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NJ & Paper Fingerprint Cards - Florida CCW

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Hey Folks!

 

I haven't been around for awhile, and can't seem to get into my original account. Just wanted to post something that may be helpful for others.

 

I'm a transplant to NJ, and my resident CCW permit from back home is expiring in March. Now living here in NJ with the impossibiility of a home-State CCW, I took a Florida/Utah CCW class in January, and have already received my Utah CCW. After cashing my application check fast, and then sitting on my application, Florida kicked it back to me by rejecting my fingerprint card. Mind you, I have Federal clearance and a TWIC plus an NJ FPID plus my former home-State CCW and Utah's so my fingerprints are in the system and have been for decades now. The fingerprints were taken by the retired LEO running the class, and who has been doing the class for years! I called my local PD and they wouldn't do it, and neither would the State Police because of the Sagem Morpho contract! So I called and talked to the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services and was informed in no uncertain terms that Florida is cracking down and will not accept any application with fingerprinting that is not completed by strictly by a law enforcement agency to which an ORI code is included or can be looked up! I explained what I was told by my local police department and the State Police, and quite directly their response was "that's your burden." I even asked could I have my electronic fingerprints transferred (I have the ability to have mine sent to any agency from Sagem Morpho), and was told that they are only setup for Florida residents for any electronic printing (why that is, I don't know). My last chance for a NJ law enforcement agency was to try the county sheriff, and guess what? The sheriff was happy to do it, and at no charge, and had me come over within minutes of our conversation!

 

NJ is just plain tough with anything related to handguns. I feel fortunate that I was able to get my FPID in just 26 days, and my local PD will give me 1 permit every 30 days for handgun purchase - I know that's actually in violation of the NJ regulations to administer it this way, but I'm not ruffling the feathers of a small-town police chief who does, in fact, give me the purchase permits without any more battle than the wait (and I have used 23 purchase permits in my time living here - I just get one each month regardless because I am a collector). I am also thankful to the sheriff who can still see the bigger picture!

 

If anyone runs into fingerprinting issues - DO NOT use a fingerprint service provider for the Florida CCW as they'll 100% for certain reject it now! Try the sheriff if you can't beg the local PD to do it.

 

My best,

Rob

_____________________________________________

NRA Lifer & Distinguished Expert

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Hey Folks!

 

I haven't been around for awhile, and can't seem to get into my original account. Just wanted to post something that may be helpful for others.

 

I'm a transplant to NJ, and my resident CCW permit from back home is expiring in March. Now living here in NJ with the impossibiility of a home-State CCW, I took a Florida/Utah CCW class in January, and have already received my Utah CCW. After cashing my application check fast, and then sitting on my application, Florida kicked it back to me by rejecting my fingerprint card. Mind you, I have Federal clearance and a TWIC plus an NJ FPID plus my former home-State CCW and Utah's so my fingerprints are in the system and have been for decades now. The fingerprints were taken by the retired LEO running the class, and who has been doing the class for years! I called my local PD and they wouldn't do it, and neither would the State Police because of the Sagem Morpho contract! So I called and talked to the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services and was informed in no uncertain terms that Florida is cracking down and will not accept any application with fingerprinting that is not completed by strictly by a law enforcement agency to which an ORI code is included or can be looked up! I explained what I was told by my local police department and the State Police, and quite directly their response was "that's your burden." I even asked could I have my electronic fingerprints transferred (I have the ability to have mine sent to any agency from Sagem Morpho), and was told that they are only setup for Florida residents for any electronic printing (why that is, I don't know). My last chance for a NJ law enforcement agency was to try the county sheriff, and guess what? The sheriff was happy to do it, and at no charge, and had me come over within minutes of our conversation!

 

NJ is just plain tough with anything related to handguns. I feel fortunate that I was able to get my FPID in just 26 days, and my local PD will give me 1 permit every 30 days for handgun purchase - I know that's actually in violation of the NJ regulations to administer it this way, but I'm not ruffling the feathers of a small-town police chief who does, in fact, give me the purchase permits without any more battle than the wait (and I have used 23 purchase permits in my time living here - I just get one each month regardless because I am a collector). I am also thankful to the sheriff who can still see the bigger picture!

 

If anyone runs into fingerprinting issues - DO NOT use a fingerprint service provider for the Florida CCW as they'll 100% for certain reject it now! Try the sheriff if you can't beg the local PD to do it.

 

My best,

Rob

_____________________________________________

NRA Lifer & Distinguished Expert

 

Not sure where you had yours done, but I went through GFH (Gun for Hire) up in Belleville and had no issues at all. My non resident application was processed very quickly. I have also been printed by GFH for my AZ permit, next will be UT and VA and don't expect any issues either. One thing that AZ did require was to have 2 finger print cards sent in just in case one wasn't good but other than that, no problems.

 

Nice to know you found a place to do the cards.

 

Welcome to the Un-free USA (aka NJ)

 

Harry

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Hey Rob,

New Jersey has been under contract with MorphoTrak (formerly SagemMorpho) going on 8 years or so. The purpose of state going to an outside vendor for fingerprinting for noncriminal justice licensing purpose was to relieve law enforcement from the burden of NCJ fingerprinting and allow them to do what they're paid to do. Post 9/11 saw an onslaught of legislation that required fingerprint based licensing of just about everything. Local law enforcement was severely taxed by the wave. MorphoTrak only fingerprints for NJ licensing purposes. Local law enforcement will and should fingerprint you for outside of NJ purposes on either their live scan machines, state provided ink and roll cards or applicant provided cards. Electronic transmission to out of state entities is not possible through the NJ set up. The NJSP should talk to the local PD if you give them a call and explain your situation.

John

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Not sure where you had yours done, but I went through GFH (Gun for Hire) up in Belleville and had no issues at all. My non resident application was processed very quickly. I have also been printed by GFH for my AZ permit, next will be UT and VA and don't expect any issues either. One thing that AZ did require was to have 2 finger print cards sent in just in case one wasn't good but other than that, no problems.

 

Nice to know you found a place to do the cards.

 

Welcome to the Un-free USA (aka NJ)

 

Harry

 

Another of the pluses of AZ over FL is that AZ does not require an LEO to do the printing. :icon_e_biggrin:

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I also used Gun for Hire. They have off duty LEOs do the fingerprinting so they get it right. Also they review the application to make sure you don't make a mistake that would get the application kicked back for clerical reasons. Such as using an abbreviation when the words need to be spelled out.

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I had mine done in October for my FL renewal by the local PD. No issues other than they charge $10 for non-law enforcement printing, and had to make an appointment with the evidence room guy since he is the one who does it and is the sole evidence clerk for the county here. Relatively pain free. Have to do it again for my VA renewal in a few months, and he told me to just call him for an appointment.

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Hey Rob,

New Jersey has been under contract with MorphoTrak (formerly SagemMorpho) going on 8 years or so. The purpose of state going to an outside vendor for fingerprinting for noncriminal justice licensing purpose was to relieve law enforcement from the burden of NCJ fingerprinting and allow them to do what they're paid to do. Post 9/11 saw an onslaught of legislation that required fingerprint based licensing of just about everything. Local law enforcement was severely taxed by the wave. MorphoTrak only fingerprints for NJ licensing purposes. Local law enforcement will and should fingerprint you for outside of NJ purposes on either their live scan machines, state provided ink and roll cards or applicant provided cards. Electronic transmission to out of state entities is not possible through the NJ set up. The NJSP should talk to the local PD if you give them a call and explain your situation.

John

 

I originally thought it was just my local PD, but I did in fact go to the NJSP and talked to both the desk Sgt. and Det. Sgt at the local barricks, with my new FL fingerprint card in-hand, and was told no-deal! Yes, I told them it was for an out-of-state background check at the same time the Det. Sgt. was looking at the card and recognized it as the FL CCW by the pre-printed 790.06 on the card. He told me he printed 100s of people for this in the past, but said they were no longer allowed to.

 

I'm in the southern part of the State, so not GFH, but you can probably guess the class down here, especially since I indicated he's retired LEO. I have been told by another helpful forum member that off-duty NJ LEOs doing this can, but if they get permission from their superiors because FL is now verifying the validity via ORI # of the law enforcement agency. The person I spoke with at the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services indicated that more than a hundred January 2011 applications were kicked back because of this very issue.

 

Interesting finding too is that I actually was in touch with two people from my class (belong to my range) and learned that one was granted their FL CCW, and the other kicked back for the same reason as me - we were all fingerprinted at the same time, same person! Sounds like FL maybe doing spot checks on application particulars?

 

If others have gotten the NJSP to do this in 2011, can you tell me the barricks so I can refer my classmate if he has no luck with his county sheriff?

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You need to contact the NJSP State Bureau of Identification in West Trenton. They will contact the locals and or the barracks that either are mis-informed or just being a PIA. Not sure on FLEs issues with ORIs and LEOs doing the printing...I would imagine it's a chain of custody thing. Easy for someone to take a blank card and have their non-felon friend slap their prints down. Anyway, contact the SBI if you run into problems in the future.

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Hey Rob,

New Jersey has been under contract with MorphoTrak (formerly SagemMorpho) going on 8 years or so. The purpose of state going to an outside vendor for fingerprinting for noncriminal justice licensing purpose was to relieve law enforcement from the burden of NCJ fingerprinting and allow them to do what they're paid to do. Post 9/11 saw an onslaught of legislation that required fingerprint based licensing of just about everything. Local law enforcement was severely taxed by the wave. MorphoTrak only fingerprints for NJ licensing purposes. Local law enforcement will and should fingerprint you for outside of NJ purposes on either their live scan machines, state provided ink and roll cards or applicant provided cards. Electronic transmission to out of state entities is not possible through the NJ set up. The NJSP should talk to the local PD if you give them a call and explain your situation.

John

 

I figured the reason the state now uses MorphoTrak is because the CEO, Boardmembers, or major share holders have a connection to someone in the gov't. That's usually how it works in NJ!

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I figured the reason the state now uses MorphoTrak is because the CEO, Boardmembers, or major share holders have a connection to someone in the gov't. That's usually how it works in NJ!

 

Not in this case but your cynicism is of course warranted...lol.

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Why would you send for both? There are no states the a VA permit has reciprocity with that FL doesn't.

 

As a matter of fact, the closes you can get to all 50 states is 44, and you would need 13 permits to get there.

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Why would you send for both? There are no states the a VA permit has reciprocity with that FL doesn't.

 

As a matter of fact, the closes you can get to all 50 states is 44, and you would need 13 permits to get there.

 

Many follow Ayoob's advice to have multiple non-resident permits since the reciprocity changes dynamically, plus you might like to have a backup if you meet up with a Philly LEO who thinks they can confiscate the CCW you present along with whatever handgun you're carrying (they have done this, many times, and good luck ever seeing them again). Note very few States, like Utah for instance, actively pursue WRITTEN reciprocal agreements. Personally I will be happy to have FL be my backup to Utah (plus I have ME and NH where I camp and hunt). I'd go with an AZ before a VA, personally because of the lower cost and better non-resident reciprocity for a backup. What hurts is losing my WV resident because that gave me SC where I spend much time on business and R&R plus many other States.

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Many follow Ayoob's advice to have multiple non-resident permits since the reciprocity changes dynamically, plus you might like to have a backup if you meet up with a Philly LEO who thinks they can confiscate the CCW you present along with whatever handgun you're carrying (they have done this, many times, and good luck ever seeing them again). Note very few States, like Utah for instance, actively pursue WRITTEN reciprocal agreements. Personally I will be happy to have FL be my backup to Utah (plus I have ME and NH where I camp and hunt). I'd go with an AZ before a VA, personally because of the lower cost and better non-resident reciprocity for a backup. What hurts is losing my WV resident because that gave me SC where I spend much time on business and R&R plus many other States.

 

In addition to that FL only accepts FL non-resident CCW. So if you want to carry in FL, like myself, you need it.

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Many follow Ayoob's advice to have multiple non-resident permits since the reciprocity changes dynamically, plus you might like to have a backup if you meet up with a Philly LEO who thinks they can confiscate the CCW you present along with whatever handgun you're carrying (they have done this, many times, and good luck ever seeing them again). Note very few States, like Utah for instance, actively pursue WRITTEN reciprocal agreements. Personally I will be happy to have FL be my backup to Utah (plus I have ME and NH where I camp and hunt). I'd go with an AZ before a VA, personally because of the lower cost and better non-resident reciprocity for a backup. What hurts is losing my WV resident because that gave me SC where I spend much time on business and R&R plus many other States.

 

Fair enough. I still don't know that I'd get a VA one if I'm getting one that covers all the same states, and more, just on the off chance it gets confiscated.

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Does anyone know if Florida now accepts New Jersey's "Identogo" electronic fingerprints, or do they still need to be done on paper and ink by law enforcement?  The Florida website appeared vague and made no sigificant mention of differing nonresident requirements.  If I missed the link on their page about this...I apologize in advance.

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17 minutes ago, father-of-three said:

Does anyone know if Florida now accepts New Jersey's "Identogo" electronic fingerprints, or do they still need to be done on paper and ink by law enforcement?  The Florida website appeared vague and made no sigificant mention of differing nonresident requirements.  If I missed the link on their page about this...I apologize in advance.

Welcome to the forum, from a former NJ'ian and current Floridian.

Unfortunately, the answer to your question is "no," per this document from the Florida DOACS website.

https://laso.freshfromflorida.com/documentTemplates/LASO_FP_Instructions.pdf

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3 hours ago, father-of-three said:

Thank you HB.  I had  feeling based on what I was reading...

I went through this about a year ago.  They want you to use the fingerprint cards they send you. The print MUST be take taken at a law enforcement agency. The LEOs name and PD code has to be filled out.

The hard part is finding a PD that still has the ink and roller! Th NJSP would not do it for me and I wound up begging a cop I knew in my town so he spent 2 hours searching until he found the ink and stuff buried in an old cabinet! Good luck!

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Why would you send for both? There are no states the a VA permit has reciprocity with that FL doesn't.

 

As a matter of fact, the closes you can get to all 50 states is 44, and you would need 13 permits to get there.

 

Do you have a list of those 13 permits we are able to get 44 states and a complete list of all the Non-Resident Permits we are able to get as NJ Residents without a home state CCW. I am a collector and I figure I might as well collect as many CCW Permits as I can. Makes showing additional forms of ID easy, keeps ahead of changing reprococity agreements, and I like collecting things.

 

To the original question yes you need to use Florida ink fingerprint card. My local PD did it for free. Florida also requires class but NJ Hunting License satisfies that part.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, capt14k said:

 


Do you have a list of those 13 permits we are able to get 44 states and a complete list of all the Non-Resident Permits we are able to get as NJ Residents without a home state CCW. I am a collector and I figure I might as well collect as many CCW Permits as I can. Makes showing additional forms of ID easy, keeps ahead of changing reprococity agreements, and I like collecting things.


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You can best track it though the USA Carry Reciprocity Website...  You can see what combination of non-res permits you would need to cover most of the states you'd want. Click on the states where you have permits and it will say what other states honor them.

For me, I have FL (Res) and UT/AZ (Non-Res) and I'm pretty much covered where I want to be.   I don't need to be anywhere else my permits aren't honored.   

 

 

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You can best track it though the USA Carry Reciprocity Website...  You can see what combination of non-res permits you would need to cover most of the states you'd want. Click on the states where you have permits and it will say what other states honor them.
For me, I have FL (Res) and UT/AZ (Non-Res) and I'm pretty much covered where I want to be.   I don't need to be anywhere else my permits aren't honored.   
 
 


I have Florida, Utah, NH and applications for AZ and CT but I was hoping to save myself some legwork if anyone had a complete list and what the 13 that equal 44 are.


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4 hours ago, father-of-three said:

Thank you HB.  I had  feeling based on what I was reading...

 

Originally, while still living in NJ (2014), I had taken the "Multi-State" CCW course offered by "ShootersonTarget.com."  It was offered at the Quinton Sportsmen's Club in Salem, NJ.  Sadly, it appears as though it is no longer offered there, as the site is gone. Oh well.  I'm sure there has to be someone offering to do paper prints for out of state apps. The course I took had a LEO who specialized in printing on site to take the prints. It was included in the course fee, along with the required app docs, photos, Notary services,  a bunch of stuff. And they also offered the live fire portion at the Quinton Sportsmen's club (BYOG and ammo).

Sorry they're no longer in business. They were pretty good.

 

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4 minutes ago, capt14k said:

 


I have Florida, Utah, NH and applications for AZ and CT but I was hoping to save myself some legwork if anyone had a complete list and what the 13 that equal 44 are.


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According to the site I mentioned above, if you include AZ and CT, the following would be the states that would *not* honor the five permits you currently have:

  NJ (obviously) :mad: ; NY ; PA, MD; MAss, RI, Maine, SC, MI, IL, MN, CO, Calif, OR. 

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According to the site I mentioned above, if you include AZ and CT, the following would be the states that would *not* honor the five permits you currently have:   NJ (obviously) :mad: ; NY ; PA, MD; MAss, RI, Maine, SC, MI, IL, MN, CO, Calif, OR.   

 

 So according to the previous poster 7 of those states I can get a CCW in as a NJ Resident. I assume NY, PA, CA, IL, Maryland and SC I can not. 

I can legally carry in Maine. They are Constitutional

 

 

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28 minutes ago, HBecwithFn7 said:

 

Originally, while still living in NJ (2014), I had taken the "Multi-State" CCW course offered by "ShootersonTarget.com."  It was offered at the Quinton Sportsmen's Club in Salem, NJ.  Sadly, it appears as though it is no longer offered there, as the site is gone. Oh well.  I'm sure there has to be someone offering to do paper prints for out of state apps. The course I took had a LEO who specialized in printing on site to take the prints. It was included in the course fee, along with the required app docs, photos, Notary services,  a bunch of stuff. And they also offered the live fire portion at the Quinton Sportsmen's club (BYOG and ammo).

Sorry they're no longer in business. They were pretty good.

 

I found a similar training in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania that does Utah, and additionally Florida.  When I got my Arizona permit 6 years ago, I had a lot of difficulty finding someone to do fingerprints.  I was grateful to have a PA trooper fingerprint me on his own time through someone from pafoa.org.  For the price the place I found in PA charges, the price is better than what I had to do to for my Arizona permit.  It will be my third carry permit, but I actually want the Florida permit just for Florida, and it lasts for 7 years.

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22 minutes ago, capt14k said:

 So according to the previous poster 7 of those states I can get a CCW in as a NJ Resident. I assume NY, PA, CA, IL, Maryland and SC I can not. 

I can legally carry in Maine. They are Constitutional

 

 

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I have no idea if you can get permits in those states. I know only that the site says which states honor the permits you have, and which do not.

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On 4/29/2018 at 7:47 PM, capt14k said:

I have Florida, Utah, NH and applications for AZ and CT but I was hoping to save myself some legwork if anyone had a complete list and what the 13 that equal 44 are.

I downloaded a app called CCW - Concealed Carry 50 State (I think it was $1.99), and you can plug in all your resident and non-resident permits, and it tells you where you can legally carry with reciprocity. Plus, it updates with new laws and state changes.

Makes for a good quick reference. When you select a state, it has the current CCW laws for that state.

Plus, you can do a "what if" scenario and plug in a new state to see how it affects your current list, to see if it's worth applying for that extra state CCW.

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I downloaded a app called CCW - Concealed Carry 50 State (I think it was $1.99), and you can plug in all your resident and non-resident permits, and it tells you where you can legally carry with reciprocity. Plus, it updates with new laws and state changes.
Makes for a good quick reference. When you select a state, it has the current CCW laws for that state.
Plus, you can do a "what if" scenario and plug in a new state to see how it affects your current list, to see if it's worth applying for that extra state CCW.
Thank you for app info. I have $25 im Google play credits from answering the Google Rewards Survey.

I want all the CCW Permits I can get I have to look one by one I suppose.

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