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jcerillo70

Best Rem. 700 Caliber??? New to long range rifles

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It looks like this is what they offer on the vtr. I don't know much about these rifles, beside my navy buddy who's expert pistol & rifle lives by this. Maybe there's a better model and caliber?

 

 

 

Model 700™ VTR™

Compare

Full SpecsCaliberAverage Weight (lbs.)Barrel Length (in.)Overall Length (in.)TwistStatusNoteOrder # 223 Remington 7.522"41 5/8"9"New

84362 308 Win 7.522"41 5/8"12"New

84364 17 Remington Fireball 7.522"41 5/8"9"Discontinued

84367 243 Win 7.522"41 5/8"9 1/8"New

84368 204 Ruger 7.522"41 5/8"12"Current

84369 223 Remington 7.522"41 5/8"9"Current

84370 308 Win 7.522"41 5/8"12"Current

84371 22-250 Remington 7.522"41 5/8"14"Current

84373

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What are you looking to do with the rifle?

 

I have put some serious thinking into this and have almost decided i will be joining the Army with the rest of my buddies. I want something to practice with for tactical situations.

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Joe, your so off base in that line of thinking I dont even know where to start. Nothing your going to do with that bolt rifle at the range as an amature is going to prepare you for anything you would do in the Army except for basic marksmanship which you can achieve with a .22.

 

So the relevance of the question still stands, what do you want to do? The calibers represented cover a wide assortment of different types of shooting from varmint hunting to medium game. If your interest is in cutting your teeth in precision rifle, the 308 is the staple of that endeavor.

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Joe, your so off base in that line of thinking I dont even know where to start. Nothing your going to do with that bolt rifle at the range as an amature is going to prepare you for anything you would do in the Army except for basic marksmanship which you can achieve with a .22.

 

I do already have a 10/22. Should i just set that up with some good optics and work with that?

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If your interest is in cutting your teeth in precision rifle, the 308 is the staple of that endeavor.

I was going to suggest this. However, if he was going to punch paper at 200 yards, and had NO other plans for it....I was going to suggest .223 as the accuracy within that range is just about the same, and ammo can be cheaper.

 

I do already have a 10/22. Should i just set that up with some good optics and work with that?

If you just want to practice shooting, then yes your 10/22 should suit you very well.

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If anything, you're just as well off NOT practicing with a precision rifle if you plan to join the military. You will probably develop some bad habits, and have to re-learn how to shoot in the service. They'll teach you how to shoot better than the internet can.

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Tactical Sniper shooting?

For tactical sniper get yourself a good scope and work on your fundamentals, a 10/22 is great to practice on. Get yourself to were you can put the rounds through the same hole. You should also try to get a Bi-pod for your 22 and get used to shooting with one. If you have an I Phone or I Pod touch get the Army sniper training manual, its 1.99 I think or try to find it online.

I have a 308 Remington 700 on a tactical stock with a Tasco 10-40x scope, if you want to try it out send me a pm.

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i will be joining the Army with the rest of my buddies. I want something to practice with for tactical situations.

 

I went into the Army in 1967, stayed in one form or another (Active, Guard, and Reserve) until I retired in 2010.

 

What is it you want to do in the Army that you feel you need long range rifle practice for?

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What is it you want to do in the Army that you feel you need long range rifle practice for?

I was wondering the same thing.

 

Joe, unless you have a guaranteed IN for long range shooting like this, it may be unnecessary practice.

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They'll teach you how to shoot better than the internet can.

 

As Mr P said you will probably develop bad habits that will only have to be fixed if you teach yourself. I know as I went through that with handguns. I was good but damn was I so much better after professional instruction.

 

The Army has taught millions of men and women to shoot a rifle. They have their methods down pretty much after all these years. Pay attention, do what they tell you and you will have no problem engaging long range targets. You want to be a sniper? Go infantry and apply for the school. You have to be in a unit for some time before you apply. Also only about 20% of sniper school is shooting, 80% is fieldcraft (camo, movement, etc). There is no way you can self teach yourself long range shooting 10% as good as the Army can.

 

If you want to spend time doing something to prepare you for the Army I'd say work on your weight (if overweight) and physical fitness. These are the two areas mosr people fail in. Start running if you don't do so already (I'm not talking short sprints either), push ups and situps (yes they changed the PT test but these things will help), and moreso upper body strength if you want to go to jump school.

 

If you're serious about going in the Army work on your physical fitness not your shooting skills.

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A couple of my buddies are going infantry and the other ones going towards MP. My plan is go for MP then after become a law enforcement officer. I watched ranger training yesterday, that was serious.

 

I was always intrigued by the sniper's, thats why I wanted to get a leg up beforehand in hopes of going that route

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I agree with 99% of Griz's statements. The only sticking point is learning long range precision shooting outside the Army. It can and is done every day. In fact you can get BETTER training than the Army has to offer in civillian channels. However, this is an endeavor measured in years and a SIGNIFICANT financial commitment. Most everyone I know that is seriously commited to long range precision shooting easily has well over 10k wrapped up in it. Thats not to say it cant be done on a budget, but usually it is not. If I had to make a guess on a reasonable budget, it would start @ 7k. It would look something like this:

 

Used FN SPR A3G 2000

Used Nighforce F1 2000

Used Kowa Spotting Scope 800

Accessories 500

1 Solid train up 1500

Ammo 1000

----------

7800

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That’s just the basics shane.

$1000 for ammo is just a start, Do you buy match loads or do you reload. How much time do you have to do that? How much time do you have to go shoot and test those loads? ( lots of $$ either way)

Anyone could go out a buy crap and pay a little money to shoot 200-300 or even 1000 yards. But lets face it, we don’t just want to be able to hit a target at those distances, we want to be able to hit them every time, anytime.

data book $40-$70 (impactdatabooks.com)

kestrel weather devices. $120-$290

Slings $50-$80.

Harris bi-pod $90 or atlas $275-300.

Rings and bases $200-300

Rangefinder $100- $500

Then the price of travel to different ranges because no one wants to shoot the same place all the time if you want to be good a shooting a tactical rifle so you have to think of that.

 

 

as far as cal. buy 308 win. its a good all-around round.

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My outline was a starting point. A very SOLID starting point but a starting point just the same. Ammo and training will be the two expenses that eclipse all else over time....

I totally agree with you on that. I just wanted him to know just like any shooting discipline it never really stops at the basics.

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The only sticking point is learning long range precision shooting outside the Army

 

Shane I said:

 

There is no way you can self teach yourself long range shooting 10% as good as the Army can.

 

I didn't say you couldn't learn outside the Army, I said you can't teach yourself as well as the Army can.

 

It can and is done every day. In fact you can get BETTER training than the Army has to offer in civillian channels. However, this is an endeavor measured in years and a SIGNIFICANT financial commitment.

 

There are some civilian schools that are very good and you are correct that it will take years to make you a better long range shot than an "average" Army sniper (and a lot of money spent in the process). The Army and USMC don't have the luxury of taking years to do so. Shooting a rifle well is one thing and learning the fieldcraft of a sniper is another. Long range shooting and sniping are really two different things.

 

Tactically, there is a big difference between a skilled long range shooter and an Army or Marine sniper. If they were opposing one another the sniper would move in and take out the long range shooter without the shooter even seeing the sniper (the sniper is not going to carry a bullseye target on a target frame).

 

My plan is go for MP then after become a law enforcement officer.

 

Joe if you want to be an Army sniper the only feeder MOSs (jobs you are already qualified in and must have to go to the school) were Infantryman, Cavalry Scout, and Special Forces. If this still holds your chances of going to sniper school as an MP are zero.

 

One of the best, low cost ways to learn about rifle shooting is to go to an Appleseed weekend.

 

http://www.appleseedinfo.org/index.html

 

You will only need your 10/22 so there's not really any great additional cash outlay. Ammo, transportation, and the school fee. There's one this month and in June in NJ but not being sure where you live. One in PA or NY may accommodate you better.

 

I watched ranger training yesterday, that was serious.

 

All training is serious. Any training will take you to the limits of what you think your physical and mental endurance is and prove to you that you can do more. This is done in different ways depending on what the training is (basic, infatntry, ranger, OCS, SF etc). I have never heard anyone say the physical portion of______training was a piece of cake. The only people I've ever met that could say that were Navy SEALS (already having been thru SEAL training) I saw in jump school at Ft Benning. But they didn't.

 

Joe if there's any thing else you care to ask let me know.

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Just thought of something to add considering the issue. The Model 70 Winchester Carlos Hathcock used was really only capable of about 2 minutes of angle. Most long range shooters would consider that shotgun accuracy. Its not the equipment as much as how its used.

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Griz, for the sake of this conversation I am only referencing the shooting aspect, nothing else. I dont want to get too wrapped up in splitting hairs (because I fully admit thats what I'm doing here) but I still say it can and is done. Its just the harder road. Again speaking only on the long range precision shooting aspect. The thing is this, Benning does a great job but many consider the shooting aspect a base line education with much more and better metheds to be learned elsewhere. Think of it as post graduate school :D The military is just now catching up to things the civilian world has known and been doing for some time. Many of these tecniques and equipment preferences have been borne out in the civy long range precision shooting sports arena. So if you are actively competing in long range tactical rifle comps, you are learning quite a bit.

 

But like I said we are 99% in agreement. :drinks:

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Shane, I'm in 100% agreement with you I'm only making the point that long range shooting and sniping are in many ways two different things. I'm saying teaching yourself is not the way to go. If you pursue long range competitive shooting you will attend countless clinics which is education outside of the military. As I said only about 20% of school at Benning is shooting and 80% fieldcraft. I realize that the military is in a constant game of catchup in many areas.

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You are 100% correct. The actual shooting is minor compared to the rest. In fact I think the physical fitness advice was the best advice in this thread as far as military preparedness goes. Because if you go infantry you will hump huMP HUMP!!!!

 

And to expand on your point, I dont think many realise just how tough it is and how much discipline is required. If anyone out there wants to have an idea of what Griz and I are talking about, in the dead of summer, go find an area in your yard, preferably with some ant hills nearby. Go lay there for three hours without moving, without swatting at bugs, without taking a break, without taking a drink or getting up to pee. You havent even scratched the surface yet but if you dont have the discipline for this tiny little excersize....

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I'd suggest taking an Appleseed Shoot with your 10/22 and practice the skills they teach you there.

 

As suggested work on the PT...get some new sneakers hit the pavement now that winter is over. Don't over look your mental fitness either. Sounds like have hard time making decisions and you might want to work on that. You need to be decisive and live with your decisions. I'm a former Coastie, but basic training is about character building, the real skills come after wards.

 

Save your $, because you ain't gonna make squat until you get some rank or special pay.

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I would imagine so. Different roles, different equipment. I'd venture to guess a lot less field craft and intel skills and more working with as part of the squad. I'll differ to the experts. Call it sniper lite. I'm sure Griz or Shane will set us straight, but DMR might be a prerequisite for sniper school.

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I spoke to an old football coach of mine about all this the other day. vietnam era drill serg.

 

He said the same thing. Told me to lose the weight first, and get rid of my flat feet lol The mental prep is the key

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Joe, I didn't mean to stomp on ya, but was telling you as I see the situation. I wish you the best and thank you for wanting to be part of the Americans that are willing to give their country a blank check on their lives without looking for collective bargaining rights. It is about serving your country, not the other way around. Good luck, stay safe.

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Not to be a downer... but is this really what you want? I understand people's desire to go fight to 'defend' our country and protect 'freedom'... but I don't see what we're doing in Afghanistan or Iraq as doing either. I just feel most young folks get suckered into the machinations of the politicians in DC, than defending us over here.

 

Just food for thought if you're ever over there wondering what the hell we're doing in shitholes like that.

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Not to be a downer... but is this really what you want? I understand people's desire to go fight to 'defend' our country and protect 'freedom'... but I don't see what we're doing in Afghanistan or Iraq as doing either. I just feel most young folks get suckered into the machinations of the politicians in DC, than defending us over here.

 

Just food for thought if you're ever over there wondering what the hell we're doing in shitholes like that.

 

I know, my friend is getting back today and he said that he never wants to see sand again. By the time i got in their the war would be over. I'm in it for the brotherhood and the chance to be a hero. But again it is still alot to think about before signing anything

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and the chance to be a hero.

If you are joining with that in mind, don't. You will only get others killed by being reckless. You are not going to be of any use in the military. Some one that does a heroic deed is born out of necessity of the moment and the need to save your brothers, not the intentional egocentric need for recognition. I knew people like you. Stay here and keep reloading.

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