw said, having an FPID or pistol purchase permit does not matter at all when transporting firearms in New Jersey.

 

It actually allows one to transport long guns. The exemption is only for transporting without a FPID.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It actually allows one to transport long guns. The exemption is only for transporting without a FPID.

 

Exactly. The FID allows you to possess unloaded rifles and shotguns. But, be careful, even though you can't be charged with Unlawful Possession of a Weapon (Firearm) you are still subject to the charge of Possession of a Weapon (Firearm) for an Unlawful Purpose, so you can't possess them for any reason.

 

2C:39-5 Unlawful possession of weapons.

tab.gif2C:39-5. Unlawful possession of weapons. a. Machine guns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession a machine gun or any instrument or device adaptable for use as a machine gun, without being licensed to do so as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-5, is guilty of a crime of the second degree.

 

tab.gifb.tab.gifHandguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree if the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. Otherwise it is a crime of the second degree.

 

tab.gifc.tab.gifRifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

tab.gif(2)tab.gifUnless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

 

2C:39-4. Possession of weapons for unlawful purposes.

 

tab.gifa.tab.gifFirearms . (1) Any person who has in his possession any firearm with a purpose to use it unlawfully against the person or property of another is guilty of a crime of the second degree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

. Keep the ammo in a separate container.

 

once again, there is no law that specifically states the ammo has to be in a separate container. being extra careful is fine, but since we're getting into the fine details of transporting guns and how they are to be kept when doing so, you should know that the 'keep ammo separate' thing is just hearsay, passed by word of mouth and people who dont know the actual law. even a cop told me to keep them separate, but again its not in the law.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Administratively the majority of the consensus of the posts is correct.

 

By the letter of the law, firearms and the transportation of them is illegal, the exemptions are defenses of the illegal activity.

 

This is akin to it being illegal to physically harm someone but a defense of that illegal act would be defense of ones life when no retreat is possible.

 

Isn't NJ fun.

 

There is a big difference between the law and how its administrated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think so. I read it more as

 

I think we have hit upon an ambiguity in the statutes. I'm a programmer. "And" operators are executed before "Or" operators. In programming, you can put something in parenthesis if you're not sure of the operator precedence.

 

Like 6 + 4 * 7 - 5 . The correct answer is 29.

If however, you were after 65, you'd express it like this (6 + 4) * 7 - 5 = 65. Or (6 + 4) * (7 - 5) = 20. A similar convention applies to And and Or operators.

 

I see the transport statutes like this:

 

(shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package), or (locked in the trunk of the automobile)

 

You see it like this:

 

(shall be carried unloaded) and (contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile)

 

In programming, that means the OR operator would have been evaluated first and then evaluated with the And operator. I.E. Backwards.

 

So I looked multiple conjunctions in English up and I found this which clearly makes it unclear.

 

Multiple conjunctions

http://nawctsd.navair.navy.mil/Resources/Library/Acqguide/SpecWrit.htm#conj

When you write sentences with two or more conjunctions, you risk producing an ambiguity. For example,

 

The flange shall be fastened by gluing and clamping or riveting.

 

could mean "gluing and clamping or riveting" or it could mean "gluing and clamping or riveting," with the bold characters added for clarity. Unfortunately, English does not provide us with a means of declaring the order of application of its logical operators the way computer languages do. The burden of resolving the confusion of precedence is placed on the writer, who must find a different way of expressing the idea without ambiguity. In the above case try

 

"The flange shall be fastened either by gluing and clamping or by riveting."

 

The exact same problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NJ firearm laws were intended to be vague and subject to interpretation by nature.

 

They knew that even in the PRNJ an outright ban would never fly so they did the next best thing and made firearms illegal but said "its ok so long as you follow the law regarding exemptions you can have guns"

 

The law was made confusing and next to impossible to follow to dissuade gun ownership and if you look at NJ compared the rest of the country in regards to legal ownership it worked.

 

Didn't do anything to reduce illegal ownership, only emboldened criminals. But makes the populace dependant on the government for protection and thereby increasing government control by artificial necessity.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think so. I read it more as

 

 

 

So it has to be unloaded, AND the first part or second part. The unloaded refers to both second parts. So unloaded in the trunk, or unloaded in a closed and fastened case/box/package.

 

 

As Kenw said, having an FPID or pistol purchase permit does not matter at all when transporting firearms in New Jersey. They are required for purchasing firearms IN New Jersey. I don't own a single firearm purchased in NJ, and therefore do not have a FPID.

 

Whoa!!

What you are saying then, is if I bought or bring a gun in from another state, country, universe, then it is perfectly legal for me to take this handgun to any range in New Jersey?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whoa!!

What you are saying then, is if I bought or bring a gun in from another state, country, universe, then it is perfectly legal for me to take this handgun to any range in New Jersey?

 

Yes, provided the firearm was obtained legally in a different state. For example if you are a soldier stationed in Arizona, you can buy any pistol you want(NJ legal) and bring it home to NJ, no PP, no one gun a month, no extra paperwork, nada. Perhaps you moved to Ohio for a year, you could buy 100 guns and when you moved back to NJ, bring them with you. Completely legal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whoa!!

What you are saying then, is if I bought or bring a gun in from another state, country, universe, then it is perfectly legal for me to take this handgun to any range in New Jersey?

 

Legally this is correct.

 

Police find you transporting a firearm without an njfid they will most likely arrest you for illegal possession of a firearm. (They make exceptions during hunting season for out of state hunters with valid nj hunting liscenses)

 

You may plead to a lessor charge or you may go to court. Its anyones guess what a judge will do at that point.

 

Once again there is a big difference between the adminstration of the law and the law as written/intended.

 

Look at how police handle the possesion of folding knives compared to what the law says.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the answer to the original question can be summed up this way:

 

"When dealing with firearms, the citizen acts at his own peril"

(State of NJ vs. Pelliteri, NJ Superior Court 1996)

 

:icon_e_surprised: :icon_e_surprised: :icon_e_surprised: :icon_e_surprised: :icon_e_surprised: :icon_e_surprised: :icon_e_surprised:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the answer to the original question can be summed up this way:

 

"When dealing with firearms, the citizen acts at his own peril"

(State of NJ vs. Pelliteri, NJ Superior Court 1996)

 

:icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised::icon_e_surprised:

 

+1

...sadly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...