My son was threaten by a classmate to be shot in the head

[djg0770 481]

I'm very skeptical of all of these "prevention education" programs.

 

That said - I'm quite surprised this kid is still permitted anywhere near a private school.

[tony357 386]

It seems to me that i remeber alot of bad kids ( behavurial ) being sent to private catholic schools as a last chance effort to straighten them out..

[JackDaWack 2,895]

You would be surprised the things that get brushed under the carpet at private schools.... take it from someone who went to catholic school until college. When i was a junior one of my classmates put a senior in the hospital... real bad beat down half the school witnessed. Police got involved law suites were flying, It happened that 2 weeks of school before summer... my class mate missed finals from being suspended was waived into senior year and was sitting in my homeroom first day senior year... I was shocked the school let him stay, but he was on the football team.

[Babaganoosh 192]

Private schools want your money. That's why they don't kick kids out easily

[raz-0 1,259]

Some talk about other contributing factors...this kid has 'demanded' to see the other boy's privates while in the bathroom to the point of pulling them back wards while standing at the urinal. He will slide on his back under a stall to get a peak (I told my son to piss on his face if he does it again), spends recess time with the girls (who get creeped out by him) and does not play around with the other boys. He is not involved in any extra circular activities like recreational soccer, football, baseball, etc. Has no outside friends or kids in the neighbor to hang out with, even though there are plenty of kids around his area. He is very disrespectful to substitute teachers, doesn't care about his grades or his weekly responsibility reports because there aren't any repercussions at home and on and on and on.

 

The kid is a huge disruption to the class and my son has chastised him a few times because he can't concentrate on his work with this kid poking him in the back, throwing things at him etc.almost goading my son to take him out. I told the principal that my son has a breaking point like any other human and being a wrestler and football player, he is showing great restraint at not popping this kid one. My son has gone after much bigger kids on the football field if he was hit with a cheap shot or a late hit, my boy ain't no pansy. And for a 6th grader, he is 5'3" 105 lbs, skinny, but quite muscular and the tallest in his class. If you check out the Appleseed Thread you can see what he looks like. My son is a Sheepdog and looks out for the flock whether it is his sisters, his classmates or teammates. Crap, even during special church events they assign him to watch on our our most beloved, but very old and feeble priest so he doesn't fall or get himself into any trouble. I am very proud that he is showing such great restraint and maturity in this. His dad would have blown a fuse a long time ago.

 

SO lets see. Multiple cases of.. well I tried to look up what the NJ statute for it would be, but trying to check out other kids genitals throguh force is, I'm suspecting, a crime. It definitely would be if the problem kid whipped it out in front of others. As a rational human being, I'm having a hard time believing forciong another kid to show you theirs isn't a crime, but I'm not finding a statute that covers it clearly. The closest might be criminal restraint, but does that apply to something of short duration.

 

Then you have peeping under the stall. That's a no-no under 2C:14-9.

 

In general, assuming your profile of the problem kid is correct, he's a high risk child. Probably the quickest, most effective thing you could do is get a restraining order, and perhaps have a lawyer contact the school about a potential lawsuit over the kid. Make it clear that keeping the problem kid around is not going to be the most cost effective thing. Private schools understand budget, and most of them have a clause in their contracts regarding behavior. If your kids school does not have language that basically says kids who can't behave forfeit tuition, they should probably be made to consider such language as terms of not suing them.

[deviated rationality 4]

This is pretty sad. I think the biggest issue that parents have is they were intimidated by guns (more than likely due to their parents) and never learned anything about them. As a result they never gained the proper respect that should be given to firearms, the responsibility, the reality of their scope of life changing power, and the fact that guns are not a tool to intimidate, but a last resort.

 

Because of this now their children think guns are jokes and if they actually find and use one tomorrow that person will be who they were the morning before. The sad reality is far from that misconception.

 

This falls along the same lines of the conversations that parents SHOULD be having with their kids about sex, drugs, violence, financial literacy, and how the real world actually functions.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

SO lets see. Multiple cases of.. well I tried to look up what the NJ statute for it would be, but trying to check out other kids genitals throguh force is, I'm suspecting, a crime. It definitely would be if the problem kid whipped it out in front of others. As a rational human being, I'm having a hard time believing forciong another kid to show you theirs isn't a crime, but I'm not finding a statute that covers it clearly. The closest might be criminal restraint, but does that apply to something of short duration.

 

I would think this would be some form of Sexual Asualt

 

 

Then you have peeping under the stall. That's a no-no under 2C:14-9.

 

Well let me just say, if the kid got pee'd on, the other kid could just say they were startled and whoops, he got pee'd on, so sorry, but you shouldn't have been sliding under a stall in the bathroom.

[raz-0 1,259]

You would think it would be sexual assault, but reading the statute, the requires sexual touching of sexual areas of the body.

 

2C:14-9 is about PEEPING. Assaulting someone with bodily fluids is also a crime, but a different statute. I'm sure you could make the "oops" defense when you were not expecting ot be interrupted taking a leak in private. I was referring to the problem kid looking under the stall.

[bry@n 195]

any update on this?

[Wojo 98]

Alright, here is an update...a lot of details to cover briefly and I am sure questions to follow. As much as I hate this happening to my son, this has been quite educational.

 

I met with the detective and I will brake down several areas we discussed. First off, really cool woman, 4 kids, been doing DARE / kid crimes for almost twenty years, hubby is also a career cop and neither anti-gun types. We talked about firearms schools, kids who go to the range are less likely to be involved with shooting crimes (parental contact hours) and other shooting sports related issues.

 

Gun Control - I was told that there weren't any registered weapons in the house when I asked if she checked. She artfully dodged the question if it is SOP to do a NJSP check, but the smile indicated it is and I would expect nothing less as is should be. My concerns about the much older sister's bf who is an aspiring rap artist, having an unregistered weapon in the house and this kid having potential access was something she did not think about, but made note of. Dirt bags usually don't have registered weapons, holsters or safes. Let's say his sister is known to the LE community.

 

A psych-eval was conducted at a local medical facility on Tuesday and she read it in detail and I get the impression while satisfied with the report, was not totally convinced with the medical communities findings. The father was in complete denial, she to her credit, told it like it is. She agreed 100% with my quasi-professional observations of him being a high-risk kid in the future. Moving forward, I will be emailing her with any new developments in the matter because the catholic schools tend not to 'invite' law enforcement into matters as much as the public schools do. She knows my son first hand from doing the DARE programs over the years at the school and she has seen first hand how the other kid has issues.

 

It is safe to say this kid is a big blip on the radar for future problems. Ideal candidate to be lured into a cult, gang, terrorist, sex-offender, druggie, etc. The saddest part is, he parents are probably not going to get the help he needs. The detective will be visiting the class and pulling all the boys out and having a talk about what bullying really is, and what is considered normal boy behavior. Lightly punching someone in the arm for a punch buggie is not bullying if all the kids are doing it to each other. Which is contrary to what his parents think. Being called a 'big baby' while you are acting out in class is not considered bullying. These are the two BIG bullying events my son has been accused of doing. The detective told them straight out if the kid had friends and a normal social life, he would understand this but he lacks the skills and parental guidance to distinguish the difference. Bottom line, they were trying to scrape together ANYTHING to place the blame on my son. The detective advised me in a comical way to leave my son alone because he is a great kid and did nothing wrong.

 

As the rumor mill in the school went into overdrive, I was contacted by a few parents. All had nothing but positive things to say about my son and without exception, all had concerns and shared stories about how weird this kid is. We've have done our part, now it is up to the parents and the school to address the facts. Me, I have a big hammer at the ready and anything that can makes this case escalate will be addressed swiftly and with full cooperation from the law. My biggest concern is for my 4 year old little princess who also goes to this school and if this little turd touches her out of retaliation, we are going full on ugly-mode immediately, and all legal options will be considered reasonable at that time. Let's hope that this is going to take a positive twist and he will be on the right path. One can only hope...

[hd2000fxdl 422]

A psych-eval was conducted at a local medical facility on Tuesday and she read it in detail and I get the impression while satisfied with the report, was not totally convienced with the medical communities findings. The father was in complete denial, she to her credit, told it like it is. She agreed 100% with my quasi-professional observations of him being a high-risk kid in the future. Moving forward, I will be emailing her with any new developments in the matter because the catholic schools tend not to 'invite' law enforcement into matters as much as the public schools do. She knows my son first hand from doing the DARE programs over the years at the school and she has seen first hand how the other kid has issues.

 

 

 

Thanks for the updates, I know I for one am interested is the final outcome. One thing, The section above, thought that privilege was attached to that and only the assessment would be able to be communicated.

 

Harry

[Wojo 98]

Thanks for the updates, I know I for one am interested is the final outcome. One thing, The section above, thought that privilege was attached to that and only the assessment would be able to be communicated.

 

Harry

 

You are 100% correct. Nothing on the medical report was shared with me. Only that my professional observations were accurate and well substantiated. My comment that a 'standardized' exam may not address certain areas... like why do you always have a 1,000 yard stare when people talk to you? Or why don't you say hello when people greet you? Have you ever looked someone in the eye longer the a nano-second? Have your parents ever taught you how important a firm handshake and looking a person in the eye is when you meet them?

 

Think government approved process with all sorts of PC influences to protect the patient.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

You are 100% correct. Nothing on the medical report was shared with me. Only that my professional observations were accurate and well substantiated. My comment that a 'standardized' exam may not address certain areas... like why do you always have a 1,000 yard stare when people talk to you? Or why don't you say hello when people greet you? Have you ever looked someone in the eye longer the a nano-second? Have your parents ever taught you how important a firm handshake and looking a person in the eye is when you meet them?

 

Think government approved process with all sorts of PC influences to protect the patient.

 

Very nice, glad to hear you have a person you are working with on this that isn't taking the push it under the rug approach.

 

Harry

[Wojo 98]

So now the 'friendly' detective has lost all credibility in my eyes.

 

I went to the school today as part of the follow up and discussed with the principal my discussions with the detective and the principal has told me hers. I was surprised at what I heard. I get a phone call this afternoon from the detective denying she said a number of things and completely did a 180 saying that my son, as well as all the boys in the case were bullying each other. When I asked her specifically about some of her statements, she denied making them. I took frigging notes during our meeting...WTF? It seems, and I know that, detectives play the role of being on 'your' side to get you to talk, but we were talking specifics and not opinions here. I am disgusted with this woman and she has lost ALL credibility at this point in time. I mean I was seriously taking notes and making quote marks of her statements and now she recants almost everything. I'm annoyed to say the least. Smells like NJ politics are in play here. After I shared my disgust and disbelief she wanted to know if I wanted to come down and talk some more. I flat said she has a credibility problem in my book and I'd prefer not to speak with her again unless it is absolutely necessary.

 

Sorry to all good cops, but, over the years I have lost so much respect for so many individual LEO's. It is no wonder the general public has lost so much faith in the profession. I still believe most are good, but she has made the number come much closer to the 50/50 point on the balance beam. Years ago I would say I thought good versus bad was 90/10, but seeing things professionally, that number continues to plummet and is getting closer to Obama's approval rating.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

 

So what's the next step?

[bry@n 195]

what about pressing charges now?

[Babaganoosh 192]

You are 100% correct. Nothing on the medical report was shared with me. Only that my professional observations were accurate and well substantiated. My comment that a 'standardized' exam may not address certain areas... like why do you always have a 1,000 yard stare when people talk to you? Or why don't you say hello when people greet you? Have you ever looked someone in the eye longer the a nano-second? Have your parents ever taught you how important a firm handshake and looking a person in the eye is when you meet them?

 

Think government approved process with all sorts of PC influences to protect the patient.

 

Sounds like he may have a mild case of some sort of autism

[djg0770 481]

Sounds like he may have a mild case of some sort of autism

 

I'm beyond blaming "some disease" for bad parenting. When I was a kid, it was "ooo - his parents are divorced" then it was "oh, he's hyperactive"...

 

[Babaganoosh 192]

I'm beyond blaming "some disease" for bad parenting. When I was a kid, it was "ooo - his parents are divorced" then it was "oh, he's hyperactive"...

 

 

I hate to break it to you but autism is not just "some disease". Autism is very real and is becoming more and more prevalent nowadays. Even with the best parenting in the world things like....like why do you always have a 1,000 yard stare when people talk to you? Or why don't you say hello when people greet you? Have you ever looked someone in the eye longer the a nano-second? Have your parents ever taught you how important a firm handshake and looking a person in the eye is when you meet them? are going to happen time and time again. Especially with a child. No amount of good parenting can cure autism any more than good parenting can cure cancer.

 

I am not explaining away the kids actions. I am simply saying that those symptons sound like autism. You better hope you never end up with an autistic kid because I know a few people who do and it sucks.

[djg0770 481]

I hate to break it to you but autism is not just "some disease". Autism is very real and is becoming more and more prevalent nowadays. Even with the best parenting in the world things like....like why do you always have a 1,000 yard stare when people talk to you? Or why don't you say hello when people greet you? Have you ever looked someone in the eye longer the a nano-second? Have your parents ever taught you how important a firm handshake and looking a person in the eye is when you meet them? are going to happen time and time again. Especially with a child. No amount of good parenting can cure autism any more than good parenting can cure cancer.

 

I am not explaining away the kids actions. I am simply saying that those symptons sound like autism. You better hope you never end up with an autistic kid because I know a few people who do and it sucks.

 

Wow - way to take my point and blow it WAY out of proportion.

 

Autism (IMO) is the 'disease' du jour. Believe me, being the parent of a special needs kid, I know this more than anything. I also greatly greatly dislike people attempting to pigeon hole my kid or any kid into some allegedly medical diagnosis because he exhibits less than one symptom of said disease. I believe that good parenting can overcome some things. Full blown autism - no, I don't believe parenting can overcome that, but temper tantrums - yes, I believe that good parenting CAN overcome that. Society, and especially educators today want to bang pegs into whatever hole sorta fits kind maybe so they don't have to deal with "difficult" kids. Remember when you were in school Baba and you had that class clown who couldn't sit still? Today, he's in a "special needs" class. Yeah - that helps him a lot - isolate him from kids who exhibit normal behavior so that all he sees is equally unacceptable behavior and expect him to "be a better person" - how?????

 

But you're right, and I'm sure you're a doctor and could make the diagnosis over the interwebs. Hey guys - we gots our very own WebMD here!

[tony357 386]

hey dig, the russian roullete smiley may have been a poor choice of smiley to use in this thread.

 

try this one. :thsmiley_deadhorse:

[djg0770 481]

hey dig, the russian roullete smiley may have been a poor choice of smiley to use in this thread.

 

try this one. :thsmiley_deadhorse:

 

I always use the horse - I'm getting sick of beating the dead horse.

 

I changed it though...

[Wojo 98]

We are close with two different sets of parents that have autistic kids with varying degrees on the spectrum and this kid isn't autistic. He needs an a**-whooping and good parenting.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

We are close with two different sets of parents that have autistic kids with varying degrees on the spectrum and this kid isn't autistic. He needs an a**-whooping and good parenting.

 

Damn, what a change from what was going on just a few days ago. Just keep a level head, (not doubting you won't be) but sometime things like this take a unseen turn, but well though out and exercising any and all options for a resolution that is satisfactory to you can be had. Just don't get discouraged and think this through, remember the squeaky wheel get the oil.

 

Harry

[Dan 177]

So now the 'friendly' detective has lost all credibility in my eyes.

 

I went to the school today as part of the follow up and discussed with the principal my discussions with the detective and the principal has told me hers. I was surprised at what I heard. I get a phone call this afternoon from the detective denying she said a number of things and completely did a 180 saying that my son, as well as all the boys in the case were bullying each other. When I asked her specifically about some of her statements, she denied making them. I took frigging notes during our meeting...WTF? It seems, and I know that, detectives play the role of being on 'your' side to get you to talk, but we were talking specifics and not opinions here. I am disgusted with this woman and she has lost ALL credibility at this point in time. I mean I was seriously taking notes and making quote marks of her statements and now she recants almost everything. I'm annoyed to say the least. Smells like NJ politics are in play here. After I shared my disgust and disbelief she wanted to know if I wanted to come down and talk some more. I flat said she has a credibility problem in my book and I'd prefer not to speak with her again unless it is absolutely necessary.

 

Sorry to all good cops, but, over the years I have lost so much respect for so many individual LEO's. It is no wonder the general public has lost so much faith in the profession. I still believe most are good, but she has made the number come much closer to the 50/50 point on the balance beam. Years ago I would say I thought good versus bad was 90/10, but seeing things professionally, that number continues to plummet and is getting closer to Obama's approval rating.

 

IMO here is what I feel is going on...

 

Case closed in her book. Now if the kid explodes in the future, she is in the clear, as her report states that all the kids were bullying each other equally , aka no problem move along. If she pursued it and took the side of logic and common sense, now she is on the wringer if this kid does something bad. "You knew there was something wrong and you didn't do anything" is what she would get from everyone. Then her and NJ could be held liable.

 

The "system" is not set up to handle this kind of thing, and it breeds this kind of behavior from those who are supposed to be there to protect us. Even if the police acknowledge they feel there is something wrong with the kid, what are the remedies available to them? Child services problably won't step in provided the kid is being fed, taken to the dr's when sick, not being abused (bad parenting isnt being abused according to the law),etc. Then the kid passed the psych eval... What can the police do at this point? She may have been honest with you in your conversation, but she knows she can't do anything about it so its time to clam up and push it along.

 

Perhaps if you rally enough parents together in the class to act as one voice to the school, you can get this kid voted off the island. Especially if it is private school, they will listen if 20 parents are about to yank their kids out over this one problem child.

[Wojo 98]

Principal is retiring at the end of the year and is useless at this point. I posted the update before my son came home and told what this whack job was doing today. He is sitting at his desk making bird noises and the girls are looking out the window trying to find the sick bird. Then the dinosaur aged teacher thinks its the heater fan and calls maintenance. My son slyly tells the teacher to watch this idiot that every time you hear the noise he is hiding his mouth behind a book, laying his face down on the desk, etc. An old school nun would slap his knuckles to set him straight. I told my son if he chokes in front of you or drops to the floor, step over him and consider getting help for him if you feel like it. The hell with compassion and trying to do help this turd in life. He can choke on his first dick for all I care at this point.

[Soju 153]

So he is an attention seeker with behavioral issues which probably stemmed from some sort of home issue. It sucks you/your son have to deal with it, but that is really what you have to do. Deal with it. If he is not an actual threat, then suck it up. This is the unfortunate world we live in now.

[robot_hell 72]

Principal is retiring at the end of the year and is useless at this point. I posted the update before my son came home and told what this whack job was doing today. He is sitting at his desk making bird noises and the girls are looking out the window trying to find the sick bird.

 

I thought you were talking about the principal here O_o

 

Kid definitely seems to be craving attention... Unfortunately he's getting it in all the wrong ways. I agree that this is a parenting issue. A 1000 yard stare does not an autistic child make...

 

On that note-- what happened to the "zero tolerance" rule we hear so much about that has gotten kids who point a finger and say "bang" on the playground expelled? Or does that only apply to well-adjusted kids?

[Babaganoosh 192]

I thought you were talking about the principal here O_o

 

Kid definitely seems to be craving attention... Unfortunately he's getting it in all the wrong ways. I agree that this is a parenting issue. A 1000 yard stare does not an autistic child make...

 

On that note-- what happened to the "zero tolerance" rule we hear so much about that has gotten kids who point a finger and say "bang" on the playground expelled? Or does that only apply to well-adjusted kids?

 

It usually applies to public school kids, private schools want your money so they won't just toss kids out.

 

If you read his description he said there was more than a 1000 yard stare. I believe I bolded it a few posts up. I was just making an observation that those are autistic traits. Fact of the matter is that they are. You can't argue that. However having not ever met the kid and not being a Dr I am not qualified to make that decision. I am simply saying that those traits sometimes point to some sort of autism.

[raz-0 1,259]

On that note-- what happened to the "zero tolerance" rule we hear so much about that has gotten kids who point a finger and say "bang" on the playground expelled? Or does that only apply to well-adjusted kids?

 

This is actually one of those things I feel sympathy for NJ teachers on. It has to do with no child left behind. A well adjusted kid gets disruptive, they can be disciplined, and will likely respond to such. A kid who is chronically a problem will usually ALSO perform poorly on testing. Because the school gets punished for that, the school has a vested interest in getting the child tagged as having learning issues so their lower scores are less detrimental to the school when it comes to test scores. Once they are tagged as such, teahcers pretty much are required to put up with vast quantities of crap from them so that they are not "left behind." In reality, once tagged, they are given license to drag the entire class down with them.