Jump to content
Rgrdocstud

Firearm transport while on foot (without CCW permit)

Recommended Posts

Something I've wondered about lately- the narrow limitations on firearm transport in NJ include transport in vehicles, buses, trains, and airplanes. What about on foot? This could apply in all sorts of situations, from people who don't own cars to those who live close enough to a range/gun shop to justify walking instead of driving. If there's no provision for transporting firearms on foot, then we're all breaking the law just by parking near a shooting range and walking (even two steps) from the car to the front door.

 

I know this sounds anal, but random police encounters can happen when we least expect them. Common sense would dictate that if you happened to be questioned by police you could just say, "Officer, I just parked my car a few blocks down the road and I'm walking over to the shooting range. My gun is cased and locked here in my range bag."

 

I noticed that parking at Bullet Hole has been discussed in another thread, and the consensus was that everyone in the neighborhood knows the deal. But then ask Greg Revell or Brian Aitken if they still think common sense is enough to keep an honest NJ gun owner from getting locked up. Let's discuss the strict legal interpretation, since that seems to be what gets people arrested. As far as I can tell, the law doesn't have provisions for this, and the way NJ law is written, if it's not exempted then it's prohibited.

 

I'd love to hear some thoughts on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My opinion:

 

Walking from the shooting range parking lot to the facility = reasonable.

 

Walking out of your house to some nearby location while carrying your guns = not even worth contemplating.

 

But again, that's just my personal opinion and preference. I would rather spend my time and money buying guns, ammo and shooting than on a lawyer to test the limits of state law.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no problem with walking on foot. Just make sure you are under the exemptions.

 

And adhere to this rule:

 

All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup... In a backpack, unloaded, cased, with ammo separate while walking to the range seems like it would be perfectly legal. Doesn't mean you have no chance of getting arrested in an encounter with the police, but as we have all seen the same is true when transporting via car.

 

If anything, I think your risk is lower walking, unless of course you are carrying a long gun ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The part of the statute that Dan posted says nothing about transporting on foot. Nothing meaning, good to go, or not good to go. The ambiguity of our gun laws is the problem. There's no black and white. I'm kind of ambivalent with regard to this topic. My interpretation of the statute above is that yes, so long as I follow the packing (pun intended) of guns/ammo, I could travel by foot, bus, train or taxi to a range. That's the intellect speaking. My heart says, no way.

 

I hate the NJ gun laws as most of us do. Another thing most of us do is exactly what you're doing, researching and dissecting the law to make sure we're in compliance. We're some of the most law abiding people I know. Problem is that some law enforcement, including prosecutors and Judges may not be as well versed as we are. And, when I come across an item in the statute I'm not sure about, I err on the side of caution. I wouldn't be good in jail. My morning routine is a relaxing 2 hours long, filled with reading, coffee and the rest of what needs to be done to prepare for my day. I like my freedom way too much to take chances.

 

I drove my GF to the AC airport last week. Drove right past GSP exit 89 for Shore Shot which is 25-30 minutes south of me. Yes, I wanted to shoot at the range on the way back from the airport. Did I bring a gun with me? No. I stopped by on the way back and rented one. Happens all the time. My Mom lives not far from Shore Shot, and it would be illegal for me to stop by her house to/from the range to say hello. Could I do it and get away with it? Probably, but I won't until these laws change. The only thing I can do is support organizations that are fighting to change the laws, like NJ2AS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup... In a backpack, unloaded, cased, with ammo separate while walking to the range seems like it would be perfectly legal. Doesn't mean you have no chance of getting arrested in an encounter with the police, but as we have all seen the same is true when transporting via car.

 

If anything, I think your risk is lower walking, unless of course you are carrying a long gun ;)

 

 

PK90, I'm going to spare you the trouble this time.B)

 

There goes that "S" word again!:facepalm:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PK90, I'm going to spare you the trouble this time.B)

 

There goes that "S" word again!:facepalm:

 

beat me to it. i wish people would realize there is no law that states ammo has to be separate. it only states unloaded. you can have a loaded mag laying with the gun....as long as its not inserted.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wondered about this also, as I live a walking distance from my range. I figure if it's unloaded, cased and the case is locked, ammo in a separate bag _ I can walk or hop on my bike and go to the range. I might actually do this when it gets warmer... with the price of gas what it is... y'know...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PK90, I'm going to spare you the trouble this time.B)

 

There goes that "S" word again!:facepalm:

 

:icon_lol:

 

I was not going to comment. I am past that now.

 

:facepalm:

 

BTW, what do inner city people do when they go to a range? Firearms do not have to be transported by car, motorcycle, truck or golf cart.

 

All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

 

The law refers to an automobile because of the readily accessibility of the compartment. I guess. :wacko:

 

Lock the unloaded firearm in a case. Stick the case in a bag if you want to conceal it. Go to the range. Done.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting replies. I was going to wait before adding another two cents, but I can't help but throw some more wood on the fire.

 

Picture this: A man walks several blocks to a bus stop in a dense urban neighborhood, carrying a padlocked "G L O C K" case with logo prominently displayed. Under his arm is a completely see-through plastic bin topped off with about 200 rounds of .45 ACP hand loads for his range session. He boards the bus and takes his seat, holding the aforementioned items on his lap. Awkward stares ensue. A nearby passenger gets up and moves to the farthest part of the bus, slowly pulling out a cell phone...

 

A little sketchy, I know. :) But it's plausible. And if it is indeed perfectly legal, then who wants to try it first and report back?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. When I read the thread title, I thought the question was going to go the other way - 'Can you carry on foot from a good place to another place?'

 

I had no idea this was going to be about the legality of carrying from your car to a range, etc.

 

This sucks. Not the thread, just the idea of putting up with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

beat me to it. i wish people would realize there is no law that states ammo has to be separate. it only states unloaded. you can have a loaded mag laying with the gun....as long as its not inserted.

 

Thanks... I know I've read this on the forum somewhere but I guess it slipped my mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting replies. I was going to wait before adding another two cents, but I can't help but throw some more wood on the fire.

 

Picture this: A man walks several blocks to a bus stop in a dense urban neighborhood, carrying a padlocked "G L O C K" case with logo prominently displayed. Under his arm is a completely see-through plastic bin topped off with about 200 rounds of .45 ACP hand loads for his range session. He boards the bus and takes his seat, holding the aforementioned items on his lap. Awkward stares ensue. A nearby passenger gets up and moves to the farthest part of the bus, slowly pulling out a cell phone...

 

A little sketchy, I know. :) But it's plausible. And if it is indeed perfectly legal, then who wants to try it first and report back?

 

 

I think I have found a new way to make sure no one steals my lunch. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The part of the statute that Dan posted says nothing about transporting on foot. All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

 

 

All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

 

Carried implies walking or whatever. The "locked in the trunk" part is clearly an OR situation. It's a simple logic calculation (mathematical logic - not being sarcastic). If it said AND, then you could ONLY transport locked in a trunk...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would the police even know you were carrying a gun in the first place. You dont have to be searched if you are not doing anything. Just go to the range. Be discreet dont show any ammo or anything. Afterward go home and clean your gun.

My point is most legal questions can be avoided by obeying the law.

 

This is a great board! Love the questions. More of us should pose these questions to our elected class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Carried implies walking or whatever. The "locked in the trunk" part is clearly an OR situation. It's a simple logic calculation (mathematical logic - not being sarcastic). If it said AND, then you could ONLY transport locked in a trunk...

 

 

Thanks to everyone who replied. I really feel like this issue is much clearer now. Seems like I didn't pay enough attention to the "or" in the above wording. I would have to agree now that walking outside with your gun encased is perfectly legal as long as you're going to or from the range. It's perfectly reasonable too: At least from a distance, I don't think most non gun-owners would recognize a handgun case anyway, so it's unlikely to cause a scene. There would still be potential for getting harassed AND searched by the police, but all of that can easily be avoided, which leads me to my last point:

 

Let me just clarify that the idea of walking with an openly displayed handgun case is just hypothetical. It would be a really, really bad idea to be that obvious. I put my locked case in a bag, preferably one that's as docile-looking as possible. I've heard of people putting their long guns in golf bags, guitar cases, etc. which is simply awesome. I know 99% of you reading this already know that, but I just wanted to clear that up in case there are any noobs (and I mean that in a nice way) who might get the wrong idea.

 

Many thanks to everyone who replied and helped to clear this up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"PK90, I'm going to spare you the trouble this time.

 

There goes that "S" word again!"

 

Sorry, I guess I missed prior discussions on this and don't mean tor repoen the issue, but I was under the impression that it was fairly clear that in our beautiful state the magazine is considered part of the gun. Thus, if you are carrying an unloaded gun in a locked case, but have a loaded magazine with you (whether in the case or stored elsewhere) it as if you have a loaded gun as far as NJ is concerned. I thought there was precedent on this, but some seem to believe it is clear that carrying a loaded mag outside the gun is ok. Can someone direct me to a prior thread or elaborate? I would love to be wrong. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hhmm, interesting question. I always thought that at least with semiauto pistols, only the part of the gun with the grip is considered a firearm. You could buy a replacement slide, barrel, and everything else without an FID or handgun permit, but as soon as you start dealing with the grip portion, it's considered a gun. Yes, it's a VERY good idea to carry your magazines unloaded, but I think that's just a precaution. In addition to jumping through hoops to comply with the letter of the law, it behooves us to take additional precautions against unlawful arrests by officers who themselves don't know the law. You might not get convicted, but spending a night in the slammer with Bubba ain't no fun, 'neither.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, I've always wondered about this myself. It would be open for discrimination lawsuits if it were illegal to "walk" your guns to the gun shop or range. Some people don't have, can't afford, or cannot drive cars for whatever reasons. I live about a mile from the nearest gun shop and I myself would just carry everything in a discreet bookbag.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have thought about this a bunch, as I live less than a mile from Bob's in Glassboro. The parking lot is not very big and when it's full I have had to drive and subsequently park in the Taco Bell parking lot several times. I could use the exercise too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have thought about this a bunch, as I live less than a mile from Bob's in Glassboro. The parking lot is not very big and when it's full I have had to drive and subsequently park in the Taco Bell parking lot several times. I could use the exercise too.

I to have parked at taco bell many times and have asked before leaving after shooting or buying a new firearm and they said it wsa legal and gave me a plastic bac for the gun in its case and a bag for the ammo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I drove my GF to the AC airport last week. Drove right past GSP exit 89 for Shore Shot which is 25-30 minutes south of me. Yes, I wanted to shoot at the range on the way back from the airport. Did I bring a gun with me? No. I stopped by on the way back and rented one. Happens all the time. My Mom lives not far from Shore Shot, and it would be illegal for me to stop by her house to/from the range to say hello. Could I do it and get away with it? Probably, but I won't until these laws change. The only thing I can do is support organizations that are fighting to change the laws, like NJ2AS.

 

 

My Mom lives on my route from home to Shore Shot and I stop there to say hi on the way and consider this a reasonable deviation. The unloaded gun and ammo are locked in the range bag and I believe I'm compliant with the law. Hmmmmm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

when i got my first pistol i went the bullet hole range, and when i was taking my pistol out it was unloaded with a loaded mag in case and was told by the range officer i should not carry a loaded mag... so i stopped doing that...i was still new to the sport so i didnt know really...

 

beat me to it. i wish people would realize there is no law that states ammo has to be separate. it only states unloaded. you can have a loaded mag laying with the gun....as long as its not inserted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...