Legal or Not

[Zardoz 4]

Can someone help me out? I was wondering if using my wife's gun at the range is legal, without her being present. The paperwork is always with the gun, but something tells me that it doesn't matter.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

No, that would be an illegal transfer.

[tommy3rd 132]

Can someone help me out? I was wondering if using my wife's gun at the range is legal, without her being present. The paperwork is always with the gun, but something tells me that it doesn't matter.

is the gun pink or is her name engraved on it? would anyone ever really know? Now if you do something stupid with it or bring attention to yourself while you have it then there definitely will be trouble.

I don't know if you'll be breaking any laws by using it, but since this is New Jersey, just assume that you are and that you're guilty until proven innocent.

[Larain60 1]

In NJ thats a no go.

 

Remember integrity means doing the right thing when no one is looking. Not directed at OP.

[Zardoz 4]

I kind of figured that. I was thinking worse case scenario. If the gun accidentally dropped, discharged and hit someone, the ensuing investigation would show I didn't own the gun. Thanks for the replies.

[Genewarper111 18]

I kind of figured that. I was thinking worse case scenario. If the gun accidentally dropped, discharged and hit someone, the ensuing investigation would show I didn't own the gun. Thanks for the replies.

 

 

really - don't do it is my advice.. it's illegal, full stop, finish.

 

G

[Malsua 1,422]

Yup, illegal. No go.

 

Bring her to the range or leave it at the house.

[Zardoz 4]

Yeah, I'll leave it home from now on. My stepson really enjoys shooting it as it's a 22, but he'll have to get used to mine until he can buy his own.

[Malsua 1,422]

Is this a long gun?

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I guess I was wrong. We talked about this earlier and I thought that since it's his wife's gun that he could bring it to the range and shoot it. Zar, do you both have an FID? I'm thinking that since it's a married couple and both have FIDs this wouldn't be an issue.

[Zardoz 4]

Is this a long gun?

 

No. It's a S&W 22A pistol.

 

I guess I was wrong. We talked about this earlier and I thought that since it's his wife's gun that he could bring it to the range and shoot it. Zar, do you both have an FID? I'm thinking that since it's a married couple and both have FIDs this wouldn't be an issue.

 

 

Hey Ray, nice meeting you. Yes, we both have FID's.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

I know nothing yet about the laws in this state of ours but that sounds crazy!

 

If you AND your wife both have FID's but SHE is the owner of the pistol I see no reason (other than this is NJ) that you can't bring the gun to the range to shoot.

 

If this is true then I'd like to know why. I am waiting for my FID and planned on taking my wife to the range with me to shoot. Since I will be there I guess there will be no problems. Unless she also gets an FID she can't take anything for a ride anyway. I want her to do it so we won't be limited to a single handgun per 30 days with two of us being legal. What is dumb though that according to what I have read in this thread I won't be allowed to take any of her pistols to the range without her being present.

[Babaganoosh 192]

Isn't everything bought in marriage considered communal property? Technically you have 50% ownership in it! Plus if you ever get divorced it's half yours.

[Jon 264]

Unfortunately NJ laws make it illegal to take a gun that is not owned by you to the range without it's owner present. In fact, according to the letter of the law in NJ, it is illegal to shoot an intruder with your spouse's gun(though I would be shocked to see a DA try that case).

[Malsua 1,422]

I know nothing yet about the laws in this state of ours but that sounds crazy!

 

It is crazy

 

If you AND your wife both have FID's but SHE is the owner of the pistol I see no reason (other than this is NJ) that you can't bring the gun to the range to shoot.

 

Having a firearms PURCHASER ID has absolutely no bearing on handguns other than ammunition. It is a PURCHASE ID for long guns and confers some legality to long gun carry, but that's another topic. It is not an OWNER ID.

 

If this is true then I'd like to know why. I am waiting for my FID and planned on taking my wife to the range with me to shoot. Since I will be there I guess there will be no problems. Unless she also gets an FID she can't take anything for a ride anyway. I want her to do it so we won't be limited to a single handgun per 30 days with two of us being legal. What is dumb though that according to what I have read in this thread I won't be allowed to take any of her pistols to the range without her being present.

 

I'd like to dispel a myth for you here. Having a PURCHASER ID does not allow you to have a handgun anywhere in the state of NJ. When you put a handgun in your car to take it to the range, every step of the way, it's falling under an exemption to the law that disallows you to have a handgun in NJ. If you veer from the narrow corridor allowed by law(stop for lunch for example), you are breaking the law and committing a felony. You could have your Firearms PURCHASER ID card, your pistol permits or a note from your mother, they all have equal validity in conferring legal status to your guns. I.E. None.

 

The next issue is that of transferring firearms. The law maps out all the ways in which firearms may be transferred from one person to another. Your marital status or biological relationship doesn't matter. In the eyes of the law, handing a firearm from a legal owner to a different person is a temporary transfer. Taking your wife's gun to the range is a temporary transfer. The law is pretty clear on where and how you can do transfers and other than hunting, a temporary transfer must be under the supervision of the gun's owner. These transfers can only happen at training facilities and ranges. There is no exemption inside the home, meaning you hand it to your wife, that's technically illegal except that it falls under an ownership exemption. That particular one is a gray area.

 

Now as for long guns, your wife could permanently sell them to you before you go to the range. Fill out a certificate of eligibility, you each keep a copy and the guns are now yours. No temporary transfer has taken place and they are completely legal. When you get back from the range, maybe you decided you didn't like them, you could sell them back to her. If you do this too much you've become a gun dealer and could be jailed and arrested...as absurd as that sounds, but who would ever know if the paperwork got lost .

 

One other thing I'll touch on...a Firearms PURCHASER ID is a long gun carry card. The carry portion of the card has been obscured recently(older FPID list is as a purchase and carry ID), so having a FPID does confer a legal status to long arms outside of your home. You could stop for lunch with a long gun in the vehicle, legally. It does not permit you to walk down the street with a loaded long gun unless you are hunting. The moment you have a handgun in your car all that goes out the window.

[Zardoz 4]

I'd like to dispel a myth for you here. Having a PURCHASER ID does not allow you to have a handgun anywhere in the state of NJ. When you put a handgun in your car to take it to the range, every step of the way, it's falling under an exemption to the law that disallows you to have a handgun in NJ. If you veer from the narrow corridor allowed by law(stop for lunch for example), you are breaking the law and committing a felony. You could have your Firearms PURCHASER ID card, your pistol permits or a note from your mother, they all have equal validity in conferring legal status to your guns. I.E. None.

 

The next issue is that of transferring firearms. The law maps out all the ways in which firearms may be transferred from one person to another. Your marital status or biological relationship doesn't matter. In the eyes of the law, handing a firearm from a legal owner to a different person is a temporary transfer. Taking your wife's gun to the range is a temporary transfer. The law is pretty clear on where and how you can do transfers and other than hunting, a temporary transfer must be under the supervision of the gun's owner. These transfers can only happen at training facilities and ranges. There is no exemption inside the home, meaning you hand it to your wife, that's technically illegal except that it falls under an ownership exemption. That particular one is a gray area.

 

Now as for long guns, your wife could permanently sell them to you before you go to the range. Fill out a certificate of eligibility, you each keep a copy and the guns are now yours. No temporary transfer has taken place and they are completely legal. When you get back from the range, maybe you decided you didn't like them, you could sell them back to her. If you do this too much you've become a gun dealer and could be jailed and arrested...as absurd as that sounds, but who would ever know if the paperwork got lost .

 

One other thing I'll touch on...a Firearms PURCHASER ID is a long gun carry card. The carry portion of the card has been obscured recently(older FPID list is as a purchase and carry ID), so having a FPID does confer a legal status to long arms outside of your home. You could stop for lunch with a long gun in the vehicle, legally. It does not permit you to walk down the street with a loaded long gun unless you are hunting. The moment you have a handgun in your car all that goes out the window.

 

Well said, Malsua and understood. What bothers me is the ranges can rent you a gun with basically no knowledge of who you are, but you can't use another family members gun at the same range even though you've been injected, inspected, detected, infected, neglected and selected (to quote Arlo Guthrie) by the state and local police. In both cases the range is overseeing your conduct, so this doesn't make sense. What's really sad is our lawmakers have put these laws in place to stop the criminal element from gaining access to and using guns. WOW, what a success that's been ( ). Where is the common sense? What am I missing here? These laws need to be changed. Frank, another donation is coming.

[djg0770 481]

Unfortunately NJ laws make it illegal to take a gun that is not owned by you to the range without it's owner present. In fact, according to the letter of the law in NJ, it is illegal to shoot an intruder with your spouse's gun(though I would be shocked to see a DA try that case).

 

J0n - you've got a terminology issue here as gun registration is voluntary in NJ. Perhaps the correct phrase is "not directly owned by you as specified within the context of 2C:39 et al..."

 

I know - it's picking nits, but this is NJ where we have a whole host of individuals who are employed to only pick nits.

[Jon 264]

J0n - you've got a terminology issue here as gun registration is voluntary in NJ. Perhaps the correct phrase is "not directly owned by you as specified within the context of 2C:39 et al..."

 

I know - it's picking nits, but this is NJ where we have a whole host of individuals who are employed to only pick nits.

 

True. Editing...

[M4BGRINGO 139]

So.............When I go to the shooting range and use firearms that don't belong to me (and I don't own any yet since I have no FID) we could technically be in trouble? But I can rent firearms from the shooting range and use them and I don't have an FID?

 

This state is such a pain in the a** in so many ways!

 

I thank you for the information. I am really curious as to what my buddies in the local PD know about the gun laws in this state. Gotta ask them and see what they have to say. If the local laws in Brick are different than mine here then it really won't matter.

[kenw 293]

A temporary transfer is not illegal at a state certified range. Even if you don't have an FID card, you can shoot any gun that someoerne at the range hands you to shoot without any problems. You can also legally transfer temporarily at a gun shop or gunsmith. Anywhere else is considered an illegal transfer, even if it's completely legal for you and the person you're handing the gun to have and possess firearms.

[Malsua 1,422]

 

 

I thank you for the information. I am really curious as to what my buddies in the local PD know about the gun laws in this state. Gotta ask them and see what they have to say. If the local laws in Brick are different than mine here then it really won't matter.

 

This is not to disparage any law enforcement officer, most however simply are not trained nor have they read and parsed the 2c statutes regarding firearms. You will most likely find a different answer from each one you talk to, including those in the state police firearms unit. The laws regarding possession and transfer of firearms are STATE laws, Brick or other local areas don't have any authority over those issues.

[Jon 264]

This is not to disparage any law enforcement officer, most however simply are not trained nor have they read and parsed the 2c statutes regarding firearms. You will most likely find a different answer from each one you talk to, including those in the state police firearms unit. The laws regarding possession and transfer of firearms are STATE laws, Brick or other local areas don't have any authority over those issues.

 

Agreed 100%. It says something when over half the cops at my Dept come to me with firearm questions.

[ianargent 7]

Temporary transfers arre legal at a range as long as the owner of the firearm is on hand (maybe in the same room - I don't recall of the top of my head). There are some other conditions under which temporary transfers are legal, off the top of my head I don't recall them.

 

Technically, it's illegal for me to touch my wife's handgun off the range, even if she's in the same room. I remember running across a quote from Evan Nappen about a guy who was nailed for illegal transfer for allowing someone else to handle a firearm at home (want to say the victim of the law was a judge - but I can't dig up the anecdote right now).

[mipafox 438]

In NJ thats a no go.

 

Remember integrity means doing the right thing when no one is looking. Not directed at OP.

 

I think you actually meant the "legal thing."

 

The right thing would be to load the wife's gun, stick it in a Serpa on your hip, and drive to the range.

 

Unfortunately, that is highly illegal in NJ. But I certainly don't see any problems with integrity in that scenario.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I would like some one to touch on what someone said previously in this thread. If your married, by law you share ownership of everything within the partnership. Not sure how ownership and possession relates to this situation which is what im eager to find out.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Agreed 100%. It says something when over half the cops at my Dept come to me with firearm questions.

Well, i'll give them credit for finding an informed source, at least they try and do the right thing unlike some.

[halbautomatisch 60]

I want her to do it so we won't be limited to a single handgun per 30 days with two of us being legal.

If you are looking to buy several handguns go for an exemption, it's a bit of a pain, but it beats waiting months and months to get your pistols. The SP has been granting them without much trouble so far.

[PK90 3,570]

My cut off that I suggest is 3 or more. 2 is not enough to wait the additional week or two.

[ianargent 7]

I would like some one to touch on what someone said previously in this thread. If your married, by law you share ownership of everything within the partnership. Not sure how ownership and possession relates to this situation which is what im eager to find out.

NJ is not a community-property state; the emphasized above is likely incorrect. (I looked that up when I was investigating firearms purchasing). NJ law does not contemplate ownership of a firearm by more than one individual (though the law claims that a firearm in a car is possessed by all in the car unless on the person of someone, in which case it is presumed to be possessed by that person - so don't give a ride to your friend the prohibited person while you have a gun in the car...)

[hd2000fxdl 422]

(though the law claims that a firearm in a car is possessed by all in the car unless on the person of someone, in which case it is presumed to be possessed by that person - so don't give a ride to your friend the prohibited person while you have a gun in the car...)

 

Do you have a link or law that says that?

 

Playing the devils advocate, what if you didn't know someone was a restricted person, what if they were medicated with a mental issue, with the way things are today and people pop pills for every little thing that they think is a mental disorder. What if you had someone you know and they want to go shooting with you and you didn't know about that.

 

How would you know unless it was common knowledge that the person was a prohibited person, now yes we would know who is who for major things, but do you know everything about all your friends or acquaintances who you may invite to go shooting??

 

Especially places like SS who rents to people without a FID card.

 

Harry