Open Carry Phily Incident Charges Filed

[FearThisInc 35]

Don't flatter yourself. As a civilian member of Law Enforcement in NJ I find it personally insulting when someone in a sworn capacity, especially some 25yo with no experience, starts spouting BS about how he's better than the citizens he's supposed to be serving. You are the cop that gives all Law Enforcement Professionals a bad name in this state and I highly recommend you change your attitude or find a different career.

 

 

Never said I was better than anyone..

[vladtepes 1,060]

Ok.. so here it goes.. I am not saying that shootings are going to rise dramatically and stay there.. All I am saying is that withing the first weeks there would be a dramatic rise in the amount of gun calls.. I am sure it would slow down but in the beginning you will get EVERY person just doing it to "do it".. It's simple mathematics.. You raise the amount of guns into a community there is bound to be a rise in gun calls.. So I am not saying that there is going to be some huge amount of killings every day but at the beginning yes there will be a lot of gun calls which I am sure would slow down after a few weeks..

 

As for the comment about other states not having a lot of shootings.. You are talking about other states, not NJ.. Other states might not have killings everyday.. Fine.. But how long have they had carry laws?? Or how long have their gun laws been almost non existent? As stated before, NJ has NEVER been a gun state.. They slap on absurd restrictions and some towns screw guys trying to get permits than is imaginable.. So growing up in a state this is ALL some of us know.. And some people will never even touch a gun in their lives.. So you are right.. Down the road if NJ opened the gun laws like other states I am sure it would be fine.. But before that you will get a lot of shootings.. And I am not saying its going to be good guys like the guys on here.. A lot of scum will have easier access to the guns like the guy that shot the clerk at the liquor store.. But you will have the occasion where a civilian shoots someone because they felt threatened and it might turn out that the guy they shot was unarmed or just not in the right state of mind.. So whatever the case is there would be a rise in gun calls..

 

And the member that posted about my age requirements.. Again it goes back to being a cop.. You know how many kids 18,19,20,21,22,23... that I have had to lock up because they just were not grown up enough to realize what they were doing was the most retarded thing they could do.. Given that there are older guys out there who make the same mistakes but the majority are younger.. So again as a cop I feel there should be a age requirement.. I said 23-25 if it was my way not having anything to do with legal.. hypothetically is all I was saying...

 

As for the guy who went out of his way to look up my old iroc.. Thanks for taking the time lol.. Didn't know I meant that much to you.. But in defense.. I am not the A-hole cop that writes you a ticket for something I have.. As many of you stated I am also a civilian.. I am not the type of guy that is going to do one thing over here and then issue you the same thing over there.. If I do it then I don't write for it.. that's my philosophy.. But just for your knowing.. the car has been sold..

 

Now onto my test... First let me start of by saying that I do not know all the rules and regulations regarding restrictions on weapons.. We are not trained to know the exact restrictions on all weapons.. Most of our encounters with guys with guns is going to be criminal.. Not me stopping you and inspecting all your firearms.. With that:

 

1. If I see you are carrying concealed you should present your carry card but if you do not have one I am sure there is a way of looking it up.. IF neither is available then you would have an issue.. As stated before, how do I know if you have a permit to carry or are just some guy who decided to walk out with a gun on your hip.. If you can provide no documentation and there is no way of looking it up I would assume you would be detained until such documentation is available.. But on such a call a supervisor would always be notified..

 

2. In NJ mag capacity is 15

 

3. Must give an example on the hollow points.. If I recall correctly they are illegal unless used in proper manner.. but if a criminal walks in to rob a store and has hollow points I believe there is a charge for it

 

4. If I recall correctly you can have a collapsible on a pump shotgun.. But can honestly say that I probably wouldn't have been able to answer that before last week..

 

But Dr. I hope you realize that I never claimed to KNOW all the laws.. I clearly stated that already..No one knows EVERY part of EVERY law.. Have you ever picked up a 2C book?? It is impossible to know every part of it.. Even Judges have to look things up once in a while to make sure they are accurate in their rulings.. But again when am I going to be charging someone for an illegal weapon unless they are caught in a criminal act?? I am not going to walk up to your door and start asking if you have firearms and inspect them.. I am a street cop.. So when/if I run into this chances are its not going to be on a range guy like yourself.. It's going to be on a guy who just robbed the liquor store..

 

But once again I think this topic is done.. I have my views on things and you have your views.. I joined this site in hopes of learning some new things and maybe meeting some new guys that were into shooting.. But as always politics got involved and ruined it all.. Should have known better then to even start on such a topic here.. Just know that I am with most of yous on easing up the laws.. But feel that some restrictions are necessary.. Just figured that like mature people you would respect that someone has an opinion and view other then yours.. That there would be some common ground... But it is what it is I guess..

 

Also if you want facts.. Check where the majority of the guns that kill cops, innocent bystanders, etc come from.. Those free states that you want NJ to be like.. That's where the guns come from.. Studies have shown that a large percentage of guns come from states that lack gun control laws.. Just saying.. You guys wanted facts..

 

here is the problem.. you are ignoring logic..

 

day in and day out individuals within the united states legally and responsibly carry firearms.. and the streets are overflowing with the blood of the innocent... in fact..... I can't remember the last time I read a story about someone LEGALLY carrying who accidentally shot the "wrong person" in a self defense shoot.. and as messed up as this sounds.. MOST gun enthusiasts shoot FAR MORE frequently than LEO, and are likely MORE careful.. granted that is a broad generalization.. but still deserves some consideration... I think that sometimes because LEO are forced to "qualify" and we are not that they completely ignore the YEARS of range time... granted accidents can still happen and innocent people can still get hurt, but judging by the lack of reports of innocent people being hurt by legal carrying gun owners, it does not appear to be a viable concern...

 

also just to add.. the idea that I should have to "produce papers" on demand seems innocent enough.. until you multiply it out through daily life and realize how unreasonable and ridiculous it really is.. I can't imagine walking down the street with a holstered gun, and being harassed as if I broke the law.. if it were a situation where I was stopped 2 or 3 times in one day to produce my documentation simply on the grounds of carrying a firearm I would be seriously annoyed.. the need to produce licensing should be the same as motor vehicle.. you are driving.. as the law allows.. you are carrying a gun.. as the law allows.. you speed.. and the officer will pull you over and request licensing.. this is normal.. if I pulled my gun out.. or did something abnormal.. then yeah sure.. stop me and request my licensing.. but the notion that ANYONE open carrying should be repeatedly harassed is silly..

 

in regards to guns coming here from free states being used in crimes? I am sure guns float all over the country.. but that has NOTHING to do with legal lawful carry.. like literally nothing.. the fact that a gun used in NJ crime came from states with looser gun control laws says what about legal carry? I think that we (the gun community) will ALL agree that it is important to take measures to NOT allow some lunatic or criminal to legally buy a gun.. I will not agree under any circumstances that are insane level of gun control actually prevents crime in any way... please.. explain to me how the following aspects of NJ law reduce actual illegal crime...

 

* Duplicating the "background check" both when initially obtaining my FID card AND at point of purchase?

* Disallowing me to buy more than 1 handgun a month?

* Disallowing me to use both a flash hider AND pistol grip on my semiautomatic rifle?

* Disallowing me to use a pistol grip on my semi-automatic shotgun?

* Requiring me to show my "FIREARMS PURCHASER CARD" to buy AMMUNITION?

 

 

we have as a state gone through an insane amount of effort to establish laws that have NO bearing on keeping guns out of criminals hands.. maybe if we just got rid of all the ridiculous legislation and came up with some good solid fundamentals.. some laws that streamlined things.. I am not saying just anyone should be able to walk into ace hardware and walk out with a gun 5 minutes later in the same manner you would buy a box of nails.. but I am saying if at 33 years old.. with no criminal background.. not even a traffic infraction in over a decade.. with years of range time in.. wants to carry a gun LEGALLY.. I SHOULD have that option.. I carry a gun.. in fact I carry a gun in PA pretty frequently.. never even came close to using it.. but it is nice to know it is there should the need arise, and it drives me NUTS that PA a state I do NOT live in.. respects that right.. yet NJ barely trusts me to drive ammunition to and from the range....

[Sam02S2K 3]

Don't flatter yourself. As a civilian member of Law Enforcement in NJ I find it personally insulting when someone in a sworn capacity, especially some 25yo with no experience, starts spouting BS about how he's better than the citizens he's supposed to be serving. You are the cop that gives all Law Enforcement Professionals a bad name in this state and I highly recommend you change your attitude or find a different career.

 

When did he say he was better than anyone? Your not "spouting BS" reccommending him to change his attitude or find a different career?

[Jon 264]

Never said I was better than anyone..

 

Every post you've made in this thread says otherwise.

[EngineerJet 191]

Ok.. so here it goes.. I am not saying that shootings are going to rise dramatically and stay there.. All I am saying is that withing the first weeks there would be a dramatic rise in the amount of gun calls.. I am sure it would slow down but in the beginning you will get EVERY person just doing it to "do it".. It's simple mathematics.. You raise the amount of guns into a community there is bound to be a rise in gun calls.. So I am not saying that there is going to be some huge amount of killings every day but at the beginning yes there will be a lot of gun calls which I am sure would slow down after a few weeks..

 

As for the comment about other states not having a lot of shootings.. You are talking about other states, not NJ.. Other states might not have killings everyday.. Fine.. But how long have they had carry laws?? Or how long have their gun laws been almost non existent? As stated before, NJ has NEVER been a gun state.. They slap on absurd restrictions and some towns screw guys trying to get permits than is imaginable.. So growing up in a state this is ALL some of us know.. And some people will never even touch a gun in their lives.. So you are right.. Down the road if NJ opened the gun laws like other states I am sure it would be fine.. But before that you will get a lot of shootings.. And I am not saying its going to be good guys like the guys on here.. A lot of scum will have easier access to the guns like the guy that shot the clerk at the liquor store.. But you will have the occasion where a civilian shoots someone because they felt threatened and it might turn out that the guy they shot was unarmed or just not in the right state of mind.. So whatever the case is there would be a rise in gun calls..

 

And the member that posted about my age requirements.. Again it goes back to being a cop.. You know how many kids 18,19,20,21,22,23... that I have had to lock up because they just were not grown up enough to realize what they were doing was the most retarded thing they could do.. Given that there are older guys out there who make the same mistakes but the majority are younger.. So again as a cop I feel there should be a age requirement.. I said 23-25 if it was my way not having anything to do with legal.. hypothetically is all I was saying...

 

As for the guy who went out of his way to look up my old iroc.. Thanks for taking the time lol.. Didn't know I meant that much to you.. But in defense.. I am not the A-hole cop that writes you a ticket for something I have.. As many of you stated I am also a civilian.. I am not the type of guy that is going to do one thing over here and then issue you the same thing over there.. If I do it then I don't write for it.. that's my philosophy.. But just for your knowing.. the car has been sold..

 

Now onto my test... First let me start of by saying that I do not know all the rules and regulations regarding restrictions on weapons.. We are not trained to know the exact restrictions on all weapons.. Most of our encounters with guys with guns is going to be criminal.. Not me stopping you and inspecting all your firearms.. With that:

 

1. If I see you are carrying concealed you should present your carry card but if you do not have one I am sure there is a way of looking it up.. IF neither is available then you would have an issue.. As stated before, how do I know if you have a permit to carry or are just some guy who decided to walk out with a gun on your hip.. If you can provide no documentation and there is no way of looking it up I would assume you would be detained until such documentation is available.. But on such a call a supervisor would always be notified..

 

2. In NJ mag capacity is 15

 

3. Must give an example on the hollow points.. If I recall correctly they are illegal unless used in proper manner.. but if a criminal walks in to rob a store and has hollow points I believe there is a charge for it

 

4. If I recall correctly you can have a collapsible on a pump shotgun.. But can honestly say that I probably wouldn't have been able to answer that before last week..

 

But Dr. I hope you realize that I never claimed to KNOW all the laws.. I clearly stated that already..No one knows EVERY part of EVERY law.. Have you ever picked up a 2C book?? It is impossible to know every part of it.. Even Judges have to look things up once in a while to make sure they are accurate in their rulings.. But again when am I going to be charging someone for an illegal weapon unless they are caught in a criminal act?? I am not going to walk up to your door and start asking if you have firearms and inspect them.. I am a street cop.. So when/if I run into this chances are its not going to be on a range guy like yourself.. It's going to be on a guy who just robbed the liquor store..

 

But once again I think this topic is done.. I have my views on things and you have your views.. I joined this site in hopes of learning some new things and maybe meeting some new guys that were into shooting.. But as always politics got involved and ruined it all.. Should have known better then to even start on such a topic here.. Just know that I am with most of yous on easing up the laws.. But feel that some restrictions are necessary.. Just figured that like mature people you would respect that someone has an opinion and view other then yours.. That there would be some common ground... But it is what it is I guess..

 

Also if you want facts.. Check where the majority of the guns that kill cops, innocent bystanders, etc come from.. Those free states that you want NJ to be like.. That's where the guns come from.. Studies have shown that a large percentage of guns come from states that lack gun control laws.. Just saying.. You guys wanted facts..

 

I'll try to be as civil and sincere as possible.

 

People have this notion that if CCW were made legal, everyone would run to get it. Clearly that is not that case with all the other states as the % of people who actually exercise that right are few. In addition since criminals would very unlikely apply, the only people left who may concern you would be wreckless people who apply for a permit. Unfortunately the speculation of recklessness in my opinion should not be justifiable reason to deny this right. Think of it like this. If tomorrow a certain street racing tire previously banned was now made legal, would everyone run out to buy them? Would you? Obviously not, since only people who care enough and are in the "racing scene" would even be aware to care. The same goes with guns. The only people who would go get one are the ones who care enough to go through the entire process and submitting themselves to further scrutiny and checks into their lives to be issued a permit.

 

You also state it's simple mathematics, well in that case I invite you to look at the basic math. A criminal currently would more likely attack someone in jersey than in a state where ccw were legal (ceteris paribus). In my experience an overwhelming amount of cops I encounter here and in real life do not agree with your views in this matter, so mathematically you are in the minority. Every single civilian here has virtually 0% of self defense if put in a situation that would call for it. How's that for math we can live with?

 

I'd venture to say most people on this board are not gun nuts, but liberty nuts. The litmus test I personally use for my views are the following. Do my views hinder someone else's freedom and liberty? Back in the AZ shooting, the father of the little girl who was shot is the true american we should all aspire to be, he stated that if his daughters death was the price we had to pay to live in a free country then so be it. He truly understood we cant use something like presumed safety to justify curtailing our freedoms.

 

I understand you have a hard job and I don't fault you for that. But for one moment, consider the possibility that your views, although are well intentioned, if implemented your way would hinder liberty? Although I am not calling you a tyrant, I leave you with this.

 

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

 

-C S Lewis

[M4BGRINGO 139]

I have a friend who is on the job that shoots less in one year than I do in a 2 hour session at the range. He actually wants to go with me so he can get some practice time in. Just how often do the LEO's have to shoot? Is it part of their job or do they just need to "qualify" and that is it?

[Dr. KGM 1]

Thank you officer u past the test but you would be surprised at how many leo cannot pass this same test and would arrest someone who had a magazine that can hold 15 rounds. My point is leo should have knowledge of firearm laws so law abiding citizens would not get falsely arrested. For example i think u mentioned that a pump shot gun with a folding stock is legal but u would not have known that a week ago?? So false arrests can occur. Let me tell u that if people in my profession made those type of

mistakes their would be dead patient everyday in every medical setting. I feel that the leo community should have a license that gets renewed every 2 years just like every other profession and requires continuing education. Being a leo is a tough job i know i am forensic examiner and do most of my work with the US dept of justice; however it is scary how an innocent person can get arrested for lack of basic firearm knowledge. NJ firearm laws are so convoluted that the leo that is supposed to enforce them are confused many times!!! But no disrespect to u officer u are entitled to ur opinions. I highly respect that u r a fellow forum member and gun enthusiast please do not let politics get in the way friendship and a common interest, and remember all of us r law abiding on this topic we want to follow the law, even leo must follow the law or they can have problems. Thank god we live in this country. God Bless the USA!!!!

[FearThisInc 35]

Thank you officer u past the test but you would be surprised at how many leo cannot pass this same test and would arrest someone who had a magazine that can hold 15 rounds. My point is leo should have knowledge of firearm laws so law abiding citizens would not get falsely arrested. For example i think u mentioned that a pump shot gun with a folding stock is legal but u would not have known that a week ago?? So false arrests can occur. Let me tell u that if people in my profession made those type of

mistakes their would be dead patient everyday in every medical setting. I feel that the leo community should have a license that gets renewed every 2 years just like every other profession and requires continuing education. Being a leo is a tough job i know i am forensic examiner and do most of my work with the US dept of justice; however it is scary how an innocent person can get arrested for lack of basic firearm knowledge. NJ firearm laws are so convoluted that the leo that is supposed to enforce them are confused many times!!! But no disrespect to u officer u are entitled to ur opinions. I highly respect that u r a fellow forum member and gun enthusiast please do not let politics get in the way friendship and a common interest, and remember all of us r law abiding on this topic we want to follow the law, even leo must follow the law or they can have problems. Thank god we live in this country. God Bless the USA!!!!

 

I am not saying that every guy on the job knows everything about gun laws and I am sure there may be some circumstances where guys get locked up for something that was legal.. It does happen.. But I can assure you that if my cuffs go on someone I know that it is right to do so.. If I dont know I ask.. The only stupid question is the one that isnt asked.. So if I am unsure of something I ask someone that knows.. So if you have a rifle that I suspect something is not legal on it i will not just lock you up and find out later.. I will ask someone who has the information to determine if something is illegal or not..

[SpecialK 193]

How do I say I KNOW better..

 

"I disagree with carrying a weapon as a civilian." <---your words followed up that you came to this conclusion because you are a cop.

 

We agree with carrying weapons as a civilian as that is one of the things that makes this Country so great. I carried a pistol on my side everyday in Colorado and yes that included to my classes at Colorado State University.

 

 

I just follow the laws that I am told to follow.. Laws are there for the great good..

 

how about another pop quiz!? I recently got my U.S. citizenship and I had to make sure I could answer the questions to the civics test. Here is one of the questions "What is the supreme law of the land?"

.

.

.

.

 

 

 

 

 

yeah if you guess Supreme Court you are dead wrong. It would be the U.S. Constitution, so how are you upholding laws again?

 

 

 

I have a view on things just like everyone else.. I am not saying your view is right or wrong.. Its a view and opinion on things..

 

I'll flat out say that your views are very very wrong.

 

I have biased views being that I am a cop..

 

this turns my stomach and makes my heart ache.

 

You have biased views in that you are pro gun..

 

You are actually wrong on this I am pro Rights, not pro gun. I support all of our Rights equally.

 

So our views are different..

 

are you seriously saying that to be a cop you have to be against guns? Do you seriously believe this? Get a psych-eval immediately.

 

 

Not much different then say 2 peoples view on abortion.. There is no right and wrong.. You feel one way and I feel another.. I am not disrespecting anyone..

 

once again you are wrong, very very wrong. Disrespecting my Rights is not something we can agree to disagree about.

 

 

 

I am one of the easiest going cops out there..

 

finally something we can agree on, you are very easy going and laxidasiy when it comes to Americans Rights.

 

I am not some hard a$$ that gets off on having a badge.. And please don't question my honor or respect.. You don't know me.. And you can know me based off how I felt on one situation..

 

Your words and thoughts are who you are, without them your body is just a useless shell. I can and will question your honor and judge you on your lack of respect. Any man who puts himself ahead of The People has no honor and will never have my respect.

 

 

 

As for your comment about living near a liquor store where a robbery occurred.. What would have changed should you have had a gun?? What would have changed if the cashier had a gun on his hip?? Probably nothing.. Because by the time the cashier realized what was going on he would have been shot..

 

do I really need to instruct an officer of the law of how to manipulate a firearm to secure ones safety? Seriously? Fcuking seriously? you are arguing that a gun on your hips cannot possibly help you? Then why the hell do you carry one!!!!!!??????????

 

You know what would have changed, he would have at least had a chance.

 

oh and it was never deemed a robbery, so your guess is as good as mine, gangs, drugs, the dude fucked the other dudes girl. The bottom line is that there is a murderer living in my area that is armed and I am not once I leave my house. All I want is a chance, I don't need a guarantee.

 

 

I used to many quote boxes, so this has got to be two parts. Continued below.

[SpecialK 193]

And what's with this people like you??? I do plenty to help keep people safe.. My presence is enough sometimes to diffuse a situation.. I have rolled with my fair share.. I have chased down my fair share..

 

I commend you on the one part of your JOB that you actually do right.

 

Too many people out there think that the world would be a better place if there was no law.. Laws were put into place to help the people for the greater good..

 

You probably think I am going to point out that the U.S. Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land again. Well you are right. I love Laws. I love it even more when those charged with enforcing them follow the laws!

 

 

 

I can't stand when people think the world would be so great if there were no cops, no government..

 

I never called for no government. I only call for corrupt government to be removed.

 

We would all be walking around with our guns on our hip and do as we please.. But without the government what would happen to this world.. Chaos.. This world would be free reign for criminals.. People would be killed, robbed, raped, beaten, etc on a regular basis.. After all who are you going to call??

 

Ghostbusters?

 

 

 

 

 

But I understand we have rights as human beings..

 

oh so you understand that we have rights, so you purposely choose to step on them.

 

If you don't like the way NJ is you can always move to a more "free" state.. If you like the idea of carrying a gun around in the open you have plenty of states that will allow it..

 

I so miss living in America. If moving was an option I would be gone tomorrow.

 

It just so happens that NJ is not one of them.. Maybe one day down the road things will be different.. But at this point in time this is the way it is..

 

One day it will be different. I refuse to be a subject to the NJ Government.

[KpdPipes 388]

As I stated.. I am not totally against the idea of civilian carry.. I just think it should be more then a few days of classes.. There should be more extensive training and should have restrictions.. Age limits.. etc.. If regulated civilian carry can work.. But not a "ok take these 2 classes, get a permit, and have fun.." In my "opinion" I would allow civilian carry under such regulations:

 

1. Minimum age of 23-25

2. Carry restricted in certain places.. Courts, schools, bars, gambling facilities, etc

3. Restrict alcohol consumption while carrying..

4. Extra punishment for those caught carrying while committing another crime such as having CDS on their persons

5. Subject to stop by an authority and must show, upon request, permit to carry

6. Limit on number of rounds permitted to be carried on a person

7. Minimum 4 weeks of classes/training..

8. Extensive background check which must be conducted on a yearly basis to ensure no changes..

9. If caught committing a crime in which gun was utilized and found guilty permanently restricted from getting carry permit in future..

 

These are just some regulations that I feel would make open carry more secure.. Again this is my opinion on the matter..

 

 

 

Also I am not saying that everyone on here wants to abolish law enforcement.. I was just reaching out to one extreme side.. Most people fall in the middle somewhere.. The process is what it is.. You are right.. A lot of law abiding citizens have to jump through hoops to get a permit.. but this just helps weed out SOME of the guys that would get guns and commit crimes with them.. As the old saying goes.. a criminal will get what they want no matter what.. if they want a gun they will find a way to get one.. but the state has the process to help deter criminals from getting guns and try to make it harder for them to get them.. unfortunately that means that law abiding civilians also have trouble getting them..

 

Also its not a Us vs Them attitude that I have.. When I say I have a biased opinion it is because I look at the situation strictly as a cop.. not as a civilian or a civilian carrying.. It is no a Us vs Them.. More of "i want to go home at the end of the day" type of attitude.. Call it what you want but you will always see it something from your side of the fence.. Its just the way people are.. A guy who smokes weed all the time is going to feel greatly that it should be legal and allowed.. While others will still be against it.. We see things from our own perspective and that is what makes us human.. We have our own opinions on matters.. And perhaps you are right.. Maybe it is just that I have spent all my life in NJ and it was not until I got on the job that I began dealing with guns that I have the attitude that I have.. And maybe spending time with guys like those on the forum will open my mind more.. Time will tell.. But don't think I am against anyone in particular or putting down anything.. I am open to many things.. But I guess when you are used to things being a certain way change isnt always easy to process..

 

Dude..one cop to another..SHUT UP..you're making yourself look like a Moron. You want to play Anti-gun..then go somewhere else. There isnt a GODDAMN thing in 2C:39 that has EVER prevented a crime from happening, nd a whole lot that have CAUSED crimes, and allowed people in this state to be victims. 15 months left, and it's guys like YOU frankly that make me Really happy to be retiring next year.

[KpdPipes 388]

But once again I think this topic is done.. I have my views on things and you have your views.. I joined this site in hopes of learning some new things and maybe meeting some new guys that were into shooting.. But as always politics got involved and ruined it all.. Should have known better then to even start on such a topic here.. Just know that I am with most of yous on easing up the laws.. But feel that some restrictions are necessary.. Just figured that like mature people you would respect that someone has an opinion and view other then yours.. That there would be some common ground... But it is what it is I guess..

 

Also if you want facts.. Check where the majority of the guns that kill cops, innocent bystanders, etc come from.. Those free states that you want NJ to be like.. That's where the guns come from.. Studies have shown that a large percentage of guns come from states that lack gun control laws.. Just saying.. You guys wanted facts..

 

It isnt Politics that runied it Skippy..it's Your Attitude. Thanks once again for making life tougher for those of us who actually Believe in the damned Constitution.

[matt6669 71]

There really is no need for another post after the two above me.

 

Thank you KPD

[djg0770 481]

Not much to say after the real LEO told the fake LEO to STFU.

[kenw 293]

There really is no need for another post after the two above me.

 

Thank you KPD

And yet, here's your post.

[FearThisInc 35]

Dude..one cop to another..SHUT UP..you're making yourself look like a Moron. You want to play Anti-gun..then go somewhere else. There isnt a GODDAMN thing in 2C:39 that has EVER prevented a crime from happening, nd a whole lot that have CAUSED crimes, and allowed people in this state to be victims. 15 months left, and it's guys like YOU frankly that make me Really happy to be retiring next year.

 

 

So laws don't prevent people at all from committing a crime?? How could you even say that.. Laws prevent crime everyday.. Because people know if they break the law there is a price that will be paid.. So talk all you want about how they don't prevent crime when in fact they do.. I am not saying that laws stop EVERY crime from happening.. But they do stop some.. example.. Two guys get into an argument.. One guy slept with the others wife/girl.. The guy can easily kill the second guy.. Why doesn't he?? Because the law says that if he does he will go to jail.. So he doesn't kill the guy.. While the same scenario can end differently how many times does it end with nothing happening? How many jobs where guys say they would have done this or that but because they know they will get locked up for it they chose not to.. Because they know the law says they cannot do it.. So by saying laws don't stop crime is kinda of absurd.. Glad I look like a moron for having a view on a situation.. I can feel however I want on any given situation.. You don't have to like it or agree with it.. While you may want zero control over guns I feel that some control is necessary..

[tony357 386]

^^^^^^^

[Maksim 1,504]

[Dan 177]

So laws don't prevent people at all from committing a crime?? How could you even say that.. Laws prevent crime everyday.. Because people know if they break the law there is a price that will be paid.. So talk all you want about how they don't prevent crime when in fact they do.. I am not saying that laws stop EVERY crime from happening.. But they do stop some.. example.. Two guys get into an argument.. One guy slept with the others wife/girl.. The guy can easily kill the second guy.. Why doesn't he?? Because the law says that if he does he will go to jail.. So he doesn't kill the guy.. While the same scenario can end differently how many times does it end with nothing happening? How many jobs where guys say they would have done this or that but because they know they will get locked up for it they chose not to.. Because they know the law says they cannot do it.. So by saying laws don't stop crime is kinda of absurd.. Glad I look like a moron for having a view on a situation.. I can feel however I want on any given situation.. You don't have to like it or agree with it.. While you may want zero control over guns I feel that some control is necessary..

 

Square peg, round hole. Your logic is flawed.

 

Now compare the laws ...

 

a) Murder

b) Me (law abiding citizen) walking down the street with a pistol in a holster going to the store. Keep in mind that 2A states "right to keep and bear arms".... not to mention an human right to self defense.

 

Nobody is arguing that laws CAN and DO prevent crimes. We in this case are speaking of gun laws in NJ. 99% of them are solutions to problems that don't exist, as in they prevent b) from ever occuring, not a). Someone who is willing to commit murder will not stop to think... "Gee am I breaking any NJ gun laws here".

 

Hey, i'm willing to meet you halfway. Make the laws tough on people who use guns during the commission of violent crimes. I'm all for that... Someone murders with a gun, attempts to murder with a gun, unjustifiably shoots someone, etc, I'm all for being tough. This way the REAL criminals will be deterred and punished from/if using a gun during the commission of a crime, instead of law abiding and responsible people.

[FearThisInc 35]

Square peg, round hole. Your logic is flawed.

 

Now compare the laws ...

 

a) Murder

b) Me (law abiding citizen) walking down the street with a pistol in a holster going to the store. Keep in mind that 2A states "right to keep and bear arms".... not to mention an human right to self defense.

 

Nobody is arguing that laws CAN and DO prevent crimes. We in this case are speaking of gun laws in NJ. 99% of them are solutions to problems that don't exist, as in they prevent b) from ever occuring, not a). Someone who is willing to commit murder will not stop to think... "Gee am I breaking any NJ gun laws here".

 

Hey, i'm willing to meet you halfway. Make the laws tough on people who use guns during the commission of violent crimes. I'm all for that... Someone murders with a gun, attempts to murder with a gun, unjustifiably shoots someone, etc, I'm all for being tough. This way the REAL criminals will be deterred and punished from/if using a gun during the commission of a crime, instead of law abiding and responsible people.

 

I understand your view but I think there has to be more then just walking into a store with a d.l. and walking out with a gun on your hip.. I know that some laws are ridiculous.. Like why cant you have a bayonet lug on a rifle or collapsible stock.. Or the B.S. of having guys D%^ked around for 6 months waiting for a permit.. I agree that many of the gun laws should be thrown out.. But there has to be some regulation on it.. Thats all I am saying..

[vladtepes 1,060]

So laws don't prevent people at all from committing a crime?? How could you even say that.. Laws prevent crime everyday..

 

 

how is that loser of a drug war going for you?

 

the ONLY crime prevented by law are those that are never committed by honest men.. the existence of law is largely to punish.. don't kid yourself into thinking ANYTHING is preventing crime, while maybe a scared little kid doesn't steal a candy bar out of fear of prosecution.. the BIG TIME laws do NOTHING to curb crime.. murder.. prostitution.. drug dealing... people who go down this road made a choice a long time ago.. they do not fear the law or its consequences...

 

look at carry concealed weapons laws... they are the ideal example..

 

last time I checked there were not a lot of average guys with clean records and legally owned guns arrested for carrying illegally in NJ..

 

it is typically "joe smith" resident of "crime filled city" charged with "weapons and drugs charges"... if I am going to throw out a guess here I am going to guess that he doesn't have a FID card and a bunch of receipts for his guns..

 

so who is really punished? the lawless who you SHOULD fear? fugg NO those assholes are walking around armed to the teeth.. all day long...

it is instead the average HONEST citizen who does not carry because he values his clean record..

 

 

saw what is the result of this law..

me: clean record.. properly trained firearms operator... pretty ok shot to.. far better than some of my LEO friends.. is left with a folding knife..

average Newark thug: armed with god only knows what gun.. loaded with god only knows what ammunition.. stolen from who knows.. already used to kill so and so..

 

JUST USE SOME LOGIC... hell I am not even asking you to think outside the box here..

[Babaganoosh 192]

No matter what ANYONES opinion is...the fact of the matter is that open carry is legal is Philadelphia. Is there some conditions? Yes, but the bottom line is it is legal.

[Vlad G 345]

I understand your view but I think there has to be more then just walking into a store with a d.l. and walking out with a gun on your hip.. I know that some laws are ridiculous.. Like why cant you have a bayonet lug on a rifle or collapsible stock.. Or the B.S. of having guys D%^ked around for 6 months waiting for a permit.. I agree that many of the gun laws should be thrown out.. But there has to be some regulation on it.. Thats all I am saying..

 

Let me re write that for you. What if I said:

 

In understand your view I think there has to be more just walking into a store with your d.l. and walk out with a book in your hand.. I know that some laws are ridiculous .. Like why can you have a book with hard covers or a build in bookmark.. Or the B.S. of having guys D%^ked around for 6 month waiting for a permit to buy a book .. I agree that many of the freedom of speach laws should be thrown out .. But there has to be some regulation on it .. Thats all I am saying..

 

First amendment, second amendment, they are right next to each other. Far more people have been killed at the behest of some idiot spouting an ideology that said that guy over there has the wrong skin color, or the wrong shape nose or he prays to the wrong clay idol. Far more people have been enslaved because some charismatic asshole decided he has a new vision about how is going to make paradise on earth or how he is going to elevate the humans to a new state. Gun, knives, bombs, fist are the tools with which you end a life if you are a criminal, but the most dangerous weapon is an idea, a thought, a perverted new philosophy that turns people one each other. Yes I can walk to B&N and buy a copy of Hitlers Mein Kumpf, or a copy of the Communist Manifesto, or a copy of some holy book or another, or even the ravings of suicide cult leaders without a permit. I can buy a book that details to me down to the smallest formulas how to make a nuclear bomb or how to make meth in my bathtub. Those are the dangerous items, ideas. Not tools, people have been killing each other just friking fine with blunt or sharp objects and that has been the rule of the strong against the weak until the weak got a weapon that made then equal and behold .. immediately after that democracy was born around the world.

 

You wouldn't advocate banning books regardless of content, so why advocate restricting access to the ONE tool that makes the weak able to defend themselves on equal terms against the strong and ruthless?

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Thank you officer u past the test but you would be surprised at how many leo cannot pass this same test and would arrest someone who had a magazine that can hold 15 rounds. My point is leo should have knowledge of firearm laws so law abiding citizens would not get falsely arrested. For example i think u mentioned that a pump shot gun with a folding stock is legal but u would not have known that a week ago?? So false arrests can occur. Let me tell u that if people in my profession made those type of

mistakes their would be dead patient everyday in every medical setting. I feel that the leo community should have a license that gets renewed every 2 years just like every other profession and requires continuing education. Being a leo is a tough job i know i am forensic examiner and do most of my work with the US dept of justice; however it is scary how an innocent person can get arrested for lack of basic firearm knowledge. NJ firearm laws are so convoluted that the leo that is supposed to enforce them are confused many times!!! But no disrespect to u officer u are entitled to ur opinions. I highly respect that u r a fellow forum member and gun enthusiast please do not let politics get in the way friendship and a common interest, and remember all of us r law abiding on this topic we want to follow the law, even leo must follow the law or they can have problems. Thank god we live in this country. God Bless the USA!!!!

 

 

Did you really go to college? Actually did some medical school? You type as if you are a teenager. Please, act your age. I don't recall seeing ur in any dictionaries buddy, it is your. I won't bother to pick-apart the rest of your typing above, I'd rather go walk my dog.

[SpecialK 193]

I understand your view but I think there has to be more then just walking into a store with a d.l. and walking out with a gun on your hip.. I know that some laws are ridiculous.. Like why cant you have a bayonet lug on a rifle or collapsible stock.. Or the B.S. of having guys D%^ked around for 6 months waiting for a permit.. I agree that many of the gun laws should be thrown out.. But there has to be some regulation on it.. Thats all I am saying..

 

Your train of thought is flawed. It is also insulting to the general populace. I hear this argument all the time. There has to be some sort of regulation on firearm, because people are idiots. If the subjects of NJ are that fcuking stupid I want to start using my own money to buy guns and hand them out, so they can just start killing each other, because this is truly a state full of scum then. They wouldn't though is the thing. Coming from a "free state" I saw first hand that people are good and that the laws against shooting someone is enough to stop someone, there is no need to take away the ability to do so.

 

Regulating and restricting firearms is the equivalent to muzzling a person or cutting out their tongue so they can't have the opportunity to say anything illegal.

[Babaganoosh 192]

Did you really go to college? Actually did some medical school? You type as if you are a teenager. Please, act your age. I don't recall seeing ur in any dictionaries buddy, it is your. I won't bother to pick-apart the rest of your typing above, I'd rather go walk my dog.

 

 

Actually it's you're but hey, nobody is grading papers here. I hate doing it but if you are going to pick apart someone's grammar or spelling, at least do it correctly. Other than that, you are correct, he doesn't type like any DR I know.

 

Know what else kinda bothers me? That the word "ain't" is now an acceptable word.

[djg0770 481]

That the word "ain't" is now an acceptable word.

 

The above quotation is not a sentence.

 

UR, being a text abbreviation, is in common use for all variations of the homophones of you're, including your.

[SpecialK 193]

[JackDaWack 2,895]

:thsmiley_deadhorse: Grammar Police... we have enough Police presence in here. :thsmiley_deadhorse:

 

 

 

 

[Babaganoosh 192]

The above quotation is not a sentence.

 

UR, being a text abbreviation, is in common use for all variations of the homophones of you're, including your.

 

If you read the post he is talking about in this case the ur he is referring to should be you're not your