"Welcome to the Dark Side"

[Shane45 807]

"Come on, what's 4mm between friends?" Reliabaility! The 7.62X35 feeds reliably in AR mags where the 7.62X39 only feeds in dismal 10 rounders

[Dan 177]

different round = different tool

right tool for the right job

 

the AR crowd will sit all day and say exactly what you just said "the AR can shoot further more accurately.." and while that is likely true I consider both of these rounds as just mid range rifles.. meaning if you want to shoot a man large animal sized target at mid range then these are ideal.. for me (and my eyes) mid range stops at 150-200... so when I judge the rounds and compare them (7.62x39 VS 223) I judge them based on performance in that 200 yard range.. if I am personally going to shoot at a large target past 200 and intend to neutralize it.. I would not be taking that shot with either of those guns (AR 15 OR AK).. yes I can probably hit something past 200 with my Saiga.. yes you can likely hit something past 200 with your AR... I can hit steel at 200 with my Glock... does not make it the best choice... for me (and my eyes) 200+ yard shots are taken with a scoped 308 gun.. I respect the AR in that it can make long accurate shots.. but that round to me just seems underpowered when compared inside the 200..

 

I have higher aspirations for what I consider a general purpose rifle as well as what defines mid-range distances. For instance, Appleseed Project strives to train people for zombie-sized targets out to 500 yards with iron sights. My link. I'm planning on attending one of these sessions this year. I'm building up my trusty 10/22 with the proper sights, sling, etc for it.

 

Did you say "basic" class? Yes, we did. But our definition of "basic" supersedes others' definition of the same word. If you persist in practice, you will be able to make head shots at 250 yards, and body hits at 500 yards — a basic feat for our forefathers. And you'll be able to do it using iron sights and a rack-grade rifle!

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

I have higher aspirations for what I consider a general purpose rifle as well as what defines mid-range distances. For instance, Appleseed Project strives to train people for zombie-sized targets out to 500 yards with iron sights. My link. I'm planning on attending one of these sessions this year. I'm building up my trusty 10/22 with the proper sights, sling, etc for it.

 

 

but you cant shoot 500 yards with PISTOL SIGHTS!!1!!1!1!!one!!!1!!!

[Shane45 807]

"For up to 200ish meters, I feel 7.62 is superior."

In what venue?

 

 

"By the way, all these fancy rounds they come out with trying to make it effective....is proof that the round by design lacks. You dont see them doing this with 308"

I view this statement as incorrect.

 

ANyone wanna guess without looking what a box of Corbon HD 7.62X39 goes for?

[Dan 177]

but you cant shoot 500 yards with PISTOL SIGHTS!!1!!1!1!!one!!!1!!!

 

Not sure what you mean here.

If you are implying the sights on the 10/22 rifle, I'm getting Tech-Sights for it, adjustable. And the project uses simulated ranges by varying the paper target sizes.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

Not sure what you mean here.

If you are implying the sights on the 10/22 rifle, I'm getting Tech-Sights for it, adjustable. And the project uses simulated ranges by varying the paper target sizes.

 

 

No, its not a jab at you. Its from when ray ray said shooting with a mosin at 500 yards with its stock "pistol sights" is impossible

[Dan 177]

"For up to 200ish meters, I feel 7.62 is superior."

In what venue?

 

Just my gut feeling on a nice heavy round still with good velocity/reasonable drop at that range. Kind of the .45ACP versus 9mm argument. I'm sure there's much more to it, but thats just IMO.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Not sure what you mean here.

If you are implying the sights on the 10/22 rifle, I'm getting Tech-Sights for it, adjustable. And the project uses simulated ranges by varying the paper target sizes.

 

 

he is making fun of someone completely different..

[Dan 177]

No, its not a jab at you. Its from when ray ray said shooting with a mosin at 500 yards with its stock "pistol sights" is impossible

 

Hah, OK I missed that one.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Just my gut feeling on a nice heavy round still with good velocity/reasonable drop at that range. Kind of the .45ACP versus 9mm argument. I'm sure there's much more to it, but thats just IMO.

 

for what it is worth..

I shoot 7.62x39 out of a 16in barrel at 150 pretty often and I do not notice a significant amount of drop..

[McMaster 7]

My Mom always said I was a trouble maker.

[Dan 177]

for what it is worth..

I shoot 7.62x39 out of a 16in barrel at 150 pretty often and I do not notice a significant amount of drop..

 

At 150 meters (164 yards), 7.62x39 drop is only a little over 2", no problem. At 200 meters (218 yards) we're at 6.5", still not a big problem. This is partly responsible for my thinking that its a great round for 200 meter and under. After 225ish, starts being measured in feet.

 

 

 

 

[Shane45 807]

In general terms there is merit for the statement that a bigger circle makes a bigger hole and is thus more effective. However, in the world of performance ammunition it its a different story. Its the reason why some 9mm rounds can significantly outperform some 45 rounds. As I have said before, there are some 5.56 loadings that look like a small explosive device went off in soft tissue! So even though my heart belongs to 45 and 308, I would not feel undergunned with a 5.56 and a 9mm with the right ammo.

[Shane45 807]

200 is fairly short engagement distance if you ask me. Hell even a wallmart has got to be 300 yds down an isle.

[vladtepes 1,060]

At 150 meters (164 yards), 7.62x39 drop is only a little over 2", no problem. At 200 meters (218 yards) we're at 6.5", still not a big problem. This is partly responsible for my thinking that its a great round for 200 meter and under. After 225ish, starts being measured in feet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

does that mean that with 7.62x39 a 50 yard 0 will be 0 again at 100 yards?

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

well, thats in meters but yes. You can confirm that with the hornady ballistic calculator, put in for a 50 yard zero and see what it says for 100 yard adjustment, if its 0.0 its true.

[Dan 177]

Indeed, there are various battlesight zero models you can choose depending on the round and rifle. This link has a great explanation, on how the bullet rises before dropping, and using this to your advantage.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrOBGHBLPos

 

Come on, these guns BOTH rock. Let's be serious here, do you honestly think one is better than the other? No, they will do what they are asked to do.

[almiz111 26]

I have higher aspirations for what I consider a general purpose rifle as well as what defines mid-range distances. For instance, Appleseed Project strives to train people for zombie-sized targets out to 500 yards with iron sights. My link. I'm planning on attending one of these sessions this year. I'm building up my trusty 10/22 with the proper sights, sling, etc for it.

 

***********************************

Dan, You may/may not know or care. You can shoot a Saiga AK variant or AR or other at Appleseed but the ammo cost will be painfull. It's mostly all at 25 yards - rarely longer. You can use a scope. No bipods.

 

Reply for more useless info. LOL.

[vladtepes 1,060]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrOBGHBLPos

 

Come on, these guns BOTH rock. Let's be serious here, do you honestly think one is better than the other? No, they will do what they are asked to do.

 

 

eh.. I shoot an AR and AK platform gun and have owned several varieties.. my AK guns have always worked no matter how dirty they got.. and that was shooting dirty Russian steel cased ammo.. my AR on the other hand died failed and had to be cleaned.. ironically that is only fed premium ammo.. so in my personal experience there is definitely a difference in terms of reliability..

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Yeah, and my pops owned junk AKs and SKSs that almost killed both of us. But that's just a small sample so I don't generalize that with everyhing.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Yeah, and my pops owned junk AKs and SKSs that almost killed both of us. But that's just a small sample so I don't generalize that with everyhing.

 

 

not generalizations.. all guns compared were modern new or near new guns at the start.. the AR that I am referring to was making holes on holes.. these are all good shooting guns.. just saying that throwing them into my horrible maintenance rotation only netted one failure out of quite a few guns.. and it was an AR.. and the failure? not a broken part.. or bad ammo.. the failure was from nothing more than dirt... the bolt and bolt carrier were so filthy that the rifle just could not fully cycle.. I know you are not supposed to treat weapons like that.. but I just like to know the breaking points..

[Shane45 807]

Ray Ray with a solid piece of logic!

[Shane45 807]

BTW, the weapon in heat id take was the FN

[Ray Ray 3,566]

BTW, the weapon in heat id take was the FN

 

Is that what it was? I always wanted to know what Al Pachino's character was using.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Is that what it was? I always wanted to know what Al Pachino's character was using.

 

FN FNC-80 5.56

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Heat

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Wow, I didn't know there where that many different guns in the movie! Thanks Nick.

[Shane45 807]

Ive had extensive hands on with that rifle. Its a great rifle IMO.

[fliks 20]

I thought this thread was about our emotional feelings towards AKs and stuff like that... and guys are whippin' out charts and graphs and crunchin' numbers talkin' about ballistics.... <insert Russian accent here> I just always wanted real AK since I was little boy in Ukraine - I had toy AK - looked like real thing - detachable magazine, made noise and little lamp light up in muzzle when squeeze trigger... now I am big boy and want real AK that shoots real boolits.

[vjf915 456]

I thought this thread was about our emotional feelings towards AKs and stuff like that... and guys are whippin' out charts and graphs and crunchin' numbers talkin' about ballistics....

It's also turned into an AK vs. AR fight.