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Saiga Conversion Information

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Basic Saiga Conversion Help.. (as best I understand it)

 

I have gotten several PMs about the Saiga over time.. so just wanted to make a single thread with some information in it to make it easier the next time someone has a question..

 

this is basically a copy of a PM I sent with a little bit of extra info..

 

In converting a Saiga in NJ you have two birds to kill..

 

NJ assault weapon ban... and 922 compliance..

 

NJ assault weapon ban...

 

is the gun specifically listed as being banned by name? NO it is a clone.. so that means it is legal as long as you play the evil features game...

 

a semi automatic rifle is to be considered substantially identical if it has a detachable magazine and at least TWO of the following features...

 

* Pistol grip (this is the ONE "evil feature" you will have)

* bayonet lug (CAN'T HAVE)

* flash hider or threaded barrel capable of accepting a flash hider (if you want a muzzle BRAKE you can have it.. just needs to be pinned and welded)

* folding or telescopic stock (CAN'T HAVE)

* grenade launcher (CAN'T HAVE)

 

so a standard Saiga is good to go per NJ AWB laws providing you follow that info..

 

next is 922 compliance.. the gun is imported as a sporting rifle (low capacity magazine, no pistol grip, etc.) if you negate the sporting function (adding higher cap magazine, and pistol grip.. you need to take the total amount of imported parts present on the rifle.. and replace them with US made parts..

 

http://gunwiki.net/G...erifyCompliance

 

the gun comes with 14 countable parts... these are foreign parts you will replace with US parts... you need to get the parts count down to 10... I recommend 9 just so there is a buffer.. you can NOT count parts that are not there yet..

 

meaning ADDING a US made pistol grip cancels itself out.. there was no pistol grip on the rifle when it was imported..

adding a foreign pistol grip would add an additional part to the original list.. making one more part to make up for..

adding a US made one cancels itself out because you go from 14 countable parts.. to 15.. but then since it is a US made pistol grip the part comes back off.. leaving the overall count unchanged..

 

most people do the following for simple compliance..

US made stock - 1 part

US made pistol grip - no change

US made fire control group (I recommend Tapco G2 they are great..) - 3 parts

US made hand guard - 1 part

 

this would get you down to 9 foreign parts total netting a rifle that is 922 compliant..

 

at the end of all this you end up with a gun that is both 922 and NJ compliant..

 

the Saiga will accept most standard AK furniture with the exception of the front hand guard.. if you want to use an AK front hand guard you will need to use an AK hand guard retainer for the bottom (and a standard AK gas tube for the top (Credit to Lunker +1 for reminding me!).. there are companies that sell ones that bolt on (Dinzag) or you can rip the gun completely apart and press on an actual AK one.. I have had good luck with the bolt on version.. and it is simple enough..

 

last is the consideration of magazines... since I can not use "high capacity" magazines in NJ.. I chose to use US made plastic mags (Surefire) they work well and are so far durable.. (couple years of hard use)

 

once I leave the communist state of NJ I will use metal military surplus magazines.. to use these you need to install a bullet guide.. this is a relatively inexpensive modification, but requires patience as the metal you will be drilling into is VERY hard.... the bullet guide is a little lip/ramp that is installed in the gun directly in front of the magazine that allows the round to be pushed up ready for fire.. to use mil surp mags you will also need to SLOWLY grind a little off of the mag catch to get standard AK magazines to lock in.. If you go slowly enough you will reach a point where both mil spec AK mags and Saiga mags can be used... the key is to go slowly you can always take more metal off but if you go too far too fast you will need to replace the entire mag catch which is annoying..

 

saigafcgexpl.jpg

 

Saigas I have owned

 

Gun is NO LONGER in NJ thus NOT NJ compliant..

 

saiga762finalvlad.JPG

 

 

 

saiga762finalvlad2.JPG

 

saiga762finalvlad3.JPG

 

saiga762finalvlad4.JPG

 

Saiga 7.62x39

 

Magpul CTR

Ace Pignose Adapter

Ace Internal Block

Dinzag Tapco G2 FCG

Hogue Grip

Tromix Bolt On Charging Handle

Mil Surplus 30 Round Magazine

Kvar Lower Handguard

CSS Lower Handguard Retainer

Ultimak Gas Tube

Vltor Quick Release Flashlight Mount

Surefire G2

Aimpoint H1

 

saigatara2.jpg

 

standard conversion..

 

Saiga 5.45x39

AK Gas tube

Bolt on lower retainer

Tapco wood

Tapco G2

 

cleaned and refinished whole gun..

 

saiga12finalvlad.JPG

 

Saiga 12 polished and reprofiled bolt

Otherwise left in factory configuration to comply with NJ semi-automatic shotgun laws..

 

saiga.jpg

 

Saiga 7.62x39

Ace Internal Block

Ace Stock

Hogue Pistol Grip

Tapco FCG

Surefire Magazine (15rd I live in NJ)

Ultimak Hand Guard

Magpul AFG

Viking Tactics G2 Light Mount

Surefire G2

Viking Tactics Low Profile Swivel Mount With Quick Release

Ultimak Gas Tube

Aimpoint H1

 

kvar1hr7.jpg

 

Saiga 223

Kvar Stock

Tapco FCG

Tapco Saw Pistol Grip

Tapco Hand Guard (with covered rail)

Dinzag Lower Hand Guard Retainer

AK Gas Tube

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Great writeup, especially considering I was recently looking for this information due to somehow being brainwashed into considering a saiga conversion project! I wonder from who's posts..... ;) +1

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Saigas I have helped some good friends with..

 

saigabuildfriendedit.jpg

 

Saiga 7.62x39

Tapco Stock

Tapco Saw Pistol Grip

Tapco FCG

Surefire Magazine

 

 

njsaiga545.jpg

 

 

Saiga 5.45x39

AK Gas tube

Bolt on lower retainer

Tapco wood had to shorten LOP on stock a little for her.. lol

Tapco G2

Pinned 15 round magazine (floor plate sealed)

 

 

 

 

p_saiga.jpg

 

Factory Saiga for comparison..

 

 

Great writeup, especially considering I was recently looking for this information due to somehow being brainwashed into considering a saiga conversion project! I wonder from who's posts..... ;) +1

 

 

thanks tried to be as complete as possible.. I am sure there is info I am forgetting (maybe? lol)

 

if you have any other questions about the conversion and post them here I would be more than happy to try to help.. I am not a know it all or anything.. BUT I do have a certain love for THIS rifle.. lol

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Nice writeup.

 

There are also a good number of youtube vids out there but this one is the one I used for reference.

 

 

 

agreed.. my little snippet is by no means an instructional on HOW to do it.. but more a general understanding of what is involved to keep it legal.. that video looks great by the way..

 

I remember when I did my first conversion I couldn't even find videos.. I had to use that site that had the out dated info.. with the different steps..

 

the most annoying part is getting the BHO installed back in the gun IF you decide to keep it..

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the most annoying part is getting the BHO installed back in the gun IF you decide to keep it..

 

Hell yeah! At one point I was ready to scrap it and just put a washer in place to keep the fcg centered. But after having endured the pain (used dental floss and a dental pick) I'm glad I kept it. Most RSO's get nervous about AK's if you don't have a chamber flag handy so the ability to keep the bolt locked back has been a big plus for me.

 

A lot of AK "purists" look down on a BHO but I ignore them because let's face it, it's my rifle and I'll do what I want to it.

 

Oh and I ground down the BHO tab a bit too so it doesn't get in the way of my trigger finger.

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Hell yeah! At one point I was ready to scrap it and just put a washer in place to keep the fcg centered. But after having endured the pain (used dental floss and a dental pick) I'm glad I kept it. Most RSO's get nervous about AK's if you don't have a chamber flag handy so the ability to keep the bolt locked back has been a big plus for me.

 

A lot of AK "purists" look down on a BHO but I ignore them because let's face it, it's my rifle and I'll do what I want to it.

 

Oh and I ground down the BHO tab a bit too so it doesn't get in the way of my trigger finger.

 

 

maybe I have odd form or something.. but the BHO has never bothered me when shooting.. and I agree that it is a useful function when at the range..

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Noob questions:

 

1. What is that doodad between the magazine and the trigger guard?

 

2. Seems there would be enough demand for a person to start a company selling NJ compliant weapons. Someone with FFL that could have the NJ illegal weapons and convert them and sell them. Is there a reason no one sells NJ converted ones? Or are they just not in demand?

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Noob questions:

 

1. What is that doodad between the magazine and the trigger guard?

 

2. Seems there would be enough demand for a person to start a company selling NJ compliant weapons. Someone with FFL that could have the NJ illegal weapons and convert them and sell them. Is there a reason no one sells NJ converted ones? Or are they just not in demand?

 

 

that is the mag catch.. holds the magazine in place..

 

not sure why no one in NJ converts and sells them, or works on them.. I have met several people who just didn't feel comfortable cutting up a brand new gun...... they are really fun to do.. being unemployed that would actually be a dream job.. LOL

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that is the mag catch.. holds the magazine in place..

 

not sure why no one in NJ converts and sells them, or works on them.. I have met several people who just didn't feel comfortable cutting up a brand new gun...... they are really fun to do.. being unemployed that would actually be a dream job.. LOL

 

You should post something along the lines of a business plan on converting Saigas to Fed & NJ compliant variations for a per-gun fee. The shops can have you convert then, then sell them for a reasonable profit. Sounds like a win win to me as I bet there are a ton of people out there that just don't want to take the plunge at the "hand on" experience part.. and skip right owning one.

 

I know there are companies out there that do this, but it seems they are always out of stock, overpriced, or not NJ compliant.

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You should post something along the lines of a business plan on converting Saigas to Fed & NJ compliant variations for a per-gun fee. The shops can have you convert then, then sell them for a reasonable profit. Sounds like a win win to me as I bet there are a ton of people out there that just don't want to take the plunge at the "hand on" experience part.. and skip right owning one.

 

I know there are companies out there that do this, but it seems they are always out of stock, overpriced, or not NJ compliant.

 

 

I would do that without ANY hesitation.. and I am not technically "building" a gun.. so would I even need to be a "gun smith"?

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Basic Saiga Conversion Help.. (as best I understand it)

 

I have gotten several PMs about the Saiga over time.. so just wanted to make a single thread with some information in it to make it easier the next time someone has a question..

 

this is basically a copy of a PM I sent with a little bit of extra info..

 

In converting a Saiga in NJ you have two birds to kill..

 

NJ assault weapon ban... and 922 compliance..

 

NJ assault weapon ban...

 

is the gun specifically listed as being banned by name? NO it is a clone.. so that means it is legal as long as you play the evil features game...

 

a semi automatic rifle is to be considered substantially identical if it has a detachable magazine and at least TWO of the following features...

 

* Pistol grip (this is the ONE "evil feature" you will have)

* bayonet lug (CAN'T HAVE)

* flash hider or threaded barrel capable of accepting a flash hider (if you want a muzzle BRAKE you can have it.. just needs to be pinned and welded)

* folding or telescopic stock (CAN'T HAVE)

* grenade launcher (CAN'T HAVE)

 

so a standard Saiga is good to go per NJ AWB laws providing you follow that info..

 

next is 922 compliance.. the gun is imported as a sporting rifle (low capacity magazine, no pistol grip, etc.) if you negate the sporting function (adding higher cap magazine, and pistol grip.. you need to take the total amount of imported parts present on the rifle.. and replace them with US made parts..

 

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance

 

the gun comes with 14 countable parts... these are foreign parts you will replace with US parts... you need to get the parts count down to 10... I recommend 9 just so there is a buffer.. you can NOT count parts that are not there yet..

 

meaning ADDING a US made pistol grip cancels itself out.. there was no pistol grip on the rifle when it was imported..

adding a foreign pistol grip would add an additional part to the original list.. making one more part to make up for..

adding a US made one cancels itself out because you go from 14 countable parts.. to 15.. but then since it is a US made pistol grip the part comes back off.. leaving the overall count unchanged..

 

most people do the following for simple compliance..

US made stock - 1 part

US made pistol grip - no change

US made fire control group (I recommend Tapco G2 they are great..) - 3 parts

US made hand guard - 1 part

 

this would get you down to 9 foreign parts total netting a rifle that is 922 compliant..

 

at the end of all this you end up with a gun that is both 922 and NJ compliant..

 

the Saiga will accept most standard AK furniture with the exception of the front hand guard.. if you want to use an AK front hand guard you will need to use an AK hand guard retainer for the bottom (and a standard AK gas tube for the top (Credit to Lunker +1 for reminding me!).. there are companies that sell ones that bolt on (Dinzag) or you can rip the gun completely apart and press on an actual AK one.. I have had good luck with the bolt on version.. and it is simple enough..

 

last is the consideration of magazines... since I can not use "high capacity" magazines in NJ.. I chose to use US made plastic mags (Surefire) they work well and are so far durable.. (couple years of hard use)

 

once I leave the communist state of NJ I will use metal military surplus magazines.. to use these you need to install a bullet guide.. this is a relatively inexpensive modification, but requires patience as the metal you will be drilling into is VERY hard.... the bullet guide is a little lip/ramp that is installed in the gun directly in front of the magazine that allows the round to be pushed up ready for fire.. to use mil surp mags you will also need to SLOWLY grind a little off of the mag catch to get standard AK magazines to lock in..

 

My Saiga.. one of my old ones.. and one I did for a friend..

 

saiga.jpg

 

Saiga 7.62x39

Ace Internal Block

Ace Stock

Hogue Pistol Grip

Tapco FCG

Surefire Magazine (15rd I live in NJ)

Ultimak Hand Guard

Magpul AFG

Viking Tactics G2 Light Mount

Surefire G2

Viking Tactics Low Profile Swivel Mount With Quick Release

Ultimak Gas Tube

Aimpoint H1

 

kvar1hr7.jpg

 

Saiga 223

Kvar Stock

Tapco FCG

Tapco Saw Pistol Grip

Tapco Hand Guard (with covered rail)

Dinzag Lower Hand Guard Retainer

AK Gas Tube

 

 

saigabuildfriendedit.jpg

 

Saiga 7.62x39

Tapco Stock

Tapco Saw Pistol Grip

Tapco FCG

Surefire Magazine

 

p_saiga.jpg

 

Factory Saiga for comparison..

 

 

Help I am lost. Arsenal Inc web site says a Saiga SGL24 is ok for NJ and pic shows a pistol grip?? So why modify?

 

While I am at it -what about the EAA Zapasta or whatever?

 

Thanks.

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Help I am lost. Arsenal Inc web site says a Saiga SGL24 is ok for NJ and pic shows a pistol grip?? So why modify?

 

While I am at it -what about the EAA Zapasta or whatever?

 

Thanks.

 

because arsenal guns are $700+ you can do it yourself for a lot less.. even with someone "helping you" it would probably be substantially less.. AND on top of that you get to pick whatever furniture YOU want..

 

the PAP is an OK gun but I prefer the Russian builds.. PAPs require specific magazines and so on..

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Vlad - Dan's idea is golden!!! you'd probably end up charging way less for a complete rifle than Century and people can pick and choose accessories. If it would be worth your time - it could be an excellent little side business. Look into it - you may have a few NJGF customers lined up already. Myself included, as soon as I can scrape up the cash. Do some calculations, put together a price list and see what happens. There's no $ investment for you unless you really want to advertise - people can order the parts and buy the rifle themselves or any combination thereof and you do the conversion. Good luck, let us know what you come up with!

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Here is another example of what others charge to do the conversion (labor only)

http://overlandindustries.com/kits.php

"We also perform "professionally grade" Saiga conversions, back half is $150.00, and front half is $100.00 (labor only, you supply the parts). Saiga conversion do not include a full refinish as described below, just touch up of areas worked on"

So total $250 plus shipping both ways(average $25 each way) =$300

Any less than than $250 for labor is a bargain(maybe $200-$225 for the members here :icon_e_biggrin: )

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On Tapco's website they say several places that the G2 trigger group isn't meant for Saiga's, is this the right part?

 

Tapco AK G2

 

Or is there a different part I can't see?

 

Thanks! This is a very good thread with great information. I bought my first Saiga 7.62x39 today!

 

-Dave

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On Tapco's website they say several places that the G2 trigger group isn't meant for Saiga's, is this the right part?

 

Tapco AK G2

 

Or is there a different part I can't see?

 

Thanks! This is a very good thread with great information. I bought my first Saiga 7.62x39 today!

 

-Dave

That will work on a Saiga. There are a crapload of converted saigas out there with G2 triggers.

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Most saigas are pre cut for an ak single hook fire control group... In factory form you can not use it in Saiga so that is probably what they mean... A Saiga converted will take any ak single hook fcg.. Double hook required cutting... Further.. If you retain the bolt hold open feature... Then you need to shave it down because it is too wide.. Some retailers like dinzag sell ones already shaved down...

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I have been looking up the conversion, and it just seems to take some time and hand tools, a drill at most. I have the parts in a "shopping cart" online, planning to order them tomorrow or Friday. Looking forward to this conversion.

 

Side note. Does anybody know if the trigger guard is considered one of the 14 parts?

 

Edit:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings *

(2) Barrels *

(3) Barrel extensions

(4) Mounting blocks (trunions) *

(5) Muzzle attachments *

(6) Bolts *

(7) Bolt carriers *

(8) Operating rods

(9) Gas pistons *

(10) Trigger housings

(11) Triggers *

(12) Hammers *

(13) Sears

(14) Disconnectors *

(15) Buttstocks *

(16) Pistol grips *

(17) Forearms, handguards *

(18) Magazine bodies *

(19) Followers *

(20) Floorplates *

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I have been looking up the conversion, and it just seems to take some time and hand tools, a drill at most. I have the parts in a "shopping cart" online, planning to order them tomorrow or Friday. Looking forward to this conversion.

 

Side note. Does anybody know if the trigger guard is considered one of the 14 parts?

 

Edit:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings *

(2) Barrels *

(3) Barrel extensions

(4) Mounting blocks (trunions) *

(5) Muzzle attachments *

(6) Bolts *

(7) Bolt carriers *

(8) Operating rods

(9) Gas pistons *

(10) Trigger housings

(11) Triggers *

(12) Hammers *

(13) Sears

(14) Disconnectors *

(15) Buttstocks *

(16) Pistol grips *

(17) Forearms, handguards *

(18) Magazine bodies *

(19) Followers *

(20) Floorplates *

 

you need a dremel as well IMO..

 

trigger guard is not a countable part as far as I know.. I do not know what a trigger housing is..

 

fire control group is 3 alone..

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Trigger guard is a no-go, this is a trigger housing:

GI%20trigger%20housing.jpg

 

I will be fine with the parts I currently have in mind, I will just make sure that I use U.S. mags, and I will be at 10. Once I get a little more coin, I can get a better handguard that is U.S. made.

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was wondering if anyone has experience with the safety selecter replacement by Blackjack Buffer(?),the SWIFT lever? Also would it make sense to do a bullet guide at this time (conversion) or would it somehow interfere with the current mags?

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was wondering if anyone has experience with the safety selecter replacement by Blackjack Buffer(?),the SWIFT lever? Also would it make sense to do a bullet guide at this time (conversion) or would it somehow interfere with the current mags?

 

 

here is the deal with Magazines...

 

The Saiga stock does not have a bullet guide... a bullet guide is a little metal feed ramp that allows the round to be pushed up into the gun... with a Saiga the bullet guide is built into the magazine... this is what prevents you from using AK47 magazines right off of the shelf... I chose not to do the bullet guide when I did the conversion.. the reason I chose not to do it is because it can be a pain in the a**, and there are several magazine options made exclusively for Saigas (Surefire work well for me).. and since I can not use 30 round mil surplus magazines I saw no point in doing the bullet guide.. now that I plan to move to a free state I will without question be looking into a bullet guide.. as far as the magazine compatibility this is how it works.. stock Saiga will need two things to accept mil spec AK47 magazines... 1)a bullet guide.. if you install one.. get a high quality drill bit and go SLOW.. the metal you are drilling is pretty hard.. 2)you will need to file down the mag catch ever so slightly.... if you file the mag catch down and go VERY slowly you can reach a point where BOTH mil surplus AND Saiga specific magazines work.. make sure you function check ALL magazines you intend to use since magazines can be slightly out of spec one to the other.. I would also shoot a mag fully loaded to empty several times before assuming it works correctly..

 

just take it all slow if you do the bullet guide and you will be fine.. in retrospect I should have just done it while the gun was apart..

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I think that if you intend to do a bullet guide, it will be better to do it while the gun is apart. It is a relatively cheap part, roughly $15.

 

Yep but take your time and get a drill press if at all possible. That $15 part can easily turn into an expensive receiver repair. There is one guy at the saiga forum who swears that using JB Weld on his bullet guide was good enough as it is a non-stress bearing part. All I can say is that I'm glad that's not my rifle...

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JB Weld is some tough crap, and no it's not a stress bearing part.....but no way in hell would I trust that in my rifle.

 

I hope to get a drill press soon, that's probably the next tool on my list, but for this first conversion I will be carefully using a hand drill. I'm not doing the bullet guide for this conversion, at least not yet. Was going to order one with the rest of the parts, but the site only had flat trunion, not round trunion.

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