vladtepes 1,060 Posted February 23, 2011 After abusing my guns for some time.. the DPMS 308 went into single shot mode today.. sometimes it would kick out the spent casing.. other times it would not.. it got to the point where I was manually charging it after each round.. needless to say I am about to clean the hell out of it.. but any ideas off the top of your heads? as a side note I jammed the Saiga in snow and mud.. picked it up and then just fired away.. the gun treated the snow and mud like a fine oil and the gun actually ran better.. kidding about it running better of course.. but it did run without issue with with it being thrown in the snow and all.. lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted February 23, 2011 LUBE. If you feel like it for sh!ts and giggles. Pulle the bolt/carrier. Wipe it down, p!ss lube all over it. put it back and see if she continues to roll. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted February 23, 2011 LUBE. If you feel like it for sh!ts and giggles. Pulle the bolt/carrier. Wipe it down, p!ss lube all over it. put it back and see if she continues to roll. yeah thanks for the heads up.. that is what it felt like.. that it was just sticking a little.. I don't know man.. I know that from an accuracy stand point you just can't compare an AR and an AK.. but the way that the AK runs is just like a train.. non stop.. you know.. and smooth.. the ONLY reason I am even cleaning the thing tonight (the AK) is because it was in the dirt and water.. lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vjf915 456 Posted February 23, 2011 PM sent on CC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted February 23, 2011 I hear ya Vlad. This is where the latest greatest 308 ar platforms are doing "something" a little different. What it is I dont know but in particuler the MWS and KAC EMC have AKish reliability to go with the accuracy. My MWS has NOT been cleaned since I got it and I have at least 400 rounds down the pipe without even a wipe down. Zero malfs to date. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
axeman_g 128 Posted February 23, 2011 shane ... you got to stop throwing around $3000 acronyms! You are killing me. I need to go back to shooting sporting clays... it was much more affordable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superbee 2 Posted February 23, 2011 I tell ya after doing alot of research on snipershide, it seems like more and more people have issues with there DPMS.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted February 23, 2011 dpms 223 has issues. the dmps 308 is actually a pretty good gun. Apparently very accurate too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted February 23, 2011 The caveot there superbee is there is a LOT of DPMS's out there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted February 23, 2011 You mean like this Axe? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=217463231 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CageFighter 236 Posted February 23, 2011 You mean like this Axe? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=217463231 wholly sh*t! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
axeman_g 128 Posted February 23, 2011 Shane... I am beginning to regret meeting you. Actually I prefer... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=216623980 This gun makes me drool alot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted February 23, 2011 I think you and Sam are going to have me rubbed out! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tony357 386 Posted February 23, 2011 I think you all need to trade them in on one of these.. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=216444949 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 177 Posted February 23, 2011 Here's what I've learned over the years with my AR's when it comes to sticking bolt type things to keep in mind when you clean it. You probably already know this stuff, but going to throw it out there as it fixed a sticky bolt issue I had once before. - No lube on the bolt innards or bolt carrier chamber where the bolt fits into. If you insist , a light wipe with a dry film lube/protectant like eezox, let dry, wipe. More for corrosion resistance than anything else. - Clean the outside of the gas tube portion that extends into the upper receiver.. where the gas key fits onto. I've had situations where it got gummed up with lube/cleaning products, causing sticking as it moved into the gas key. Dental tools help there, as gunk can build up under the tube. - Conversely - clean out the gas key on the bolt carrier. There could be lube/cleaning product remnants inside there gumming it up also. Pipe cleaners work well there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wojo 98 Posted February 24, 2011 DPMS is not know for high quality parts. I when I attended an AR armorer course, the instructor passed around a bunch of parts he pulled from AR's he repaired and overwhelming majority of the components were DPMS stuff. Not sure who is in charge of QC there, Ray Charles or Helen Keller. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yazamitaz 0 Posted February 24, 2011 Shane, Gerry and Sam aren't going to rub you out, they speak too highly of you at Square Circle. I have never met you but have shot with Ger and Sam. All I can say is that I have never met you but have gun envy for all three of you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robot_hell 72 Posted February 24, 2011 How's the staking on the gas key? That was the problem with my Oly. Tightened up the screws and had it re-staked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superbee 2 Posted February 24, 2011 DPMS is not know for high quality parts. I when I attended an AR armorer course, the instructor passed around a bunch of parts he pulled from AR's he repaired and overwhelming majority of the components were DPMS stuff. Not sure who is in charge of QC there, Ray Charles or Helen Keller. Hmmmmmmm Like i said....Do the research....Even when you send it in for repairs they seem to make things worse...Just what i read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tactical Monkey 51 Posted February 24, 2011 Going to have to quickly step in and repeat what Maks said about DPMS quality issues. In an AR15 true (I would not own one), but in a LR-308 - they are very fine, very accurate, pieces of equipment. I mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted February 24, 2011 Ditto on Sam's statements with the addition that the superb aftermarket makes practically everything replaceable as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted February 24, 2011 The caveot there superbee is there is a LOT of DPMS's out there. I was gonna say, isn't DPMS and Bushmaster the most popular ones? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wojo 98 Posted February 24, 2011 Good enough or popular for the masses don't usually equal the highest quality. Doesn't mean everyone made is poor, but the QC standards and spec's might be off. Timex or Rolex, Chevy or Benz, White Castle or Ruth Chris, GSA Toilet paper or Charmin? You get my point. They all do the job, but some leave you with buyer's remorse...or a chapped butt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted February 24, 2011 pretty sure it was not a weapon issue... it was a cleaning issue.. I had purchased the gun used, and only lightly cleaned it a couple times.. pulled everything apart yesterday and it was filthy.. inside the bolt carrier was especially filthy.. do not take the weapons failure as a lack of quality.. I have read a great number of issues with the AR15.. but as others pointed out the 308 version runs well.. with everything clean the weapon even feels smoother.. I admittedly don't clean my guns as much as I "should"... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted February 24, 2011 Wojo, I was making the point in terms of Bank of America is robbed more because they have more branches . In other words in 308 AR pattern rifles there are a lot of DPMS's out there so you will see a higher frequency of issues purely as a result of quantity. With that being said, George (GAP) and Jarod (PAI) both build customs off of the DPMS platform. They NEVER would if it was substandard. In convo's with George, the real heart of a AR Pattern 308 Semi is the barrel. I know several that have simply swapped out the barrel and achieved outstanding results. Now for me.... I'm a snob and dont like extrusions. Thats my only hangup with DPMS. Not substandard, just not my preference. And as of late, I am in love with the ease of mounting any damn thing I want on monolithic rail rifles so thats all I own at this point Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wojo 98 Posted February 24, 2011 Shane, I'm not disagreeing with you or any of the DPMS crew. Even by your example, the custom shops pay attention to more details and takes the base model up a notch. This is what separates a Toyota from a Lexus, a Chevy to a Cadillac. The base model works, but those who demand a higher level of performance spend a little more money to tweak it to meet their expectations. You and I may call a rifle a POS if it can't group .5 MOA off a bag, where as 90% of the population is happy to hit black in a 3 MOA group. Granted, even if the US Post Office is 99.9998% on the money, that means there still is a butt load of mail is screwed up because of the sheer volume. But, I have held a bunch of parts in my own hands from DPMS that were passed around to the class and we were going WTF? I mean shear surfaces that were left in the rough, hammers that weren't true squared, elongated holes in the lowers etc. Yes, if .5% is bad, then that can equate to a lot of bad parts. By comparison, there were also a significant amount of parts from Olympic and considering how many less rifles are sold by them, the percentage of sub standard product is exponentially higher that they produce. Thankfully, the AR platform allows the end user to correct most of these issues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted February 24, 2011 Shane, I'm not disagreeing with you or any of the DPMS crew. Even by your example, the custom shops pay attention to more details and takes the base model up a notch. This is what separates a Toyota from a Lexus, a Chevy to a Cadillac. The base model works, but those who demand a higher level of performance spend a little more money to tweak it to meet their expectations. You and I may call a rifle a POS if it can't group .5 MOA off a bag, where as 90% of the population is happy to hit black in a 3 MOA group. Granted, even if the US Post Office is 99.9998% on the money, that means there still is a butt load of mail is screwed up because of the sheer volume. But, I have held a bunch of parts in my own hands from DPMS that were passed around to the class and we were going WTF? I mean shear surfaces that were left in the rough, hammers that weren't true squared, elongated holes in the lowers etc. Yes, if .5% is bad, then that can equate to a lot of bad parts. By comparison, there were also a significant amount of parts from Olympic and considering how many less rifles are sold by them, the percentage of sub standard product is exponentially higher that they produce. Thankfully, the AR platform allows the end user to correct most of these issues. these are the types of groups I regularly make with my DPMS 308 16in barrel.. holes in holes are not uncommon.. not disputing what you are saying at all.. but my version is pretty much as stock as stock gets.. for a 16in semi automatic rifle I am not sure what more I could expect.. not saying these are amazing groups or anything.. but I have put out quite a few 5 shot groups in which 3-4 were either overlapping or touching in some way... were the issues you experienced with the 308 or 223 guns.. because (while I don't know why) there appears to be a pretty big gap between the quality of those two guns.. I think that when my financial situation improves I may upgrade the trigger.. it is not horrible or anything.. but I know there are better options out there.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wojo 98 Posted February 24, 2011 The parts and discussions were solely based on the AR15 - 223 DPMS / Bushmaster platform. FWIW, I bought an Armalite AR10T - 24" HB that hated anything other then match or bench rest primers. Accurate as hell, but it was an ammo prima-dona, pissed me off for sure. I know it was a correctable issue with springs, but it still annoyed me. I also had an Eagle Arms 20" upper for it and took it white tail hunting. I had a nice 6 pointer dialed in at short range and dropped the hammer only to hear click and no bang. Dimpled the primer, but not enough. It was on Gun Broker within a week of getting home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted February 24, 2011 The parts and discussions were solely based on the AR15 - 223 DPMS / Bushmaster platform. that explains a ton... those guns from what I understand were originally terrible.. I am not sure of the quality of them now.. but there was a time where people had all the same experience you did.. and that was the gun being awful.. the 308 version on the other hand is generally pretty reliable.. keep in mind this is not a brand new gun.. and has not had a single FULL cleaning since I purchased it (maybe a year ago? and who knows if it was EVER fully cleaned).. I am assuming based on the insane amount of gunk/soot in the bolt and carrier that is at least part of the issue.. the gun is operating a thousand times smoother.. just need to put in some more range time to see if it actually works better.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted February 24, 2011 Understood Wojo And I have NO LOVE for DPMS AR15's . And the toyota/lexes point, LOL you seen my 1911 topic posts? Except I used BMW and Hyundai LOL. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites