Bravo Company

[MidwestPX 172]

Yes, run anything heavier than an H buffer and you're asking for a short stroke with crap ammo.

Agreed. H2 and H3 buffers are band-aid fixes to gas port erosion and I never recommend them right off the bat. Even my suppressed SBR works fine with a carbine or H buffer.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Yes, you will. You'll get slightly more ABSOLUTE velocity, and the longer barrel will help the round CARRY THAT VELOCITY further. Fragmentation is important, remember.

 

So you agree, you're not getting a meaningful increase then?

[Zell959 40]

So you agree, you're not getting a meaningful increase then?

 

In fairness, it's probably more accurate to categorize the difference as not that meaningful for most users. The two loads he mentioned (M193 & M855) are commonly used and their terminal ballistics often become about as effective as a standard .22lr bullet when fragmentation doesn't occur. The velocity difference can ultimately mean the difference between effective & ineffective on soft targets beyond a certain distance. That said, I would agree that this really doesn't matter for the overwhelming majority of civilian users as it has no impact on the bullets ability to pierce paper or be effective at realistic self-defense ranges. Users for whom this would be a concern probably don't have the liberty of picking their weapon system in the first place.

[Vlad G 345]

So you agree, you're not getting a meaningful increase then?

 

The problem with that logic is that there is no meaningful difference between 20 and 18, 18 and 16, 16 and 14, 14 and 12, 12 and 10, 10 and 8, 8 and 6, 6 and 4, 4 and nothing.

 

There is however a significant difference between 20 and nothing. In my opinion, you are already giving up quite a bit before you get to 16, giving up more for a 1.5" less length becomes counterproductive at some point. It is for you to decide where that point is, for me is at 16".

[intercooler 41]

So far my BCM 14.5" middy with a perm attached PWS comp has eaten plenty of Silver Bear, Golden Bear, and LCM855. No problems reported as of yet. Have an average of 200 of each down the pipe so far. Using a PSA carbine buffer.

mine too. i have the bhf 14.5 with a battlecomp 1.5. it shoots whatever i put thru it flawlessly....

[MarkWVU02 47]

In fairness, it's probably more accurate to categorize the difference as not that meaningful for most users. The two loads he mentioned (M193 & M855) are commonly used and their terminal ballistics often become about as effective as a standard .22lr bullet when fragmentation doesn't occur. The velocity difference can ultimately mean the difference between effective & ineffective on soft targets beyond a certain distance. That said, I would agree that this really doesn't matter for the overwhelming majority of civilian users as it has no impact on the bullets ability to pierce paper or be effective at realistic self-defense ranges. Users for whom this would be a concern probably don't have the liberty of picking their weapon system in the first place.

 

So in all honesty...I'm building this mostly for the range...I have my Mossy for HD with the XD for back-up...This would be mostly for the range and just the simple fact that I want an AR (haha)...is there really going to be that much of a difference between the middy and carbine for the casual user like me....just wondering because I was ready to order the 16" carbine and now you have all have me second guessing...to be honest I just like the way the carbine looks...I know many like the middy better

[Dan 177]

You really can't go wrong with any reputable quality build, carbine/middy/16-20" barrel, go for it. If you are casually shooting at 200-400 yards at the range, any legal barrel length will be more than adequate. Period.

 

Just when you ask on a forum like this, you will get 10 different philosophies from 10 different people. Take what you will of it all as part of your decision making process. Good luck!

[MarkWVU02 47]

You really can't go wrong with any reputable quality build, carbine/middy/16-20" barrel, go for it. If you are casually shooting at 200-400 yards at the range, any legal barrel length will be more than adequate. Period.

 

Just when you ask on a forum like this, you will get 10 different philosophies from 10 different people. Take what you will of it all as part of your decision making process. Good luck!

 

Would love to shoot out to 200-400 yards...longest I've probably shot was 25 yards though haha...yeah normally I ask questions on these forums and all it does is confuse me more...in the end I usually just go with what I want hence the XD and Mossy 590...most people I know told me to get a glock and a remmy 870...for the amount I'm going to be shooting I don't think I'll ever wear the thing out and recoil on the AR was nothing compared to the shotty so I'm not too concerned with that

[DevsAdvocate 112]

In fairness, it's probably more accurate to categorize the difference as not that meaningful for most users. The two loads he mentioned (M193 & M855) are commonly used and their terminal ballistics often become about as effective as a standard .22lr bullet when fragmentation doesn't occur. The velocity difference can ultimately mean the difference between effective & ineffective on soft targets beyond a certain distance. That said, I would agree that this really doesn't matter for the overwhelming majority of civilian users as it has no impact on the bullets ability to pierce paper or be effective at realistic self-defense ranges. Users for whom this would be a concern probably don't have the liberty of picking their weapon system in the first place.

 

Fragmentation is not the be all end all of the 5.56mm cartridge. While it's nice to have an energy transfer directly into a target, it's nothing without accurate shot placement. The other thing to consider here is you're average combat distance (Home Defense, suburban street fighting, etc.) is that almost 75% of it occurs below 150 yards.

 

That being said: most US soldiers love their M4A1 carbines and would take them over the M16 any day. While the 5.56mm has limitations at range, it's ultimately not designed to be used in that capacity. That's where the 7.62 calibers come into play.

 

So for most users... that 1.5" isn't really meaningful for a weapon designated as a carbine. The 14.5" long barrel is adequate for our soldiers, it will work out fine for your average civilian.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Would love to shoot out to 200-400 yards...longest I've probably shot was 25 yards though haha...yeah normally I ask questions on these forums and all it does is confuse me more...in the end I usually just go with what I want hence the XD and Mossy 590...most people I know told me to get a glock and a remmy 870...for the amount I'm going to be shooting I don't think I'll ever wear the thing out and recoil on the AR was nothing compared to the shotty so I'm not too concerned with that

 

What do you intend to use it for? Hunting? HD? Competition?

 

I only suggest the 14.5" because it's the smallest rifle you can legally get in this state, and the brake comes from BCM already permanently attached. It'll save you the headache later to get that done.

 

Once you get it and handle it, you'll be in love.

[MarkWVU02 47]

What do you intend to use it for? Hunting? HD? Competition?

 

I only suggest the 14.5" because it's the smallest rifle you can legally get in this state, and the brake comes from BCM already permanently attached. It'll save you the headache later to get that done.

 

Once you get it and handle it, you'll be in love.

 

 

Wow man you're really selling me on this...intended purpose is some range time, possibly home defense although I do have the 12 gauge for that...I doubt it'll do any hunting...mostly it's just for fun...I've always liked the platform and I've been dying to build one since I heard you could build them...my problem with the 14.5" middy is the extra $110 you have to spend on the flash hider...in the greater scheme of things I guess it's not a lot but I have a perfectly good YHM Phantom brake sitting on my desk right now (long story) so I feel like it's wasting money on something I have that could be better spent on other parts of the rifle...$110 almost buys a BCG or a build kit from PSA...inevitably it's half cheapness and half indecisiveness...I want to take my time on one hand and then my ADHD kicks in and I just want to build it already...I've been floating this idea around for a while and I want to start moving on it

[Vlad G 345]

Something to consider is your size. If you are tall with long arms you might actually want a longer barrel to give you a bit more space to place your hands. Getting all crowded is not fun for me. If you have shorter arms that doesn't matter, but at over 6ft tall I want every inch of handguard I can get so I end up running a rifle length handguard on a 16" barrel. I admit that it somewhat biases me against 14.5 barrels, because I found that I also prefer to have my front sight mounted on the barrel in front of full length hand guard, and 16" is the shortest barrel that will do that. A 16" gun still looks like a toy in my hands.

[MarkWVU02 47]

Haha good advice. I'm only 5'9" with average arms for my height I suppose.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Wow man you're really selling me on this...intended purpose is some range time, possibly home defense although I do have the 12 gauge for that...I doubt it'll do any hunting...mostly it's just for fun...I've always liked the platform and I've been dying to build one since I heard you could build them...my problem with the 14.5" middy is the extra $110 you have to spend on the flash hider...in the greater scheme of things I guess it's not a lot but I have a perfectly good YHM Phantom brake sitting on my desk right now (long story) so I feel like it's wasting money on something I have that could be better spent on other parts of the rifle...$110 almost buys a BCG or a build kit from PSA...inevitably it's half cheapness and half indecisiveness...I want to take my time on one hand and then my ADHD kicks in and I just want to build it already...I've been floating this idea around for a while and I want to start moving on it

 

Sell the comp on the Marketplace here, and buy the BCM upper. They're pricey, but worth it... plus you know the saying: buy once, cry once. Make your first purchase count.

 

FYI, an AR-15 carbine with a 14.5" midlength barrel will also be shorter than your 12ga (if it has a regular stock on it).

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Something to consider is your size. If you are tall with long arms you might actually want a longer barrel to give you a bit more space to place your hands. Getting all crowded is not fun for me. If you have shorter arms that doesn't matter, but at over 6ft tall I want every inch of handguard I can get so I end up running a rifle length handguard on a 16" barrel. I admit that it somewhat biases me against 14.5 barrels, because I found that I also prefer to have my front sight mounted on the barrel in front of full length hand guard, and 16" is the shortest barrel that will do that. A 16" gun still looks like a toy in my hands.

 

He can buy a 14.5" AR-15 with 12" long handguards on it. I personally do not like the look (and prefer to have a standard FSB), but it's an option to try.

[MarkWVU02 47]

Okay so two more questions. Say I go with the 14.5 midlength...regular or lightweight barrel? What comp/brake do I out on it?

[MarkWVU02 47]

I just need to sign up for a paid membership so I can sell the brake. I also have a speedfeed stock for a mossy 590 I want to get rid of.

[Vlad G 345]

Okay so two more questions. Say I go with the 14.5 midlength...regular or lightweight barrel? What comp/brake do I out on it?

 

 

There is not a lot of difference in weight between regular and lightweight because they are the same profile up to the gas block and on a midlength the gas block is pretty far forward, so they are only different forward of the gas block which on a 14.5 it isn't much. I would go with regular so if you want/need you can add stuff there later.

 

Comp is up to you and what Bravo sells or is willing to mount. Personally I love the Nordic Components Tactical comp not because it is awesome (though it works pretty well) but because it is the same diameter as the barrel so once permanently attached you can take off gas blocks and such over it without hassles. It is also very cheap, but you would have to buy it yourself, ship it to Bravo, etc, and that is assuming Bravo wants to do it. Otherwise I'd say Battlecomp, JP, or FSC556.

[bbk 188]

BCM will NOT do custom modifications. I have contacted them to see if they would be willing, and they declined as they do everything in bulk.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Okay so two more questions. Say I go with the 14.5 midlength...regular or lightweight barrel? What comp/brake do I out on it?

 

I have a BC 1.5 on mine. It works well in deflecting blast, and looks awesome. Check google for pics of it on other people's rifles.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

BCM will NOT do custom modifications. I have contacted them to see if they would be willing, and they declined as they do everything in bulk.

 

They will perm pin a brake on a 14.5" upper.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Is it possible to send it without a brake and have a FFL pin it on? I know PK90 (and others) can do it.

[bbk 188]

They will perm pin a brake on a 14.5" upper.

 

I'm saying they won't do CUSTOM modifications. They have a series of brakes they will pin on the uppers-- but they only will pin those brakes as they do them in batches.

You can't send BCM a brake and request for it to be perm attached. You also couldn't request a brake that isn't already included in their options (even if they sell it separately).

[MarkWVU02 47]

Is it possible to send it without a brake and have a FFL pin it on? I know PK90 (and others) can do it.

 

I'm going to give them a call and find out. That may be an option too. Are the comps/brakes BCM sells that much better than the yhm phantom I already have?

[Caine 147]

Is it possible to send it without a brake and have a FFL pin it on? I know PK90 (and others) can do it.

I think if you select the "A2 Flash Hider (NFA Rules apply)" option, they'll send it without pinning it and then you can have PK90 perm attach the comp of your choice. Just a guess since that option doesn't say anything about a permanent install. Not sure if going this option means it has to be shipped directly to an FFL.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I'm going to give them a call and find out. That may be an option too. Are the comps/brakes BCM sells that much better than the yhm phantom I already have?

 

Yep. Most are very high end. BC 1.5, PWS, etc.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I'm saying they won't do CUSTOM modifications. They have a series of brakes they will pin on the uppers-- but they only will pin those brakes as they do them in batches.

You can't send BCM a brake and request for it to be perm attached. You also couldn't request a brake that isn't already included in their options (even if they sell it separately).

 

This is reasonable considering their business model. But if the purchaser wants, they can buy an upper with one of the selected brakes and it will ship in the next day or so. They do not pin brakes in batches, they do it on order.

[Dan 177]

Mark, just a FYI, this is the upper I have. First time they are in stock in a few months that I have seen. My link

 

12" DD rail handguard, 14.5" bbl with PWS brake perm attached. Its the t*ts. Lightweight, fast handling, hardly any barrel rise with rapid firing, flexibility of putting whatever optics/rail accessories, and is plenty for 400 yards and under. Great jack of all trades.

 

As other say, buy once , cry once. I wish I had in the past , instead took me 2 AR builds (20" and 16" bbl types) to finally arrive at this, and I'm 100% sold.