Shotgun with a Pistol grip

[DJNEB 1]

I recently purchased a mossberg 500 persuader shotgun with a buttstock attached, and pistol grip assembly included in the box, legally, in the state of NJ where I live. I was told from the owners that a pump action shotgun with a pistol grip was 100% legal in NJ. I changed the stock to a pistol grip, and was taking it home with me. I was stopped by police, and had the gun confiscated and now have to appear in court as they say it is considered to be an assault firearm. Can anyone supply me with any reputable sites stating laws for pistol grip shotguns? Thank you very much.

[Jon 264]

Welcome to the forum, and I'm sorry to hear of your legal troubles. What town was this?

 

The information you requested: http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf

[NicePants 58]

That is absolute crap. That law applies to semi-automatic shotguns only. You're going to win that case as long as you have a competent lawyer. Hell, I doubt an incompetent lawyer could lose that one.

[Maksim 1,504]

Why did they stop you? Hire a lawyer yet?

[tommy3rd 132]

What town is it? Will it be municipal court?

 

You know that reallly sucks. After you have been cleared, I wonder if you could sue for something like unlawful search and seizure just to stick it to them. I know a defense lawyer who loves using that argument in court. His line was always "it is a violation of my client's 4th amendment."

[PK90 3,570]

A few questions to help us help you:

 

1. What was the exact statute with which you were charged?

2. Did your shotgun have an 18" or longer barrel?

3. Did it come with a full stock?

4. Are you over 21 YOA?

5. Did you purchase from a dealer?

6. If not, did you executed a COE?

7. How were you transporting it?

8. What violation did you commit and did you receive a summons for it?

[deni 16]

Wow

Is it so hard to memorize/learn the laws

One shouldn't be allowed to enforce the law without knowing it first

[tommy3rd 132]

Wow

Is it so hard to memorize/learn the laws

One shouldn't be allowed to enforce the law without knowing it first

They don't even have to memorize everything, just the ones that can affect a person for the rest of his or her life ( like criminal charges).

[Anselmo 87]

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/18250-mossberg-jic-500-cruiser-is-it-legal-in-nj/

[vladtepes 1,060]

A few questions to help us help you:

 

1. What was the exact statute with which you were charged?

2. Did your shotgun have an 18" or longer barrel?

3. Did it come with a full stock?

4. Are you over 21 YOA?

5. Did you purchase from a dealer?

6. If not, did you executed a COE?

7. How were you transporting it?

8. What violation did you commit and did you receive a summons for it?

 

 

anxiously awaiting the answers to these question..

[n4p226r 105]

Wow. Def would like to hear more info on this one

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Yes - we definitely need all the info possible.

[DJNEB 1]

The town I was stopped in was Cherry Hill (i live in Allentown NJ), and it was by a Cherry Hill police officer. I was stopped for failure to stop at a stop sign (I did a rolling stop apparently). Upon Glancing through my car, he noticed the stock and then asked if I had a gun with me. I said yes and he said he was going to put me in handcuffs for his safety, and I said i understand. He then called for backup (about 8 more police vehicles), and they called his supervisor (arrived in a mini van) to find out what was going to happen to me as it was evident they did not know if it was legal or not. They came to the conclusion that the weapon I described which was a Mossberg 500 Pump Persuader 12 GA with a pistol grip was an assault weapon in NJ. They towed my car which I was able to pick up the next morning without a problem, and confiscated my shotgun. They released me the same night as I had no previous record with anything and said if i failed to appear in court, it would be a $27,000 warrant for my arrest.

 

I was going to cherry hill, as a friend of mine lives there and works on cars so he has a lot of tools. The bolt attaching the stock to the gun was bolted on and nothing I had was able to reach it. We got it off and I put on the pistol grip myself. Upon ordering the gun (which came with both the stock and pistol grip) from the midwest, I asked the dealer if it was legal and if I could do it myself as I am 19. He said yes to both these questions and that i did not need to have a handgun permit to buy it, I picked it up from Sportsmen center in bordentown, bought it, and took it to my previously mentioned friends house to assist me with removal.

 

Statues I am charged with are all because it is an "assault weapon". The officer said he would leave the part out about it being in "arms reach" ( I drive a Jeep not enough trunk space). Here is a copy of the complaint "WITHIN THIS JURISDICTION OF THIS COURT, KNOWINGLY POSSESS AN ASSAULT FIREARM WITHOUT BEING LICENSED UNDER N.J.S 2C:58-5 OR REGISTERING THE FIREARM UNDER N.J.S 58-12 OR RENDERING IT INOPERABLE UNDER N.J.S 2C:58-13, SPECIFICALLY POSSESSING A MOSSBERG 12 GAUGE SHOTGUN, SERIAL NUMBER XXXXXXX AND MODIFYING IT, WHICH HE WAS NOT LICENSED OR PRIVILIGED TO DO SO, BY REMOVING THE APPROVED STOCK AND REPLACING THAT WITH A PISTOL GRIP RENDERING THE SHOTGUN TO BE CLASSIFIED AS AN ASSAULT FIREARM IN VIOLATION OF N.J.S 2C:39-5F. 3RD DEGREE CRIME.". The shotgun I have, states on the website to have a 18.5 barrel. The shotgun had the full stock attached, but also included a pistol grip and necessary screws and allen wrench in the box with directions on how to put it on in the manual. I am 19, turning 20 in a week, and bought the package without a problem, and even asked the dealer if it was legal for me. He said flat out yes, and that there is no age limit to have a pistol grip shotgun, since it is not a handgun (this is the only thing I am worried about in court). I purchased from Sportsmen center in Bordentown NJ, and had it ordered through them from the midwest. We all know other states RARELY ship firearms to NJ if they are not sure it is legal. It was being transported in my car, with claimed in arms reach, however he said he would not put that on the complaint, just that its an "assault weapon". I am said to have had an assault weapon in the state of NJ and I have to appear in court on the 4th. The court is in the Camden County Hall of Justice in Camden and I am reporting to the superior court. Can ANYONE give me anything in writing or such that I could have to show this gun is not an assault weapon? As far as the ticket for the stop sign, I am just paying it. Its only 80 bucks and this matter is far less important.

 

I just want my shotgun back so I can take it to the range. Even the officers were impressed by it, and enjoyed looking at in the station, and asked me how much I payed for it.

[Tactical Monkey 51]

here

[DJNEB 1]

If I lose this case, I am 100% suing Sportsmen Center.

[Tactical Monkey 51]

If I lose this case, I am 100% suing Sportsmen Center.

 

Did you have your Firearms Purchasers Identification Card on you at the time you were pulled over?

 

You will only loose this case if you do not hire a competent lawyer... In clear print you did not possess an assault weapon

[PK90 3,570]

Was the shotgun in a case?

No other charges?

 

This is a slam dunk law suit against the Popo as described. Sportsman Center is right. You were legally allowed to buy it.

[vladtepes 1,060]

If I lose this case, I am 100% suing Sportsmen Center.

 

I might be wrong.. but I don't think you can.. the configuration they sold it to you in is without question %100 legal.. they are not lawyers so the legal advice they gave you is worth as much as you paid for it.. nothing..

 

the far bigger dilemma is I believe it is actually a federal issue in regards to pistol grip shotgun for someone under 21..

[Krdshrk 3,877]

The link that Tactical Monkey gave you is what you need. I would also lawyer up. Pistol grip pump shotguns are 100% legal in this state. Especially with the 18.5" Barrel. Sportsmen's Center sells them, as well as any other gun store in the state.

[vladtepes 1,060]

be held and fired by the use of a single hand.” Federal law

provides under 18 U.S.C. 922(B)(1), that if the firearm to be

transferred is “other than a rifle or shotgun,” the purchaser

must be 21 years of age or older.

Certain commercially produced firearms do not fall within

the definition of shotgun under the GCA even though

they utilize a shotgun shell for ammunition. For example,

firearms that come equipped with a pistol grip in place of

the buttstock are not shotguns as defined by the GCA.

A firearm with a pistol grip in lieu of the shoulder stock is

not designed to be fired from the shoulder and, therefore,

is not a shotgun. Since it is a firearm “other than a rifle or

shotgun,” the purchaser must be 21 years of age or older.

Additionally, interstate controls apply. The licensee and

transferee must be residents of the same State.

 

http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2009-11.pdf

[PK90 3,570]

If it only came with a pistol grip, the dealer can only sell to a person 21 YOA or older. However, it came with a stock, so Sportsmen Center was in the right. I do think that the OP can put on the pistol grip, because it is a shotgun that he legally purchased, not a "pistol gripped firearm" per Federal Law. See Page 2.

 

In any case, "assault weapon"? Give me a friggin break.

[DJNEB 1]

the shotgun was in a case, yes. I agree that the bigger issue is that it is on a person under 21. That apparently is unclear as well. However, from what I read on the statutes, the issue is that it is an assault weapon, and their is no complaint issued for my age, or could I be wrong? I just dont understand how so many people have so many different ideas of what is legal and what is not. It should be a very clear cut answer regarding what is an assault weapon and what age you need to be to own one. I did research online, and saw that there was no age limit to own one, since it is not a handgun. Who shoots a 20 gauge shotgun one-handed? I am sure I am not walking out of the court room with my gun and 100% cleared..

 

Can anyone find something that is legal or state printed about an age limit? I can not find anything that says there is no age limit, or that there is.

[vladtepes 1,060]

If it only came with a pistol grip, the dealer can only sell to a person 21 YOA or older. However, it came with a stock, so Sportsmen Center was in the right. I do think that the OP can put on the pistol grip, because it is a shotgun that he legally purchased, not a "pistol gripped firearm" per Federal Law. See Page 2.

 

In any case, "assault weapon"? Give me a friggin break.

 

 

I think it is ridiculous without question.. and the fact that NO ONE within the department realized this.. is absurd at best..

 

I was just going out on a limb but yeah it looks like your point is valid... just playing devils advocate but is there any issue he faces being under 21 converting a "shotgun" to some "other weapon"?

[PK90 3,570]

Age limit?

 

You are over 18 and possessed a FPID when you purchased the shotgun. DONE.

 

The referenced Federal Law is for the sale of "pistol gripped firearms". You must be 21 YOA, because it is not a shotgun.

[vladtepes 1,060]

the shotgun was in a case, yes. I agree that the bigger issue is that it is on a person under 21. That apparently is unclear as well. However, from what I read on the statutes, the issue is that it is an assault weapon, and their is no complaint issued for my age, or could I be wrong? I just dont understand how so many people have so many different ideas of what is legal and what is not. It should be a very clear cut answer regarding what is an assault weapon and what age you need to be to own one. I did research online, and saw that there was no age limit to own one, since it is not a handgun. Who shoots a 20 gauge shotgun one-handed? I am sure I am not walking out of the court room with my gun and 100% cleared..

 

Can anyone find something that is legal or state printed about an age limit? I can not find anything that says there is no age limit, or that there is.

 

it is without question NOT an assault weapon..

 

should he call the sate police? and just ask them.. and then when they laugh tell them what happened? maybe nip this before it even gets to court?

[vladtepes 1,060]

Age limit?

 

You are over 18 and possessed a FPID when you purchased the shotgun. DONE.

 

The referenced Federal Law is for the sale of "pistol gripped firearms". You must be 21 YOA, because it is not a shotgun.

 

 

he is correct.. I did not read it as "sale" I skimmed the news letter.. my mistake...

[PK90 3,570]

I have a contact with the CHPD. He was not aware of this incident. Update to follow.

 

 

[DJNEB 1]

I also would like to add that I upon being stopped by police they asked for my papers on the purchasing the gun. I said I did not have them with me. They then asked for my FID and I said That was in wallet. They ran a check from the serial number on the gun and saw I purchased it that same day and That my record was clear.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I have a contact with the CHPD. He was not aware of this incident. Update to follow.

 

+1000000000

[PK90 3,570]

I am so pissed right now. friggin JBTs.