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Obama Starting Gun Control Talks with or without NRA

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i believe that changes must be maid. Pro Vs. Anti gun its getting ridiculous. And i truely believe in my hart that our 2nd amendemnt rights will never be taken away. just controled to the point where it becomes impossible to do anything. which im not sayin thats what should happen. But if they can come up with a plan that will make people safer from nut bags and the same plan allows us to be left alone by anti gun supporters wouldnt that be the ultimate? wouldnt that be what everyone wants? something both sides agree to? m i crazy here? because how it is now is not working. This is america. anythings possible right?

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gun ownership is a right. yes but in a way it is also kind of like driving. people who follow rules and regulations on the road are allowed to have a license.

 

 

no.. I must disagree.. it is nothing like driving.. I am not guaranteed the "right to drive" but I am in fact guaranteed the "right to keep and bear arms" and further it is specifically indicated that those rights "shall not be infringed", and that is the issue with all this..

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and u are also guarenteed the right to keep and bear arms arent you? someone telling you that you cannot? no one has told me im not guarenteed that right. and infringed the right is part of life and we have to deal with people giving us S*** about it.

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Jersey Dave, Have you actually studied gun control and compared the stats of less strict vs more strict states? If you have I know for a fact you would have a different conclusion as most have and are after the true facts have. The only ones who do not admit (because they see it) the truth are the ones with an anti agenda.

 

Now given your viewpoint which is clearly contradictory to the freedom the Second Amendment grants, and your numerous spelling errors I am left to the conclusion you are either an Anti Troll looking to stir up some controversy and give your anti side something to point at and say how angry gun owners are or you are just a troublemaker.

 

Either way your views have been seen and handily rejected given the Negative rating you have aquired so quickly. I would emplore you to keep engaged in the debate and even do some real fact checking. I would be happy to help you if you so desired.

 

And as a reminder to all we need this to remain a civil debate.

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I agree. it is a social problem. but we cant go by what he wish or want. we have to go by what it is. its against the law. puts people in the wrong state of mind. its a problem and must be adressed. i dont want any firearms ban on any state. gun ownership is a right. yes but in a way it is also kind of like driving. people who follow rules and regulations on the road are allowed to have a license. if your smoking pot or drinking a beer while driving your putting yourself and others in danger. if your high on drugs or drunk and u have a shotgun you are a danger to other. the drugs and alcohol is a huge problem. thats y jared loughner was nuts. he ate one to many mushrooms smoked one to may blunts. and was charged with parphanalia.

 

Ok, there pretty much isn't any way I would see eye to eye with you on your whole 'the sky is falling' take on the current state of affair, or legislation regarding firearms in general, so I'm going to take a different route here.

 

It would seem to be your opinion that federal legislation needs to be changed regarding gun control and you seem to support such efforts based off the assumption that the goverment will be able to succesffuly generate new laws that will keep guns out of the hands of criminals and therefore reduce violent crime, but will be crafted in a way that will not be unfair or prohibitive towards citizens who wish to own guns legally.

 

Now, I have a few questions for you:

 

1. In general, are you usually impressed or aggrivated with the federal goverment's legislative decisions?

2. Describe something you believe the government does really well?

3. Off the top of your head, when do you last recall an instance when the goverment implemented a policy you would describe as efficient and effective?

4. If you actually follow politics at all, I already know what your answers were for 1-3, so the only question that remains is: What is your basis for assuming they will suddenly get it right when dealing with firearms regulations?

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Yes your crazy. And heres why. No amount of law is going to matter to a criminal. He is free from the constraints that a law abiding citizen has to endure. A criminal is NOT going to be deterred from his activities because of a law. Someone determined to commit a crime will not be assuaged by the law. I could give you a million cases proving this out. Furthermore you give FAR to much credit to the anti side of the table. Ther IS NO middle ground. They simply want all guns outlawed. They will incrimentally chip away at our rights until that goal is met. What makes matters worse is that their position is based largely in emotion and therfore facts have no impact on their position so again, there is no middle ground. You cant rationalise with an irrational position.

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jerseydave, tbtrout makes an observation that is interesting to me. Based on your statement which is basically more guns = more crime, that would seem to indicate an unusual perspective given the type of forum this is. In fact it may be revealing as tbtrout pointed out. It is a common anti gun rhetoric but the FACT is that its simply not true. FBI statistics offers a very valid indication that more guns = less crime. This is something that has been researched and proven ad nauseum. But you presented an opposite view, one commonly found amongst the anti gun agenda. Again, its the anti crowd that is plagued with a dont bother me with facts, let me believe what I want o believe because it supports my emotion based position. And so antis live by the edict of repeat a lie enough times it will become percieved as true.

 

If you are in fact an antigun person, I truly would love to engage in respectfull intelligent conversation with you on the topic.

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wow look what i found online.... The study also seeks to draw a link between gun trafficking and gun control laws by analyzing gun restrictions in all 50 states in areas like background checks for gun purchases, policies on concealed weapons permits and state inspections of gun dealers. It finds that, across the board, those states with less restrictive gun laws exported guns used in crimes at significantly higher rates than states with more stringent laws. An advance copy of the study was provided to The New York Times.

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/27/us/politics/27guns.html read that guys.

 

This atricle is from 2010. i rest my case.

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wow look what i found online.... The study also seeks to draw a link between gun trafficking and gun control laws by analyzing gun restrictions in all 50 states in areas like background checks for gun purchases, policies on concealed weapons permits and state inspections of gun dealers. It finds that, across the board, those states with less restrictive gun laws exported guns used in crimes at significantly higher rates than states with more stringent laws. An advance copy of the study was provided to The New York Times.

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/27/us/politics/27guns.html read that guys.

 

This atricle is from 2010. i rest my case.

 

Ok, the problems with that are right there in the article via the statement from Chris Cox, but you don't actually care. You're a standard-issue gun grab groupie, which kind of blows me away. Setting up an account to troll isn't anything new, but you even went through the effort of putting up some very generic but passable posts about buying your first handgun/etc. All of which was just an attempt to have a smidge of credibility when the time came to start burdening the board with your poorly articulated, run-of-the mill gun control agenda we've all heard and thoroughly discredited countless times before.

 

EDIT: Apparently this is not the case, although I remain skeptical.

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Your evidence is scourced from an anti gun organisation? How about you do some research from credible scources like the FBI....

 

JD if your going to take a smug position and talk in absolutes with comments like "i rest my case" then there is no dialogue here. I have nothing further to discuss with you. You can continue to live in fantasy land or you can engage in intelligent conversation and perhaps learn something. The direction your comments are heading are giving me great concern that the conversation will not be intelligent...

 

One more comment, the activities outlined in the article are already illegal, so what would passing another law do to dissuade the criminal again?

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Setting up an account to troll isn't anything new, but you even went through the effort of putting up some very generic but passable posts about buying your first handgun/etc. All of which was just an attempt to have a smidge of credibility when the time came to start burdening the board with your poorly articulated, run-of-the mill gun control agenda we've all heard and thoroughly discredited countless times before.

 

+1

 

Typical Bradybot. :sarcastichand:

 

He talks about not giving up his guns, well he posted back in January about applying for his NJ FID......and since this is NJ, no way did he get his FID by now, thus he has no guns to give up. I even doubt this guy is 21.....

 

And quoting Joyce Foundation funded gun grabber studies?

 

I wouldn't doubt it if he was Bryan Miller himself.

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Sir. i posted about getting my pistol permits. i already have fid. safe in my room full of guns. thank you. but anyway.. my opinions seem to have gotton everyone one here pretty salty about the whole thing. i do apologize if i offended or ruined anyones day. i clearly stated my point and opinion. states where its easier to purchase have higher gun crimes. tried looking on fbi couldnt find anything. if someone could send me an fbi link that will show me gun crime state by state then i will agree to the fact that i am wrong. according to what i have read i am correct. some one show me something? i respect everyones opinion on here and do take them into consideration. at the bottom of the article.. cox even said the problem is the criminals. he basically stated that the criminals are causing problems for us gun owners. which ive stated the entire time. both sides have legit arguments, like ive already stated. so lets stop arguing and come up with an answer.. thats all im saying. like me or not i do not care. yes i am 21 so pretty much everyones opinion about me does not matter, and mine should not matter so strongly twords you guys.

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My intention is not to stir up trouble. I apologize if you guys think i made a false name of here and false posts so i can piss you guys off. Not true at all. not my intention at all. i apologize to the entire forum for speaking how i feel. truely.

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i clearly stated my point and opinion. states where its easier to purchase have higher gun crimes.

 

 

but the problem is that is a made up fact... NJ is got to be the second or third hardest place in the country to buy a gun.. but yet it is only in the middle as far as gun violence statistics go.. so it appears that the difficulty in obtaining a gun has next to nothing to do with the amount of violence committed with a gun...

 

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_gun-crime-gun-violence

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

 

Vermont which has literally no gun laws is the safest..

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_%28by_state%29#Vermont

 

debate and argue all you want... but at least observe fact..

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Im taking it into consideration. i checked the sites vlad sent me... i see some states in the top 10 where it is easy but also see some in top 10 that are not easy. so i guess in the end that means i have to stand corrected. i guess when it comes down to it it would have to be which state has more violent criminals haha.

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yes i see it. but is it triple the homocide rate due to guns? all i see is violent crime. i see nothing about gun crime

 

 

The notion that "gun crime" needs to be seperated out from violent crime is arbitrary. People being robbed/killed/raped by knife instead of by gunpoint is not an improvement. A rule that diminishes everyone's freedoms only to redistribute the means of crime without acutally reducing the amount of violent crime experienced by the public is useless at best, and actually makes things worse in most cases as the public is left LESS able to protect themselves against the perpetual crime rate in their area.

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Look guys at the end of the day i believe that our goals are the same. we want to keep our guns and right and be left alone about it. but at the same time we also want a safer america to live in right? for everyone.

Safe for who? Criminals

 

Before we all start breaking our monitors, I am closing this thread. Nothing else can be said that has not already. At least not politely.

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