Poll for whether teachers should be permitted CCW

[SoR 4]

Yes, they should be allowed to carry under one condition - they should not be members or supporters of teachers union.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I do not get it. Why else would we be talking about arming teachers if not for the express purpose of protecting the schools and Kids? They armed pilots to protect planes, they would arm teachers to protect schools. And if they allow it it is to protect and requires a different training level. I can only say the same thing so many times. Otherwise it would read EVERYONE should carry everywhere, but it only reads teachers.

 

Obviously carrying a gun is the only thing some of you want out of life. Maybe it is me, I have carried before and will again if given the opportunity, but it is not the be all end all for me.

We will just agree to have different opinions on this.

 

 

you arm yourself to protect yourself.. but if you observed an individual literally being beaten to death in an alley would you intervene? or would you allow your lack of training to stop you?

 

the question at face value.. should teachers have the right to carry... the simple answer is of course.. everyone should have that right who has not lost it through some type of illegal act... I do not have interest in disqualifying people from ccw based on the work environment they are in..

 

I will respectfully agree to disagree as we obviously just do not see eye to eye.. nothing bad about that.. just a difference in opinion..

[vladtepes 1,060]

I don't see anything in there about using teachers to keep the school safe, it was a simple poll about letting adults who work in the school carry on the job.

 

THIS..

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I'm 6months away from being certified to be a teacher, i would love to carry on the job for my own protection and as result the students would fall under that protection as well. I'm more for having it locked in a drawer in the class room when occupied. I dont see this as a means to protect the students as much as its a means to expand the protection of ones self and consequently the protection of innocent bystanders(students). I don't see this going anywhere in NJ tho.

I dont understand some of the arguements here tho, if a state allows ccw then why should it end at school property? You can't say that you wouldnt encounter the same issues on the street then in a class room. Just becuase an attacker is a minor doesnt change the fact that your life can still be in danger.

[pronoun 1]

This is an interesting question and I would simply like to ask a few questions that I think will illuminate yet another perspective.

 

Would it make a difference if carrying was optional as opposed to if every teacher were required to carry?

 

Or, let's say CCW is established and gun free zones abolished. We can all carry if we so choose. Would you be unhappy with a teacher who then chose to carry? Should teachers in fact be barred from carrying?

[lunker 274]

I am not opposed to them carrying, but rather throwing the onus on them to protect the students. They are two very different things.

[Nick S 2]

I am not opposed to them carrying, but rather throwing the onus on them to protect the students. They are two very different things.

 

Unfortunately, the public looks at teachers as not only educators but protectors of their children while they are in school. If teachers were to ccw while working that would put a greater liability on the school system. Let's face it police officers/security go through much more detailed training...even site specific training that the average CCW holder does not go through. To ask a CCW holder to assume security for more than themselves is not fair. People CCW to protect themselves not to necessarily protect others. Correct me if I am wrong, but CCW classes don't cover alternative methods of self defense. They also don't really get into how to de-escalate a situation. Police officers and security officers go through this training. Also, do we want a CCW holder who doesn't have to meet qualification standards as far as shooting in order to get a CCW permit with the responsibility of security?

 

I just don't see it happening even though I do understand that many do not want limitations to CCW rules. CCW doesn't matter in NJ because for the majority of the publice even though we have a May issue law....the likelihood is not high....as stated all over this forum.

 

Just some things to think about.

[lunker 274]

Unfortunately, the public looks at teachers as not only educators but protectors of their children while they are in school. If teachers were to ccw while working that would put a greater liability on the school system. Let's face it police officers/security go through much more detailed training...even site specific training that the average CCW holder does not go through. To ask a CCW holder to assume security for more than themselves is not fair. People CCW to protect themselves not to necessarily protect others. Correct me if I am wrong, but CCW classes don't cover alternative methods of self defense. They also don't really get into how to de-escalate a situation. Police officers and security officers go through this training. Also, do we want a CCW holder who doesn't have to meet qualification standards as far as shooting in order to get a CCW permit with the responsibility of security?

 

I just don't see it happening even though I do understand that many do not want limitations to CCW rules. CCW doesn't matter in NJ because for the majority of the publice even though we have a May issue law....the likelihood is not high....as stated all over this forum.

 

Just some things to think about.

 

Agreed. See post #29.

I think we said the same thing.

[Nick S 2]

Not to start a flame war, but I'm interested in the reasoning behind some of you comments.

 

 

 

So are you against anyone carrying a gun a public place? "Crowds" can be substituted for the word "kids" and the same thing holds true. And don't you agree that anyone, not just teachers, should get training before carrying a firearm in public at all? I'm not advocating government mandatory training, but as Uncle Owen said, "With great power comes great responsibility."

 

No I am not against people consealed carrying where it is legal to do so in a public place necessarily. I am not in favor of putting guns in the hands of minimally trained people with CCW's and then expecting them to be able to respond during an incident especially where children are. Let's face it children do not understand guns for the most part unless they are raised around them. They get their images of guns from what they see on TV and in movies and video games mostly. Kids under the age of 16 in most states are not held criminally liable for their actions in many cases because the courts feel they do not have the capacity to understand their actions and so they are often charged as juveniles instead of as adults. (Forgive me if this is not a direct qoute from criminal law)That's why I don't like the idea of having guns around children. Children do not have the capacity to understand guns and that they are not to be taken lightly. I believe when most parents send their children to school they are expecting the school and the teachers to protect them and do what's in their best interest. Is it in the best interest that a teacher who has minimal firearms training necessary to get a CCW be arms in a classroom with children. As I said earlier I believe...CCW classes do not teach things on how to de-escalate an incident that I am aware of (correct me if I am wrong here folks. I haven't taken a CCW class yet) Most places that do offer a CCW permit require something like a hunter safety course or a beginner firearms course completed and some money. I believe any state that is going to have CCW should make sure that the people who are applying for this can in fact operate a weapon properly. Do we want to give a CCW to someone who's incapable of operating a weapon properly and then expect them to act appropriately in a hostile situation where they draw their firearm? If you can't show proficiency in using a firearm then I think you shouldn't be allowed to own one. Same thing for mace etc. You should be required to take a course where you demonstrate proficiency before you are allowed to carry it.

 

We already have outrage from the anti's about anybody who carries in public. Why should anyone, including teachers, give up their rights to quell the outrage from people who are uncomfortable with others exercising those rights?

 

The biggest issue have with this arguement is again the minimally trained person with CCW injecting a weapon into an icident without using other de-escalation rtechniques first. There are many de-escalation techniques that might work before drawing a firearm. If there were training standards that had to be met that required a person to show proficiency in using the firearm they plan to CCW then that's another story.

 

 

 

I don't think anybody is suggesting that teachers should be forced to carry a firearm while on the job. Anyone who has the mindset to carry a gun will go get whatever training they think they need. I would submit that most teachers that you know would never carry a gun at all, let alone on the job, so you can't use them as a fair example. You're also advocating, intentionally or not, for a police state by suggesting that the police should be the only ones allowed to carry in schools, and not giving the same option to all the adults in the same environment.

 

Again here you leave it up to the individual to determine what training they feel they need in order to CCW. Does the police academy leave it up to the recruits to determine what training they need to become police officers. No there are standard requirements they must meet in order to become and maintain the right to be a police officer...there are requirements in many other professions or with many other things we do such as driving a car.

 

 

 

Again, you're blurring the idea of permitting teachers to carry in schools with the idea that ALL teachers should be required to carry in schools.

 

I am sorry you got that from what I said. I don't feel that if we allow teachers to carry in schools then everyone should do it. If it ever comes to pass, and I don't think it will because of the liability to the school system having one of their employees carrying concealed even though it is not a major part of their job description.

[BRN169 6]

From my vast collection of "I remember reading about that..." knowledge:

 

From The Truth About Guns.com

Some Thoughts on Armed Teachers and Other Current Issues

 

[BigHayden 77]

You should be required to take a course where you demonstrate proficiency before you are allowed to carry it.

 

Funny, we don't have to demonstrate proficiency with any of our other rights before we're "allowed" to exercise them.

 

Are you aware that the accident rates among CCW holders in states that have a training requirement are no different than those who have no training requirement at all? This fact alone is proof that required training or not, concealed carry holders are among the most responsible people in society.

 

Getting training is the responsible thing to do, however, if the Government requires it, it's no longer a right but a privilege to be granted by the state.