ak74's , who has what? where did you get it?

[intercooler 41]

Dan just ordered one, i am waiting on his review before i pull the trigger(no pun intended) on that one. (the CAI at JG)

[chris327 30]

yea spoke to dan, doesn't have it yet. I know nothing about ak's wondering would it even be worth buying and changing over to wood furniture? How hard is it to change and what does decent wood cost.

Ps. Just want to confirm ak74 bullpup is not nj legal is it? Doesn't seem to meet the overall 26(not sure if that's correct) inch requirement?

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

Switching to wood is super easy. Price depends on what wood you get, surplus romy AKM furniture runs about 10 bucks for a set and surplus russian laminate runs upwards of $200. Pick your poisen.

[vladtepes 1,060]

yea spoke to dan, doesn't have it yet. I know nothing about ak's wondering would it even be worth buying and changing over to wood furniture? How hard is it to change and what does decent wood cost.

Ps. Just want to confirm ak74 bullpup is not nj legal is it? Doesn't seem to meet the overall 26(not sure if that's correct) inch requirement?

 

 

if you want a wood AK74 pick up a Saiga and convert it.. true Russian build.. chrome lined barrel.. and it will have any furniture you want..

 

don't go the bullpup route.. IMO the fire control group would be awful..

 

real russian construction

chrome lined barrel

red wood

smooth as hell Tapco G2 trigger

 

this gun would cost around $700 to replicate including parts... not including the brake.. but that would be a quality gun.. the century guns are far cheaper... but after looking into it they appear to have a ton of problems..

 

 

Century Information.. I would NOT buy a century gun..

 

http://www.ak47world.com/images/rifles.html

 

PLEASE NOTE:

 

Not all U.S. modified Century Arms AK-47 variants (WASR-10, SAR-1, SAR-2, & SAR-3 Rifles) develop problems.

 

But, far too many of the Century Arms U.S. modified AK-47 VARIANTS HAVE PROBLEMS, like trigger slap, (due to cheap malformed cast trigger groups); canted front sights; canted gas blocks; improper sizing of the magazine well (mags fit too tight, ot too loose...); and bad, or sloppy headspacing not found in anywhere near such numbers in 100% FOREIGN-ASSEMBLED AK-47 VARIANTS from China, Hungary (F.E.G.), Egypt (Maadi), or Bulgaria, and the "TRUE Romanian" AK-47 RIFLES, like the ones only imported in 1997, before the "Great Deceiver", Bill Clinton signed another executive order halting 100% foreign-assembled AK-47 varinats that accept hi-cap mags, like the better-made 100% "TRUE" Romanian Cugir Arsenal Rifles, known as the WUM-1, CUR-1 (Romak-1) in 7.62 x 39mm caliber, & the AK-74 caliber (5.45 x 39mm) Romanian AK-74 variants known as WUM-2, CUR-2, or Romak-2 Rifles.

 

What is realy strange on other websites, is why so many people want to defend a rifle that is known to have the problems outlined above, unless some of the discussion is from FFL's who love the Century Arms TRASH for the great profits they derive from them?

 

Remember, AK47World.com DOES NOT SELL GUNS!!!

 

So, what would we derive from being truthful about POOR QUALITY AK-47's?

 

WE ARE ONLY LOOKING OUT FOR OUR CUSTOMERS, and therefore wish to guide them towards better made-foreign-built AK-47 variants.

[chris327 30]

Vlad 700 is a little more than I was looking to spend, but I guess I could slowly buy parts for it for the final product. I dont have to spend the 700 the first day. Anyone know who in north jersey might have a saiga 5.45 in stock so I could check it out before I make my decision.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Vlad 700 is a little more than I was looking to spend, but I guess I could slowly buy parts for it for the final product. I dont have to spend the 700 the first day. Anyone know who in north jersey might have a saiga 5.45 in stock so I could check it out before I make my decision.

 

 

that is exactly what I would do.. buy what I could afford and piece the rest together..

[Dan 177]

Century Information.. I would NOT buy a century gun..

 

http://www.ak47world...ges/rifles.html

 

Good article Vlad. Covers the issue I have with my Arsenal's SLR finish, it sounds like it is this baked on resin type stuff. Its not as bad as the article describes, but I would have preferred just plain parkerize over it.

 

As for the CAI AK74, as soon as I get mine, I will be posting detailed high res photos and an honest range report. If its garbage, I will let everyone know as I wouldn't want people to make any mistakes in purchasing one.

 

That being said, many of the reports of CAI issues I found stemmed from years ago , and have thus been corrected. Rumor has it that CAI keeps the price ultra-low to combat the bad reputation. I know I'm not going to get a Saiga custom build quality gun, but I do hope that it is functional , reliable, and battle accurate. My intentions for this rifle is to be a fun blaster, ripping through magazines of cheap 5.45. We shall see!

[chris327 30]

How much could the stock saiga be found for? So I know I'm not getting completly ripped off. And other question with saiga is does it take normal double stack ak74 mags or is it just saiga mags?

Sorry for all the questions I just know nothing about ak's.

[ns79 0]

Just FYI. Arsenal is now offering New Jersey & New York State Compliant Rifles the SGL24-61 and the SGL34-61.

 

Hope my links work

 

http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/product.php?productid=16&cat=16&page=1

 

http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/product.php?productid=15&cat=16&page=1

 

http://www.k-var.com/shop/home.php?cat=430

[vladtepes 1,060]

Just FYI. Arsenal is now offering New Jersey & New York State Compliant Rifles the SGL24-61 and the SGL34-61.

 

Hope my links work

 

http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/product.php?productid=16&cat=16&page=1

 

http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/product.php?productid=15&cat=16&page=1

 

http://www.k-var.com/shop/home.php?cat=430

 

 

I still don't get the cost of those guns.. they are getting everything at COST being a dealer.. I am paying retail and can build those guns for at least $100 less across the board..

not knocking arsenal I know the guns are good.. but a Saiga is a Saiga..

[vladtepes 1,060]

How much could the stock saiga be found for? So I know I'm not getting completly ripped off. And other question with saiga is does it take normal double stack ak74 mags or is it just saiga mags?

Sorry for all the questions I just know nothing about ak's.

 

 

I would say UP TO $450/$475

but also depends on BBL and caliber.. let me know when you get really serious... and I will see if there is any way I can help you out..

Saigas take normal AK magazines.. some need a bullet guide.. again depends on caliber..

[Dan 177]

I still don't get the cost of those guns.. they are getting everything at COST being a dealer.. I am paying retail and can build those guns for at least $100 less across the board..

not knocking arsenal I know the guns are good.. but a Saiga is a Saiga..

 

Labor, overhead of running a business, profit, etc

 

Its like building a computer. For the same money as someone buys a Dell, I can build one with better and faster retail components. Just some people like the whole package ready to go out of the box, lack the capability, lack the time, or are apprehensive to try it themselves.

[vjf915 456]

but I do hope that it is functional , reliable, and battle accurate.

Which is exactly what you would get with a Saiga

 

How much could the stock saiga be found for? So I know I'm not getting completly ripped off. And other question with saiga is does it take normal double stack ak74 mags or is it just saiga mags?

Sorry for all the questions I just know nothing about ak's.

I bought mine used, in relatively good condition for $300. Brand new, they shouldn't cost much more than ~$400, if not a little less. They can take Saiga or Surefire mags stock, or can take AK47 mags if you install a bullet guide. The bullet guide is relatively cheap, I think you can order a kit that includes the hardware and the tap for $20.

 

I still don't get the cost of those guns.. they are getting everything at COST being a dealer.. I am paying retail and can build those guns for at least $100 less across the board..

not knocking arsenal I know the guns are good.. but a Saiga is a Saiga..

I was thinking the same thing. I think it could be built for even less than that. I built mine for $650, and that included the quad rail, the same stock, two different pistol grips, a sling mount, and three 15 round mags. One gun there was $800, the other was $900. Those prices are pretty ridiculous compared to what can be done for less.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

I still don't get the cost of those guns.. they are getting everything at COST being a dealer.. I am paying retail and can build those guns for at least $100 less across the board..

not knocking arsenal I know the guns are good.. but a Saiga is a Saiga..

 

Well, they are using real HG retainers, and they are using higher quality furniture. plus labor. red jacket charges $350 for the pistol grip conversion alone so it could be worse...

[vjf915 456]

$350?!?! He has balls to charge that much, and he only gets away with it because he has his own tv show.

[RecessedFilter 222]

Well, they are using real HG retainers, and they are using higher quality furniture. plus labor. red jacket charges $350 for the pistol grip conversion alone so it could be worse...

 

I was waiting for you to enlighten this thread!

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

yeah. saigas are not the cure-all end-all.. I agree with vlad on many points, however it is not always the best route.

 

If you do the conversion with k-var (authentic) furniture, it runs up the cost. Press off the front sight base and press off the gas block and put on a real HG retainer...that takes alot of time and tools. now buy a totally new gas block....and a totally new front sight base....and a muzzle brake. Dont forget the cleaning rod.

 

Congrats, you are now at or likely over the cost of an arsenal and you spent alot of time doing it. If you are doing to compare a converted saiga to a arsenal gun you must look at the whole picture. You cannot say a converted saiga gets you the same thing.

[vladtepes 1,060]

yeah. saigas are not the cure-all end-all.. I agree with vlad on many points, however it is not always the best route.

 

If you do the conversion with k-var (authentic) furniture, it runs up the cost. Press off the front sight base and press off the gas block and put on a real HG retainer...that takes alot of time and tools. now buy a totally new gas block....and a totally new front sight base....and a muzzle brake. Dont forget the cleaning rod.

 

Congrats, you are now at or likely over the cost of an arsenal and you spent alot of time doing it. If you are doing to compare a converted saiga to a arsenal gun you must look at the whole picture. You cannot say a converted saiga gets you the same thing.

 

 

does it not just require a press and a little patience... I have never pressed one off because there is no mechanical advantage to pressing on the retainer... once the barrel is notched the retainer will be held in place... while pressing it might be the "correct" means I have not found a reason it creates a functionally superior rifle..

[Dan 177]

This is my understanding of a true full Saiga conversion: Saiga Forum link

 

Took this guy 10 hours to do. Thats worth something.

 

 

Paying Arsenal for a complete conversion gun looks a little more rational after looking at what needs to be done for a true full conversion.

[intercooler 41]

dan is right on the money, that is why i just bought an arsenal. I am gonna get a CAI one for my wife depending on how yours looks, or convert a saiga to a pistol grip (the rear conversion only)

[vladtepes 1,060]

This is my understanding of a true full Saiga conversion: Saiga Forum link

 

Took this guy 10 hours to do. Thats worth something.

 

 

Paying Arsenal for a complete conversion gun looks a little more rational after looking at what needs to be done for a true full conversion.

 

 

what makes that a "true conversion" the tapco saw pistol grip?

trust me.. I have had many Saigas apart in pieces... the ONLY thing done on that gun I have not done is a muzzle brake.. and 10 hours the first time might be good.. but after you have done it a few times...it just flies bye..

 

not trying to be an a**.. but just saying..

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

what makes that a "true conversion" the tapco saw pistol grip?

trust me.. I have had many Saigas apart in pieces... the ONLY thing done on that gun I have not done is a muzzle brake.. and 10 hours the first time might be good.. but after you have done it a few times...it just flies bye..

 

not trying to be an a**.. but just saying..

 

you pressed on a lugged gas block, too?

 

BTW, those front sight bases are a PITA to replace

[vladtepes 1,060]

you pressed on a lugged gas block, too?

 

BTW, those front sight bases are a PITA to replace

 

 

I have no need to press on a gas block with a bayonet lug on it? the point more simply being I have used a press to move stubborn annoying things before.. and while it was a pain in the a**.. it was not the end all of difficult..

[Dan 177]

what makes that a "true conversion" the tapco saw pistol grip?

trust me.. I have had many Saigas apart in pieces... the ONLY thing done on that gun I have not done is a muzzle brake.. and 10 hours the first time might be good.. but after you have done it a few times...it just flies bye..

 

not trying to be an a**.. but just saying..

 

Need to have 922r parts right? By true conversion, I'm saying one that is in line with a real AK-74 milspec rifle style, of course minus FA / burst stuff.

 

If you can do all of this in a few hours, hats off for you.

 

Another example is this is from Rifle Dynamic's site, top is your basic conversion , bottom is the full conversion. Figure in the price the media-blast , parkerize, and moly coat which is a $200+ job alone. linky

 

 

Basic Saiga Conversion $400.00

• Basic Saiga Rifle Conversions,
• Remove stock furniture, triggerguard, FCG
• Move trigger forward to original position
• Fit new G-2 trigger group
• Refit bolt carrier
• Install bullet guide
• Fit magazine well/Magazine catch
• Dehorn parts that operator touches
• Sandblast, Parkerize and finish Norrells Moly Resin
• Testfire and zero

Full Saiga Conversion $725.00

• Remove stock furniture, triggerguard, FCG
• Move trigger forward to original position
• Fit new G-2 trigger group
• Refit bolt carrier
• Install bullet guide
• Fit magazine well/Magazine catch
• Dehorn parts that operator touches
• Remove barrel
• Remove gas and sight blocks from barrel
• Cut handguard retainer/fit handguards
• Fit new gas tube
• Re-install gas/sight blocks to customers spec
• Thread barrel
• Re-install barrel and headspace
• Add detent in front sight for flashider
• Sandblast, Parkerize and finish with Norrells Moly Resin
• Testfire and zero

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

I have no need to press on a gas block with a bayonet lug on it? the point more simply being I have used a press to move stubborn annoying things before.. and while it was a pain in the a**.. it was not the end all of difficult..

 

well, it is an accessory lug on the gas block. I have pressed stubborn things too, but for some reason pressing off a gas block irks me. the point is, with the cleaning rod it will look like crap without it. Remember, the reason for hypothetically putting it on is for the fair comparison of arsenal vs saiga conversion.

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

Need to have 922r parts right? By true conversion, I'm saying one that is in line with a real AK-74 milspec rifle style, of course minus FA / burst stuff.

 

If you can do all of this in a few hours, hats off for you.

 

Another example is this is from Rifle Dynamic's site, top is your basic conversion , bottom is the full conversion. Figure in the price the media-blast , parkerize, and moly coat which is a $200+ job alone. linky

 

 

Basic Saiga Conversion $400.00

• Basic Saiga Rifle Conversions,
• Remove stock furniture, triggerguard, FCG
• Move trigger forward to original position
• Fit new G-2 trigger group
• Refit bolt carrier
• Install bullet guide
• Fit magazine well/Magazine catch
• Dehorn parts that operator touches
• Sandblast, Parkerize and finish Norrells Moly Resin
• Testfire and zero

 

with the exception of paint.. yes.. I could easily do that in 2.5 hours.. there are people on this board who have watched me.. lol

 

 

* disassembled the gun completely..

* cleaned and light sanded bare bottom of receiver, prep for paint,

* paint bottom of receiver

* notch barrel for lower retainer

* install G2 fire control group

* installation and fitting of furniture

* modify magazine catch

* test fire

 

roughly 2.5 hours..

I am no gunsmith.. I am no expert.. and am not trying to pretend to be.. I know my limitations.. but when it comes to Saigas.. I have a pretty good understanding of them... I am confident I could press off a gas block.. but I just have not had reason.. if someone really wanted to have the cleaning rod present.. it is just a little more time and work.. it is not like reinventing something.. the knowledge to do it is simple.. pins have to come out.. and the thing needs to be pressed off.. it is likely something you could get a local auto shop to do.. it is not the equivalent of machining a custom muzzle attachment or something.. you are simply pressing parts on and off.. now when it comes to building one from a complete flat.. where it needs to be riveted and all that.. that IS out of my scope of knowledge... I don't KNOW that I could do that.. I think I could.. but I don't know I could.. lol

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

with the exception of paint.. yes.. I could easily do that in 2.5 hours.. there are people on this board who have watched me.. lol

 

 

* disassembled the gun completely..

* cleaned and light sanded bare bottom of receiver, prep for paint,

* paint bottom of receiver

* notch barrel for lower retainer

* install G2 fire control group

* installation and fitting of furniture

* modify magazine catch

* test fire

 

roughly 2.5 hours..

I am no gunsmith.. I am no expert.. and am not trying to pretend to be.. I know my limitations.. but when it comes to Saigas.. I have a pretty good understanding of them... I am confident I could press off a gas block.. but I just have not had reason.. if someone really wanted to have the cleaning rod present.. it is just a little more time and work.. it is not like reinventing something.. the knowledge to do it is simple.. pins have to come out.. and the thing needs to be pressed off.. it is likely something you could get a local auto shop to do.. it is not the equivalent of machining a custom muzzle attachment or something.. you are simply pressing parts on and off.. now when it comes to building one from a complete flat.. where it needs to be riveted and all that.. that IS out of my scope of knowledge... I don't KNOW that I could do that.. I think I could.. but I don't know I could.. lol

 

 

I understand where you are coming from but what im talking about is that you always compare what you did to an arsenal and say you saved X amount of dollars and got the same thing. But the fact is what do does NOT compare to an arsenal neither in time nor material costs and the end result is not the same.

 

 

I am paying retail and can build those guns for at least $100 less across the board..

Over your typical conversion, you need $50 more for a new FSB, $50 more for a new gas block, $5-10 more for cleaning rod, $50 more for a brake, plus even more time. Oh yeah, and to groove the barrel dont you have to remove the entire barrel? Do you have an end mill to put in the groove?

[RecessedFilter 222]

*subscribes to thread*:popcorn

[Dan 177]

A very attractive option if the cleaning rod holder points and muzzle brake are things you can live without.

 

If you figure $70 an hour for labor at 2.5 hours = $175. Then factor in a professional refinish for $200, you are at $375. Rifle dynamics charges $400 for the basic conversion including the refinish, so its actually a good deal.. that is if you want the refinish.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

A very attractive option if the cleaning rod holder points and muzzle brake are things you can live without.

 

If you figure $70 an hour for labor at 2.5 hours = $175. Then factor in a professional refinish for $200, you are at $375. Rifle dynamics charges $400 for the basic conversion including the refinish, so its actually a good deal.. that is if you want the refinish.

 

 

I agree. The only reason im ranting here is not because I think one is better than the other. It is just because vlad informs people that a basic saiga conversion is the same thing as an arsenal but cheaper.