Carrying in PA.. LTCF..

[vladtepes 1,060]

is anyone %100 sure as to if when carrying in PA I can carrying HP ammo? or does it have to be FMJ..

 

thanks..

[tommy3rd 132]

I would assume that since it's in America, It's no holds barred. This is the same place where you come across free public ranges, and the holy land of firearms. LOL

 

Yup, everything goes.

§ 6120. Limitation on the regulation of firearms and ammunition.

 

(a) General rule.--No county, municipality or township may

in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession,

transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition

components when carried or transported for purposes not

prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.

 

you may even carry a 33 round magazine for your glock. god I love that state!

(a) Offense defined.--It is unlawful for any person to

possess, use or attempt to use a KTW teflon-coated bullet or

other armor-piercing ammunition while committing or attempting

to commit a crime of violence as defined in section 6102

(relating to definitions).

hah! You could even have armor piercing bullets, as long as it's not used in a crime!

[Ray Ray 3,566]

hornday critical defense, best of both worlds

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

GTG - PA is America

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

Yeah you can carry them, I am 100% sure. Now, certain peoples interpretation of how legal it is to get them there from here are different...so I just carry federal EFMJs. Even if its legal to drive there with HPs, its one less questionable item.

[vladtepes 1,060]

figured as much just wanted to check... thanks..

[Damjan 73]

I`ve been reading PAFOA for a while and according to them it`s OK .

[Wojo 98]

Seeing that we have some people in the know about PA and I am feeling a bit lazy...

 

What is the deal with Philly and non-resident FL CCW's? I am the featured speaker on Workplace Violence in two weeks that is being sponsored by Grainger for their health care clients. The event is being held at the Hilton by the airport and I plan on packing because; 1) It's Philly and 2) It's Philly. I need to do some research if the Hilton falls within city limits, or does that not matter? Because I need to be disguised as a responsible adult and throw the suit on, my 1911 will be IWB during my stay.

 

Does Dick's in Rockaway carry the EFMJ's or the Critical Defense?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Found a source - NRA-ILA PA Page

[mipafox 438]

Seeing that we have some people in the know about PA and I am feeling a bit lazy...

 

What is the deal with Philly and non-resident FL CCW's? I am the featured speaker on Workplace Violence in two weeks that is being sponsored by Grainger for their health care clients. The event is being held at the Hilton by the airport and I plan on packing because; a) It's Philly and B) It's Philly. I need to do some research if the Hilton falls within city limits, or does that not matter? Because I need to be disguised as a responsible adult and throw the suit on, my 1911 will be IWB during my stay.

 

Does Dick's in Rockaway carry the EFMJ's or the Critical Defense?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

If you have a license/permit to carry from PA or a state that PA recognizes then Philly is the same as anywhere else. Just that the cops down there are notorious for being stupid and assholes. No disrespect meant to any Philly cops on this forum. I don't give a crap myself. But if I was on an out of state permit, I would conceal to avoid nonsense. Even if you are discovered, the ammo types, mag sizes, etc. won't make a difference in how badly they treat you. It's still not Jersey. Barely.

[Wojo 98]

If you have a license/permit to carry from PA or a state that PA recognizes then Philly is the same as anywhere else. Just that the cops down there are notorious for being stupid and assholes. No disrespect meant to any Philly cops on this forum. I don't give a crap myself. But if I was on an out of state permit, I would conceal to avoid nonsense. Even if you are discovered, the ammo types, mag sizes, etc. won't make a difference in how badly they treat you. It's still not Jersey. Barely.

 

That's what I figured. As I was updating my post, I printed the laws out and will keep them with me. Never hurts to show them what the laws are that they are supposed to know about. I do the same thing when I travel, I bring the TSA or whatever state I am going to law's with me. Because this was Philly, I knew they were different in some ways...and not for the positive.

[Dan 177]

I know it's been talked about before, but would we have to rely on FOPA to legally transport a handgun to PA to be used for CCW (i.e. its not going to a range or place of repair)?

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I think the concensus is that, yes, you are covered by FOPA - but there hasn't been a court case to test that. The criteria for FOPA coverage is legal at point of origin and legal at destination - doesn't matter what falls inbetween, as long as you transport by the rules of FOPA.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Dan 177]

Thanks for the affirmation Bob.

[mipafox 438]

I think the concensus is that, yes, you are covered by FOPA - but there hasn't been a court case to test that. The criteria for FOPA coverage is legal at point of origin and legal at destination - doesn't matter what falls inbetween, as long as you transport by the rules of FOPA.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

That's good to know. Because PA has serious restrictions on transporting handguns by vehicle without LTCF or license/permit from another state.

 

Since 18 year olds can legally possess and carry in their homes, and they can legally possess and carry (openly) at Walmart, or almost anywhere else, I guess it would be OK for them to drive around with a handgun in the trunk full-time* .

 

* this was sarcasm. Please don't do that.

[Downr@nge 22]

Just be careful not to get pulled over on your way there and on your way back from PA as we are not covered under the exemptions.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Just be careful not to get pulled over on your way there and on your way back from PA as we are not covered under the exemptions.

 

I believe this information to be false.. I do not believe NJ can prohibit you from leaving the state with your firearm.. the exemptions are for transporting within the state..

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

This turned into a PAFOA thread real quickly! One question turns into a big legal argument over something other topic....lol

[Malsua 1,422]

I believe this information to be false.. I do not believe NJ can prohibit you from leaving the state with your firearm.. the exemptions are for transporting within the state..

 

The statutes don't mention your ultimate destination. They say "Here's how you must transport guns, here are the exemptions". Where are you getting this about not being able to prevent you from leaving the state? There are other statutes and amendments protecting that. While you are in state, you have to follow the rules. It's really that simple.

 

Suppose FOPA said "You are allowed to carry loaded handguns hanging from your rear view mirror. (Silly, I know, I'm doing this to illustrate a point). By your logic "I'm leaving the state" would then make it fall under FOPA and hence legal in NJ. Do you think for a second any NJ cop would let you drive around NJ with a gun hanging from your mirror or do you think perhaps they'd jack you up under existing statutes?

[tommy3rd 132]

not for nothing, but i think this thread can be locked now. the question has been answered, and a completely new topic opened within the thread.

[vladtepes 1,060]

The statutes don't mention your ultimate destination. They say "Here's how you must transport guns, here are the exemptions". Where are you getting this about not being able to prevent you from leaving the state? There are other statutes and amendments protecting that. While you are in state, you have to follow the rules. It's really that simple.

 

Suppose FOPA said "You are allowed to carry loaded handguns hanging from your rear view mirror. (Silly, I know, I'm doing this to illustrate a point). By your logic "I'm leaving the state" would then make it fall under FOPA and hence legal in NJ. Do you think for a second any NJ cop would let you drive around NJ with a gun hanging from your mirror or do you think perhaps they'd jack you up under existing statutes?

 

 

you have to transport with the gun inaccessible to the driver... so it would be a non issue..

if you really think that NJ can legally prevent you from leaving the state with your legally owned firearms.. then we can certainly agree to disagree..

[Malsua 1,422]

you have to transport with the gun inaccessible to the driver... so it would be a non issue..

if you really think that NJ can legally prevent you from leaving the state with your legally owned firearms.. then we can certainly agree to disagree..

 

I never said that.

 

They cannot prevent you from leaving with your firearms.

 

What I am saying is that they dictate how you must transport those firearms while you are within the borders of NJ.

 

-"Leaving the state to go to my home elsewhere" is a perfectly legal reason to have a gun in your car.

-"Leaving the state to go to a Firing Range elsewhere" is a perfectly legal reason to have a gun in the car.

-"Leaving the state to go to a gunsmith elsewhere" is a perfectly legal reason to have a gun in the car.

-"Leaving the state to go to my business elsewhere" is a perfectly legal reason to have a gun in the car.

-"Leaving the state to go hunting elsewhere" is a perfectly legal reason to have a gun in the car.

-"Leaving the state to Carry a concealed weapon elsewhere" is not a legal reason to have a gun in the car.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I never said that.

 

They cannot prevent you from leaving with your firearms.

 

What I am saying is that they dictate how you must transport those firearms while you are within the borders of NJ.

 

-"Leaving the state to go to my home elsewhere" is a perfectly legal reason to have a gun in your car.

-"Leaving the state to go to a Firing Range elsewhere" is a perfectly legal reason to have a gun in the car.

-"Leaving the state to go to a gunsmith elsewhere" is a perfectly legal reason to have a gun in the car.

-"Leaving the state to go to my business elsewhere" is a perfectly legal reason to have a gun in the car.

-"Leaving the state to go hunting elsewhere" is a perfectly legal reason to have a gun in the car.

-"Leaving the state to Carry a concealed weapon elsewhere" is not a legal reason to have a gun in the car.

 

"Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."

 

from any place where he may lawfully possess carry such firearm

my home in NJ

 

to

 

to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm

PA where I may carry a gun legally in the entire state

 

if you read the law it states pretty clearly.. that you can bring it from state A (where you can lawfully have a gun.. at my home for example) to state B (providing the gun is legal there.. which in this case it is)

[PK90 3,570]

What I am saying is that they dictate how you must transport those firearms while you are within the borders of NJ.

True. Did you mean to say where?

 

I have to agree with vladtepes. The FOPA covers you.

[Cylinder Head 22]

If you have a license/permit to carry from PA or a state that PA recognizes then Philly is the same as anywhere else. Just that the cops down there are notorious for being stupid and assholes. No disrespect meant to any Philly cops on this forum. I don't give a crap myself. But if I was on an out of state permit, I would conceal to avoid nonsense. Even if you are discovered, the ammo types, mag sizes, etc. won't make a difference in how badly they treat you. It's still not Jersey. Barely.

 

Ask Gerald Ung, he'll tell you all about Philly cops.

[ianargent 7]

I believe this information to be false.. I do not believe NJ can prohibit you from leaving the state with your firearm.. the exemptions are for transporting within the state..

 

Inside the state, you're illegal to possess unless you're on your way to a permitted destination "with only reasonable diversions". "PA" is not a permitted destination by itself, you "have" to be on the way to a range, &c. FOPA does not help - since FOPA only covers the "intermediate" states, the origin and destination states aren't covered. In NJ, you have to hold to NJ's laws.

 

IANAL, particularly not a firearms lawyer. But since that's the pessimistice view, I figure it's the safest view to take.

[cubflyer50 1]

hornday critical defense, best of both worlds

 

 

Hornady Critical Defense load is not considered a hollow point in NJ. IF you could carry, even with hollow points being illegal you would be able to carry the CD load.....

[vjf915 456]

Hornady Critical Defense load is not considered a hollow point in NJ. IF you could carry, even with hollow points being illegal you would be able to carry the CD load.....

Huh??

[kenw 293]

When did hollow points become illegal?? Did I miss the memo?

[PK90 3,570]

Here you go:

Interstate Transportation of Firearms In response to reports of hunters being arrested for firearms law violations while passing through a state with tight controls,[488] FOPA's drafters inserted provisions to offer protection for such travel. S. 49 as introduced provided that any provision of state or local law "which prohibits or has the effect of prohibiting the transportation of a firearm or ammunition in interstate commerce through such state, when such firearm is unloaded and not readily accessible, (p.677)shall be null and void."[489] On the Senate floor, an amendment was accepted which changed this in two respects: (1) the protection was extended only to persons not prohibited by the Gun Control Act from transporting, shipping or receiving a firearm; and (2) the provision that an infringing law was to be null and void was dropped in favor of a simpler declaration that the transportation was allowed notwithstanding any such law.[490] The rationale for the former change should be apparent. The rationale for the latter was a concern that, if the provisions that "have the effect" of inhibiting interstate transport were declared "null and void," entire sections of state law might be challenged and voided as to all purposes.[491] In this form the provisions passed the Senate,[492] and an identical provision was inserted in the bill that passed the House.[493]

 

Upon transmittal of the House bill to the Senate, the Senate passed both it and an amendatory bill, S. 2414, which greatly affected this section. S. 2414 narrowed the right of travel by providing that it was a right "to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearms"; moreover, both firearm and ammunition must not only be not "readily accessible" but also not "directly accessible from the passenger compartment."[494] The restriction to transport to and from areas where the arms might be lawfully possessed was apparently a counter to criticisms that the bill might otherwise bar arrest of the owner in his own state, under that state's laws, if he argued he was beginning a permitted transportation.[495] The second change was intended to rule out carrying in a glove compartment,[496] which the Senate (p.678)reports had indicated would qualify as "not readily accessible" under FOPA.[497] On the other hand, S. 2414 seemingly widened the allowable transportation by requiring, not that it be "interstate commerce," but that it simply be "from any place" of lawful possession "to any place" of the same.[498] The House passed the Senate bill without amendment.[499]

 

Enactment of S. 2414 does leave some questions unanswered. Fortunately, its late origin has given us a legislative history adequate to address most issues.

 

 

Accessibility

The first question is obvious: what is "not readily accessible"? We can easily discard the horrible hypotheticals raised during the House debates on FOPA, that a briefcase behind the seat would meet this test,[500] or that "inaccessible in most cases probably means concealed."[501] In practical terms, the requirement of inaccessibility is essentially subsumed in S. 2414's requirement that the firearm be stored outside the passenger compartment. If storage in a locked glove compartment was sufficient to meet the accessibility test, as the legislative history clearly indicates,[502] the (p.679)required storage outside the passenger compartment should clearly suffice.

 

 

Purposes

A second question is likewise obvious. For what purposes may the transportation be undertaken? FOPA itself had no requirements relative to the underlying purpose.[503] Opponents of FOPA criticized this lack,[504] but did not carry the day; a House amendment that would essentially have required that the transportation be for defined sporting purposes was decisively defeated.[505] S. 2414 does insert a purpose requirement, but one far broader than that proposed unsuccessfully in the House; the transportation may be for "any lawful purpose."[506] The omission of "sporting" or its equivalent is apparent and would suggest that the transporting party may intend any lawful purpose, including self-defense, at his or her destination.

 

 

Lawful Carrying at Origin and Destination

S. 2414 would require that the transportation be from an area where the person may possess "and carry" the arm to a place where he may do the same.[507] This raises the question of what manner of carrying is being addressed. Carrying restrictions can vary; in some states concealed carrying is banned, while open carrying is subject to no regulation.[508] Others require a permit to carry on or about the person, regardless of purpose,[509] while others only restrict carrying for non-sporting purposes.[510] The legislative history reflects an intention of a simple and pragmatic test: the transporter must be entitled to carry in the way he carries during the transportation; he must be legally qualified to carry an (p.680)unloaded, inaccessible firearm outside a vehicle's passenger compartment both where he begins and where he ends his journey.[511]

 

 

Nature of the Transportation

The shift from transportation "in interstate commerce" to transportation from one "place" to another[512] raises an initial question of whether intrastate trips through a locality with restrictive firearms laws might be covered. There is no explanation of the deletion of "in interstate commerce" in S. 2414's legislative history. On the more general question of whether it was intended to reach intrastate trips, the legislative history implies, but not unequivocally, that interstate trips remain the target. One Representative, for instance, mentioned that both FOPA and S. 2414 cover trips "in interstate commerce,"[513] but received a response that travelers are protected "after they leave the boundaries of their state or local jurisdiction."[514] The responding Representative then, only a few moments later, described S. 2414 as a protection "for interstate travelers."[515] Conversely, even with its restriction to travels in interstate commerce, it had been suggested that FOPA would reach travel within a state.[516] The better reading would probably be to restrict the coverage of this section to interstate commerce, particularly in light of the preamble's failure to make findings that protection of intrastate trips was necessary to a valid federal objective.[517]

 

[vjf915 456]

When did hollow points become illegal?? Did I miss the memo?