Justin 0 Posted June 7, 2011 First time posting, I hope this is in the right section. I know there are similar threads out there, but couldn't find any real answers so I wanted to try posting directly. I applied January 14 of this year for my FID and PP, it's now June 6. I went to the station to check the status and they told me they had the card sitting there but there was no one to sign it since there was no real chief. I guess the guy acting as chief doesn't have the authority to sign the FID cards or something. Didn't make sense to me, but that's what they tell me. They said it's at the AG right now and the AG is supposed to figure out who is supposed to sign it in the absence of a chief. My question is this.... is there anything I can do to help the process? Write to the state or AG or anything to make them hurry things up? I'm at almost 5 months and it's getting a bit frustrating! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caine 147 Posted June 7, 2011 Call the NJSP Firearms Investigation Unit - http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/divorg/invest/firearms-invest-unit.html They should be able to give you some guidance and might even call your PD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Babaganoosh 192 Posted June 7, 2011 Call the NJSP Firearms Investigation Unit - http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/divorg/invest/firearms-invest-unit.html They should be able to give you some guidance and might even call your PD. However don't email them because they wont answer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e80hydro 120 Posted June 7, 2011 Call your towns Mayor and ask why you don't have a police chief, and who is currently making the decisions at your police department. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 264 Posted June 7, 2011 The law says Chief Law Enforcement Officer. Whoever is running the show should be signing your FID. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sixtytwo327 14 Posted June 7, 2011 Similar situation, though not as bad - yet. Fingerprint OK, references OK, everything is approved, just needs to be signed by the chief. I've been (very politely) stopping in every week to "see if it's ready," but still no dice. Good luck. And thanks for the advice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted June 7, 2011 From the NJSP Firearms Application Guide (Step 2 under "Issuance of the FPID").... 2. Have the Chief of Police sign the FPID card. If your agency presently does not have a Chief, then the highest-ranking officer is to sign the card. Departments with a Public Safety Director are to have the highest-ranking sworn police officer sign the card. So there is already a contingency in place for your scenario. Refer your PD to the NJSP Guide and if they are still recalcitrant, as others have recommended, you call the NJSP Firearms Unit and relate the story. Failing this, a meeting with your town's mayor or member of the city governing body (i. e. town council) may get it done. Good luck. Adios, Pizza Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LorenzoS 100 Posted June 7, 2011 What a pathetic excuse. Imagine telling them I was going to send the town my property tax payment, but could not find a pen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KpdPipes 388 Posted June 7, 2011 First time posting, I hope this is in the right section. I know there are similar threads out there, but couldn't find any real answers so I wanted to try posting directly. I applied January 14 of this year for my FID and PP, it's now June 6. I went to the station to check the status and they told me they had the card sitting there but there was no one to sign it since there was no real chief. I guess the guy acting as chief doesn't have the authority to sign the FID cards or something. Didn't make sense to me, but that's what they tell me. They said it's at the AG right now and the AG is supposed to figure out who is supposed to sign it in the absence of a chief. My question is this.... is there anything I can do to help the process? Write to the state or AG or anything to make them hurry things up? I'm at almost 5 months and it's getting a bit frustrating! Contact NJSP Firearms Unit..they will call the delartment and explaint hat whoever is acting as CLEO can and should be signing off on permits... That said, if the County prosecutor's office is overseeing the PD, you may have to get the signoff from them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dewhitewolf 8 Posted June 7, 2011 I had this same problem in Mt. Olive back in about 2000 or so. They told me no permits/FID's could be issued because the chief was on medical leave. When I contacted the state police (to find out if there was a way I could have it done through them), they told me that the next guy in line could sign it, no problem. Of course, the next guy in line ("acting" chief), didn't want to do it. Ultimately, the officer who handled my paperwork told me to just forget about it. He also said that I was lying and that I never called the state police at all, that I was just making that up. That day I walked down the hall to the mayor's office to file a formal complaint against the police dept., the officer who repeatedly gave me a hard time over the 8 months I was waiting, and all the comments he said to me. Two days later, I got a call saying I could pick up my permits. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justin 0 Posted June 7, 2011 Wow! Thanks for all the quick responses! I will be contacting the NJ FIU with this issue. I don't want to be the gun purchaser trying to explain laws to the police (they may think I'm a little too anxious), hopefully the FIU will be able to fill them in on what they're missing. They 'haven't been able' to sign FID cards since February 1. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Shoot_It_All 13 Posted June 8, 2011 What municipality I missed it of you specified Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justin 0 Posted June 8, 2011 What municipality I missed it of you specified Franklin Lakes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted June 8, 2011 Franklin Lakes Franklin lakes had my permits done in 30days just this past summer... Officer cook and Lt. Osenbruck are really nice guys and very helpful and are well informed on gun laws, dont be afraid to talk to them, i spoke with P.O. Cook for 30mins when i picked up my permits just shooting the sh*t, i'm suprised your having such difficulties over there. The chief retired a while ago, why hasn't he been replaced yet? My guess is there is something internally going on in the department, people are up for promotions so they may be tip toeing around these issues. Franklin Lakes has been ahead of the game in comparison to other PD's, im sure this is just a hicup. This is good to know, i need to stop in and apply for more permits, i'll stop in tomorrow and see if there around and ask them what the deal is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpecialK 193 Posted June 8, 2011 I don't want to be the gun purchaser trying to explain laws to the police (they may think I'm a little too anxious) Have I mentioned how much I hate this state lately? How is this a reasonable thought at all? Oh right I live in New Jersey where people are AFRAID of even committing lawful acts. I am not picking on you or saying you are wrong for feeling this way, just trying to shed light on that it is not normal or acceptable to feel this way. We are not subjects of New Jersey, we shall not fear our government! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djg0770 481 Posted June 9, 2011 We are not subjects of New Jersey, we shall not fear our government! Fixed that for you. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpecialK 193 Posted June 9, 2011 No fixing this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KpdPipes 388 Posted June 9, 2011 Franklin lakes had my permits done in 30days just this past summer... Officer cook and Lt. Osenbruck are really nice guys and very helpful and are well informed on gun laws, dont be afraid to talk to them, i spoke with P.O. Cook for 30mins when i picked up my permits just shooting the sh*t, i'm suprised your having such difficulties over there. The chief retired a while ago, why hasn't he been replaced yet? My guess is there is something internally going on in the department, people are up for promotions so they may be tip toeing around these issues. Franklin Lakes has been ahead of the game in comparison to other PD's, im sure this is just a hicup. This is good to know, i need to stop in and apply for more permits, i'll stop in tomorrow and see if there around and ask them what the deal is. They dont want to promote a Chief, they want to put in a Civilian Public Safety Director, so they are stalling the promotion process while they figure out how the department is to be structured. What the politicians DONT (Ever it seems) realize is that their PSD can actually have no input in the day-to-day operations of the department, the CLEO has to be sworn and in the end is STILL the CLEO, even if he doesnt carry the title of "Chief". Asfar as the Acting not wanting to sign the permits, it's not uncommon, people in a temporary position are loathe to assume the responsibility, or the liability, and in many cases dont understand that it is still required of them. That section of the Administrative Code makes 2C:39 and 2C:58 look cogent, and well-written. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgofnj 5 Posted June 9, 2011 That's the lamest excuse I ever heard. My FID was signed by the acting chief when the chief was on vacation, it was signed by the captin, and the FID even says Captin, so why does it have to be signed by a CHief?. I don't care where you are, someone is filling that role and that person should be able to sign it. Unbelievable! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KpdPipes 388 Posted June 9, 2011 That's the lamest excuse I ever heard. My FID was signed by the acting chief when the chief was on vacation, it was signed by the captin, and the FID even says Captin, so why does it have to be signed by a CHief?. I don't care where you are, someone is filling that role and that person should be able to sign it. Unbelievable! it is what it is..Guys dont want to assume the liability for being chief when they aren't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob B 103 Posted June 9, 2011 it is what it is..Guys dont want to assume the liability for being chief when they aren't. Proof that the approval authority cannot be law enforcement and that approval cannot be based on subjective criteria. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e80hydro 120 Posted June 9, 2011 A civilian public safety director instead of a police chief? What town is that again, Asbury Park? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KpdPipes 388 Posted June 10, 2011 Proof that the approval authority cannot be law enforcement and that approval cannot be based on subjective criteria. Great,,make it completely Politcal then..at least with the Authority in LE hands politics plays a much lesser role. Guess what there's no "Chief Academy" when a guy gets tossed into that seat suddenly there arent a lot of people he can turn to. Other Chief's resent him, because it shows the tenuousness of THEIR position, the guy who is suspended or booted in many cases wont help. The system sucks, but its what we work with. I know a guy (non Civil Service) who went from Lt to Chief in one day..no warning, no preparation..it took him close to 3 months to finally get the hang of being responsible for his entire town and department. ' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KpdPipes 388 Posted June 10, 2011 A civilian public safety director instead of a police chief? What town is that again, Asbury Park? League of Municipalities has been pushing that for years. Some places it has worked,..some it hasnt, and some have been a complete Disaster (Newark, Trenton, Camden..shall I go on?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted June 10, 2011 League of Municipalities has been pushing that for years. Some places it has worked,..some it hasnt, and some have been a complete Disaster (Newark, Trenton, Camden..shall I go on?) Franklin lakes is a far cry from structured PD's like inner urban cities i'm sure you know. The fact is we probably don't even need a chief of police. I mean what would he do other then decide who goes where for road duty? I know its much more then that, but on the surface, not much goes on in this town other then domestic violence.. I read the police blotter every week and its nothing but traffic stops and dui's and some thefts here and there. This town is very political to begin with, but that can be a good thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 264 Posted June 10, 2011 Franklin lakes is a far cry from structured PD's like inner urban cities i'm sure you know. The fact is we probably don't even need a chief of police. I mean what would he do other then decide who goes where for road duty? I know its much more then that, but on the surface, not much goes on in this town other then domestic violence.. I read the police blotter every week and its nothing but traffic stops and dui's and some thefts here and there. This town is very political to begin with, but that can be a good thing. You really have no clue... Believe me even in "quiet" towns the Chief has WAY more on his plate than you could ever imagine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted June 10, 2011 You really have no clue... Believe me even in "quiet" towns the Chief has WAY more on his plate than you could ever imagine. I'm not denying that, but it seems that they have managed the past couple months with out one. So i do wonder who is picking up the slack, other then this issue which seems to be getting zero attention. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justin 0 Posted June 13, 2011 Franklin lakes had my permits done in 30days just this past summer... Officer cook and Lt. Osenbruck are really nice guys and very helpful and are well informed on gun laws, dont be afraid to talk to them, i spoke with P.O. Cook for 30mins when i picked up my permits just shooting the sh*t, i'm suprised your having such difficulties over there. The chief retired a while ago, why hasn't he been replaced yet? My guess is there is something internally going on in the department, people are up for promotions so they may be tip toeing around these issues. Franklin Lakes has been ahead of the game in comparison to other PD's, im sure this is just a hicup. This is good to know, i need to stop in and apply for more permits, i'll stop in tomorrow and see if there around and ask them what the deal is. I spoke with both Cook and Osenbruck, they do seem like really cool guys and very helpful. They seemed to be pretty hands off with this situation though and it sounded like it wasn't really in their hands at this point. Sounded like they are sitting back and waiting for someone to tell them what to do. Did you by any chance stop in and ask what's going on? any update? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted June 13, 2011 I spoke with both Cook and Osenbruck, they do seem like really cool guys and very helpful. They seemed to be pretty hands off with this situation though and it sounded like it wasn't really in their hands at this point. Sounded like they are sitting back and waiting for someone to tell them what to do. Did you by any chance stop in and ask what's going on? any update? Havn't had a chance, work has been ridiculously busy. I'm gonna force myself to go this week, hopefully tomorrow, and i hope one of them is there when i stop in, i hate having to go back. On a positive note i actually need a pistol permit . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justin 0 Posted June 14, 2011 Have I mentioned how much I hate this state lately? How is this a reasonable thought at all? Oh right I live in New Jersey where people are AFRAID of even committing lawful acts. I am not picking on you or saying you are wrong for feeling this way, just trying to shed light on that it is not normal or acceptable to feel this way. We are not subjects of New Jersey, we shall not fear our government! I must admit that it's mostly shyness, I really dislike confronting authority. I'm 22, and these guys are more than twice my age. I'd have no problem emailing the department, but face to face confrontation is difficult for me. (yes, online social networking and the age of convenient internet based communication has affected my communication skills in a negative way) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites