USPSA Match @ Shongum Saturday 06/04/11

[HuntingPaper 62]

Well considering that Maks who is doing the lions share of arguing here has a grand total of how many matches? How many major matches? And yet feels within his rights to educate people about how to make USPSA more fun, I can see how I may come across as a know it all.

 

Yes, we absolutely are way below your experience and skills. You shouldn't waste your time with amateurs and at the very few matches that we have done we look for having fun, we are not your competition.

[vjf915 456]

don't have mags for that but I can bring you a G19 with 7 mags... Or if you have 40 ammo a XD40 with 6 mags. Both with holsters and such...

Vic, if you want to come, I will bring my Smith 1911, 6 mags 10 rounds for single stack, Browning high power (take your pick of 3), about 8 mags, or Sig 226 (only 5 mags, so either find one more, or shoot limited minor with 15 rounds in mags).

That is truly generous of both of you, I really appreciate it. I'm out of +1's, so I hope you guys accept a hand shake on Sunday (Luis, hopefully Friday) to show how much I appreciate the generosity.

 

Luis, I don't have any .40 ammo, only 9mm, and can't hit anything with a Glock....I greatly appreciate the offer though.

 

Maks, I may take you up on your 226 offer just so I have a little bit of a buffer with ammo on that one stage. I could fit 61 rounds in my current mag setup and shoot limited. I may go that route, as shooting with a gun I'm familiar with will probably help me more than having an extra 15 rounds. I could also shoot production and just make every round count, do standing reloads. I may go that route because this will be my 4th match, and I really want to get classified I'll mull it over for a bit. Again, thanks guys.

[vjf915 456]

we look for having fun

I couldn't agree more with this. These matches are a lot of fun, and I wish I didn't miss the past 2 months! I really don't think I will be able to shoot my pistol standing static anymore after doing USPSA.

[Maksim 1,504]

No problem. Let me know, will bring both.

 

The 1911 is 9mm, 6 mags with belt/holster/pouches.

 

Sig is also 9mm, however only have 5 mags.

[HuntingPaper 62]

I have a CZ75 with 3 15rd and 2 10rd mags also.

[madmnk78 3]

I plan on being there this time - M&P .40 with 6 magazines..the way I shoot, an extra might help.

 

I can bring 3 or 4 Beretta 92fs magazines if anyone needs, or 1 for a Browning hi-power (thought I saw an offer with 3 or 4 earlier)

 

as a new shooter, I think I'm both dreading and looking forward too the 50rd stage..

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Wow, what a can of worms I opened. Sorry, that wasn't my intent.

 

I can agree with Maks, in that this might be a fun stage to shoot - always fun to "spray & pray". But I also agree with Slav (although hopefully in not quite as condescending a manner) in that this will turn this match into a logistical nightmare. I'll go with my original suggestion: Why not make this an optional stage - a side match in its own right? You already have a rifle side match, why not a monster pistol side match? If the facility supports it, run them simultaneously.

 

My original thought was that, at a time when we should be attempting to bring new people to the sport, we are sending the wrong message and actually discouraging them from participating. This stage becomes about equipment, not skill or tactics.

 

I was going to try Shongum, it was recommended to me, but if this stage stays as an integral part of the match, I'll pass. Sorry, didn't mean to stir the pot to the extent that I did.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[skibum2 6]

Sounds like it's going to be a fun match, but I will be up in Boston for the weekend. Always have a great time at Shongum...disappointed that I'll miss the 50 rounder.

[vjf915 456]

No problem. Let me know, will bring both.

 

The 1911 is 9mm, 6 mags with belt/holster/pouches.

 

Sig is also 9mm, however only have 5 mags.

With the 1911, I would still be able to compete in Production, right? I may give that a try...although I don't have A LOT of experience with a 1911, I have fired one before.

I have a CZ75 with 3 15rd and 2 10rd mags also.

CZ's have (unfortunately) never felt right in my hands. I swear I'm missing out on all the good stuff

If the facility supports it, run them simultaneously.

Don't you mean spontaneously?

 

Although the 50 round stage does appear pretty daunting, it's not that bad. Maks, your stage was 33 rounds right? So this stage is about 2 more arrays to shoot at? Overall, it's really not that big of a deal. It does leave more room for your plan to go out the door. At least this isn't the classifier, and if I really fudge it up it won't hurt my classification.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Don't you mean spontaneously at the same time?

 

 

Fixed it for people that have trouble with polysyllabic words.

[HuntingPaper 62]

Wow, what a can of worms I opened. Sorry, that wasn't my intent.

 

I can agree with Maks, in that this might be a fun stage to shoot - always fun to "spray & pray". But I also agree with Slav (although hopefully in not quite as condescending a manner) in that this will turn this match into a logistical nightmare. I'll go with my original suggestion: Why not make this an optional stage - a side match in its own right? You already have a rifle side match, why not a monster pistol side match? If the facility supports it, run them simultaneously.

 

My original thought was that, at a time when we should be attempting to bring new people to the sport, we are sending the wrong message and actually discouraging them from participating. This stage becomes about equipment, not skill or tactics.

 

I was going to try Shongum, it was recommended to me, but if this stage stays as an integral part of the match, I'll pass. Sorry, didn't mean to stir the pot to the extent that I did.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

So, you are not coming because you may do pretty bad in one stage of the competition?

Will this affect your competitive shooter future?

 

I'm sorry Bob, I consider you as a person of a great common sense and that's why I don't get this.

 

Saludos

[Jon 264]

Vic, 1911 = L10 since it's SAO

[vjf915 456]

Vic, 1911 = L10 since it's SAO

Gotcha. I think I'll pass on the 1911, as that would give me 60 rounds, and I could load 60 rounds into my SR9 mag setup. I guess I have to decide between shooting my SR9 in production with 51 rounds, my SR9 in limited (with 60 rounds), and Maks' p226 in limited....

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

So, you are not coming because you may do pretty bad in one stage of the competition?

Will this affect your competitive shooter future?

 

I'm sorry Bob, I consider you as a person of a great common sense and that's why I don't get this.

 

Saludos

 

 

That's not the reason. I can do uniformly lousy at any stage, regardless of round-count. Heck, if I didn't attend because of anticipated poor performance, I would have sold off my guns long ago - I've never been better than mediocre. It is just that I anticipate big backlogs when transitioning from the more "normal" stage that precedes the monster. I don't feel like sitting around twiddling my thumbs. Being my age, and the fact that I'm vertically challenged (I'm the correct weight, I just need to be 6'11") the act of taping that stage, let alone shooting it, would wear on me to the point that, by the end of the day, it would cease to be fun. I'm obviously not in it for the competition (well, maybe a little), so fun is the main thrust of my participation.

 

I know my limitations. I mentioned this to someone, in the context that the one match I did at OBRPC nearly killed me (figuratively). They run a great match, very smooth, but 7 stages and 84 shooters was just too much. CJRPC is good, but I couldn't tolerate anything much longer. I really like the 4 stage IDPA matches at SCFGPA and it was when I mentioned this that the comment was made that I would like Shongum, so I was somewhat disappointed when I saw that this match included that "monster" stage.

 

Luis, this is the second time around for me. When I shot IPSC in the past, I was 25 years younger and in (marginally) better shape. I participated in four matches a month as well as a regualr weekly practice which amounted to upwards of 1000 rounds per month. I also participated in some big matches like the Spring Thaw @ Topton and the PA State Championships.

 

Since I am not so gung-ho anymore, I like to pick and choose the matches that have the highest "fun-quotient" for me. Unforunately, Shongum, this month, doesn't fill that bill. Thanks for recognizing my common sense, I'd like to think that, given the parameters,that is what I have applied in this instance.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Maksim 1,504]

Bob. Shongum is not ob or cj. No one ever complained that it was hard. They usually have a long stage and for some reason we always leave early. Further you have half the people who show up, so there is no backlog, nor do I believe that this match suffers logistical nightmares.

 

I drive almost 2 hours each way because to me, it is the friendliest, most laid back match in the area, with no attitude. Ron and mike run a fantastic club, all the rest is extra.

 

Don't let the fear of a 50 round stage scare you. most people quit thinking of how hard things will be instead of when they are doing it.

[Maksim 1,504]

BTW, Vic, you can shoot it single stack minor which is what I started with. I then shot L10 minor with it. Surprisingly I started doing a lot better when I was "outgunned" by all the other limited guns.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Bob. Shongum is not ob or cj. No one ever complained that it was hard. They usually have a long stage and for some reason we always leave early. Further you have half the people who show up, so there is no backlog, nor do I believe that this match suffers logistical nightmares.

 

I drive almost 2 hours each way because to me, it is the friendliest, most laid back match in the area, with no attitude. Ron and mike run a fantastic club, all the rest is extra.

 

Don't let the fear of a 50 round stage scare you. most people quit thinking of how hard things will be instead of when they are doing it.

 

Maks:

 

Did you read my response? I don't "fear" a 50 round stage. I fear what it may do to the match from a logistics standpoint (flow). I'm not condemning Shongum, if that is what the MD wants to have - all well and good. It just doesn't appeal to me as an integral stage of the match. The frinendliness and laid-back attitude were expressed to me and factored highly in my decision to try Shongum. The inclusion of this stage will simply delay my participation there by a month. I'm not driven - my definition of "fun" can be quite a bit different than yours. A 50 round stage, IMHO, will slow the match down to the point where it will lose its appeal to me. And, from a less personal standpoint, it still discourages new shooter participation.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Maksim 1,504]

Yep. I wouldn't fear it. Shongum has a common firing line, not individual pits. So there are no squads that finish early. The other option same day is lower providence rod and gun club in pa.

[Babaganoosh 192]

Yep. I wouldn't fear it. Shongum has a common firing line, not individual pits. So there are no squads that finish early.

 

How does that work? I can't seem to picture it

[Maksim 1,504]

They have two ranges on which they shoot. They have 3 stages setup on one (2 smaller stages and 1 classifier), and 2 longer stages on the second range.

 

They run independent.

 

Typically 4 squads from what I recall. 2 squads on each range.

 

One squad shoots, then the other, then they both go score targets. Then switch stages.... when both squads shot the two stages, go to the other range.

 

Works very well for Shongum, most matches have been finished quite early.

 

Hence why a 50 round stage while it may slow it down, is not, in my opinion, going to have a major slowdown on the other squads such as at CJ or OB, where each stage is its own pit, then the squad is waiting for someone else to finish.

[Maksim 1,504]

 

You can see the stages setup here.

 

one shoots, then the other.

[Babaganoosh 192]

 

You can see the stages setup here.

 

one shoots, then the other.

 

This isn't a royal pain in the a**?

[Maksim 1,504]

This isn't a royal pain in the a**?

 

I thought it would be, but it really isn't. you just have to shoot it to work with it. It is the same concept as the indoor ranges use for IDPA, etc. Lets put it this way, the latest the match has ended in the past year at Shongum is 2pm from what I recall.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I thought it would be, but it really isn't. you just have to shoot it to work with it. It is the same concept as the indoor ranges use for IDPA, etc. Lets put it this way, the latest the match has ended in the past year at Shongum is 2pm from what I recall.

 

 

Yes, and providing the two stages on the single range are approximately equal, things will run smoothly. Now lets say that you have a normal stage and the monster stage on one range and two normal stages on the other. Normal stages = avg 20 seconds to complete. Monster stage = avg 60 seconds to complete. Not only will the squad on the same range be waiting three times as long, but you will have backed-up the other squads waiting to rotate onto that range after completing their two normal stages. This doesn't even factor in the additional differential for taping the monster. And it still discourages new shooters.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Maksim 1,504]

Bob, you are not going to get me to argue with you that it has potential to be a backlog, however from my experience shooting at Shongum, and based on Ron's experience of putting on terrific matches, I would say there is a very low likelyhood that it will cause problems.

 

If you are putting on a 50 round stage at Old Bridge, or Central Jersey, I would agree that it would most likely cause massive problems, however please don't compare your experience at those two clubs to Shongum. If you shoot a few matches there, you would understand where I am coming from, how this stage would not be included if they thought it would cause problems.

[Maksim 1,504]

Last note, as far as the 50 round stage being a turn off... a 50 round Old Bridge level stage... even terrifies me. a 50 round Shongum stage... I am gitty with excitement. =) Almost everyone I have spoken with is excited for this. Even if this does cause massive backlogs... I would enjoy the time at the range. The Range itself is fantastic, and always a pleasure to go up there.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

 

 

Pistol match is 130 rounds.

One stage is 50 rounds, so come prepared with extra mags.

 

 

 

 

50 rounds for one stage? I better get the lead outta my a** and load up some .45acp with black. That's alot of smoke to be had.

 

[vjf915 456]

I don't see the "backlog" as much of an issue either way. Honestly, I don't go to USPSA events to throw hundreds of rounds down range in a short amount of time. I go to enjoy the shooting, planning of my course of fire, and BSing with the guys. If it gets a little backed up due to this one course, oh well....that just means a little bit more planning and BSing

[Maksim 1,504]

ya know... socializing is 50% of it. =P

 

Vic, but let me know if you want me to bring you anything. you got my number? txt me.

[Col. Mortimer 11]

I have been in contact with Ron Guman regarding the 50-round stage. There will be a 16-round stage next to it. Half the 16-round stage squad will help tape the 50-round stage. This should help speed things up. Actual shooting time will be minimally different. A 36-round stage only takes about 50 seconds to shoot. The 50-round stage can't be more than 20 seconds longer. As long as everyone helps out, the 50-round stage will not be a problem. The stage will be a challenge in endurance and concentration.