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JackDaWack

NJ Passes public workers health/pension reform

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http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/health_and_pension_overhaul_cl.html

 

So I've been following this for the past couple days to see what would happen. Apparently a bill was put together last week and introduced about 3 days ago, and today it has passed the assembly. I'm seriously confused on the motives about this bill because there seems to be no details or little details on exactly what they plan on doing. They basically just wrote the state a blank check curtsey of the public workers. I'd like to know if you guys even herd about this, and for the public works here on the forum their thoughts. The public seems to be 25% for and 75% against.... seems like our representatives don't care what we think.

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The fact that Lou greenwald is on the bill makes me suspect however the fiscal state of our state is in large part due to out of control state workers unions having forced their demo cronies into deals that have bankrupt our state

I dont think many people would disagree with this fact. However, i feel that we just traded the lesser evil for NJ legislation...and we as firearm owners know exactly how legislation in NJ works.... And lets not forget the state stood by for some reason while the unions ran wild.

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It's a great move by the RepubliCrats...keep the middle class arguing over pennies while they make millions...I wonder what will happen?

It's far past pennies at this point given this new legislation.

 

 

I do agree that reform needs to take place, but unless its accountable i see no reason to pass useless reform or "blind" reform. The unions seem to have suggest many possible ways to reform the state pensions and health care, but CC didnt even care nor listen to there opinions, this was fact and a senator voted against because of it. What kicks me the most about this is that a 100+ page bill was passed 3 days after it was originally released.

 

Public workers will be loosing a chunk of there pay, which means what ever there budgets was/were is now anywhere from 3-35% out of balance.

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It's far past pennies at this point given this new legislation.

 

 

I do agree that reform needs to take place, but unless its accountable i see no reason to pass useless reform or "blind" reform. The unions seem to have suggest many possible ways to reform the state pensions and health care, but CC didnt even care nor listen to there opinions, this was fact and a senator voted against because of it. What kicks me the most about this is that a 100+ page bill was passed 3 days after it was originally released.

 

Public workers will be loosing a chunk of there pay, which means what ever there budgets was/were is now anywhere from 3-35% out of balance.

 

 

I'm on your side....the shame is when I started teaching and the economy was "good" people made fun of me because I'd never make any money...when the economy went to "sh*t" I became the cause of the problem...don't know how that happened

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The way I see it is - the teachers and other public works have a health care system that's second to none right now. The problem is that it's so freaking expensive in a time where nobody can afford anything. My own company has cut back and made changes in our health care. Private sector workers are paying 20-30% or even more for their health care plans. We also have the choice of what to include in our plans. That's not the case with state workers - they're given 1 plan - all or nothing. The fact of the matter is, that the reform that's being done is what's best for everyone. Sure the public works will have contribute money to their health plans, but isn't that what everyone's already doing in "the real world"? Also - I think this reform gives you a choice of what health care plan you can pick, if you're s state worker. Someone who's say single, young, healthy, etc. can pick a lesser plan and save some money while others who really need it can take the better plans.

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I'm on your side....the shame is when I started teaching and the economy was "good" people made fun of me because I'd never make any money...when the economy went to "sh*t" I became the cause of the problem...don't know how that happened

 

 

I never thought teachers were the problem. Teachers' unions are the problem.

 

I graduated from highschool (granted, in FL) a mere 13 years ago, and I very much remember that there were horrid teachers that couldn't be removed, because of the unions. Pre-programmed raises, impossibility of being fired, no way/motivation to be rewarded for exemplary performance. It was a sad system where mediocrity was the norm only because many teachers actually had the integrity to put SOME effort into their jobs.

 

It's the unions that are selling a bad system to the teachers and the public is tired of paying for it.

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Glad to see you all buy into the media hype. Teacher's can and have been fired it happens all the time. Tenure is there to protect teachers from being fired just to replaced with younger, cheaper to employ teachers. My high school did this with physical education teachers. They'd hire them let them work for three years then fire them before they had tenure. I'm not making a lot of money and neither are my coworkers. The ones that do have put in years of service. We've contributed to the pension fund and the state is supposed to match it...instead they've been stealing from it. Our benefits are good but the trade off has been traditionally lower salaries than people with equal education. New Jersey is top 5 in every education category and number 1 in graduating students and this is because we have dedicated teachers and a strong union that protects our rights as well as the rights of the students. What does CC care about public school anyway? His kids all go to a high priced private school.

 

I'm happy you all can type coherent sentences (well at least most can anyways). Maybe you should thank a teacher for that.

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I'm on your side....the shame is when I started teaching and the economy was "good" people made fun of me because I'd never make any money...when the economy went to "sh*t" I became the cause of the problem...don't know how that happened

 

+1000!

 

When times were good, the state did not fund the pensions fully (if at all). The economy would drive it with mass profits from the money handlers. Now the economy has gone to sh*t, teachers and cops are retiring in droves and the pyramid is about to collapse. Same thing with Social Security. Soon everyone will be forked over this.

 

You know, it's funny. When teachers were getting paid d!ck, nobody complained about their benefits! When I graduated college and started teaching, I was making 25% of what my brother (the Chemical Engineer) was making and he graduated college the same year I did. My whole career I was behind the eight ball, salary wise. Now I retired and all of a sudden, I am the villain because I have a pension and benefits. You can not have it both ways!

 

EDIT: If you can read this, thank a teacher!

 

 

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Glad to see you all buy into the media hype. Teacher's can and have been fired it happens all the time. Tenure is there to protect teachers from being fired just to replaced with younger, cheaper to employ teachers.

 

My job isn't safe, why should yours be?

 

My high school did this with physical education teachers. They'd hire them let them work for three years then fire them before they had tenure.

 

A trained monkey could be a phys ed teacher. Maybe the "teachers" were no good at it and instead of keeping a liability on and locking them in, they changed up.

 

We've contributed to the pension fund and the state is supposed to match it

 

I fund 100% of my pension and I contribute toward your pension too. Who should be complaining here? The "STATE" is taxpayers. Here's an idea; You fund 100% of your pension and I'll fund 100% of mine. Once we're even, there won't be any complaints.

 

Our benefits are good but the trade off has been traditionally lower salaries than people with equal education.

 

"Good"? Really? You call your benefits GOOD? What's your deductible? I have a $3000 deductible before any insurance kicks in and I pay $75/week for it for me and my wife. How much do you pay per week? Anything?

 

New Jersey is top 5 in every education category and number 1 in graduating students and this is because we have dedicated teachers and a strong union that protects our rights as well as the rights of the students.

 

Your rights eh? You mean, it holds the state taxpayers hostage to ridiculous demands and raises in years when no one else was getting them.

 

What does CC care about public school anyway? His kids all go to a high priced private school.

 

And he pays $38,000 in property taxes towards a public facility he doesn't use.

 

I'm happy you all can type coherent sentences (well at least most can anyways). Maybe you should thank a teacher for that.

 

I went to public school but it was my mother who made sure that I was literate, partially because she encouraged me to read.

 

 

As a final note, my issue is with this sense of entitlement that I keep hearing. You are entitled to what people are willing to pay you. If you don't like it, do something else. Teachers in public school are paid mostly from property taxes. I've been paying property taxes to Vernon for almost 20 years for schools that I will never utilize. I fund my own 401k, my company does not match it and when it runs out, it runs out. What you are asking is for me to have no guarantees, to fund my own retirement and benefits and fund YOURS too while you are covered for life, locked in an secure tenured job. You wonder why people aren't happy with teachers?

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Glad to see you all buy into the media hype. Teacher's can and have been fired it happens all the time. Tenure is there to protect teachers from being fired just to replaced with younger, cheaper to employ teachers. My high school did this with physical education teachers. They'd hire them let them work for three years then fire them before they had tenure. I'm not making a lot of money and neither are my coworkers. The ones that do have put in years of service. We've contributed to the pension fund and the state is supposed to match it...instead they've been stealing from it. Our benefits are good but the trade off has been traditionally lower salaries than people with equal education. New Jersey is top 5 in every education category and number 1 in graduating students and this is because we have dedicated teachers and a strong union that protects our rights as well as the rights of the students. What does CC care about public school anyway? His kids all go to a high priced private school.

 

I'm happy you all can type coherent sentences (well at least most can anyways). Maybe you should thank a teacher for that.

 

The only thing I agree with you about is the state reneging on their obligation to fund pensions. As for compensation, like my friend Chris Christie said "pick a different profession if you don't like it". I know that there are a number of school districts where teacher salaries reach and exceed six figures at the top of the tenure track (max years and max post graduate work). There are a lot of highly educated and experienced people in non teaching fields that would love pay and job security like that.

I was a school teacher for a few years. Just like it took going to Catholic high school to drive all religion right out of me, it took being a public school teacher to make me despise public employee unions (I had been very pro-union up until then, and still have some pro-union sentiments for private industry). The union's primary mission was to protect the dead wood (because there was SO much of it) and secondarily to clamor for more pay/benefits, while hypocritically claiming "it's for the children". I often contemplated the act that would make me a pariah in that school, renouncing the union and declining membership. I would've still had to pay union dues though for them to engage in collective bargaining behavior that I objected to. Thankfully I got out of the profession.

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I am now exercising what could be considered internet bravado.

 

Glad to see you all buy into the media hype. Forget media hype, generally the media sides with the Liberal/Union cause. Teacher's can and have been fired it happens all the time. Hardly! Tenure is there to protect teachers from being fired just to replaced with younger, cheaper to employ teachers. This is the way business works. But, if you make yourself a valuable asset, you keep your job. There should be no sacred cows. My high school did this with physical education teachers. They'd hire them let them work for three years then fire them before they had tenure. If they were mediocre, this was a wise decision. I'm not making a lot of money and neither are my coworkers. What do you do in the other two months? The ones that do have put in years of service. We've contributed to the pension fund and the state is supposed to match it... Match? How about match up to 4 or 8% like the real world? instead they've been stealing from it. Our benefits are good but the trade off has been traditionally lower salaries than people with equal education. Maybe years ago but not currently. BTW Don’t make me laugh about what a Masters or PHD in education is worth as far as the effort to attain them. New Jersey is top 5 in every education category and number 1 in graduating students and this is because we have dedicated teachers and a strong union that protects our rights as well as the rights of the students. Such rhetoric and BS. What does CC care about public school anyway? LOL The cost is money down a rat hole. His kids all go to a high priced private school. And he should get a voucher for doing so…

 

I'm happy you all can type coherent sentences (well at least most can anyways). Maybe you should thank a teacher for that. Sure and all the kids you are graduating from HS with an 6th or 8th grade reading level thank you too.

 

 

 

Flame OFF

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Mark - I could go on a huge rant about what you said there, but I won't.... but I will rant on a little.

 

I thank my teachers for teaching me how to read and write, but my reading comprehension and language skills were at the college level when I was in Jr high, thanks to my own talents. Oh - those teachers by the way, they made in the $20k's.

 

My main issue is that the teachers' unions are not properly representing the teachers, and are keeping the ones who want to protest about it down out of fear of getting kicked out of their jobs and other things because of it. They also take money out of teacher's salaries whether or not they want to be a member of the union or not! Another thing is the completely undeserved sense of entitlement that I'm seeing from a lot of public workers.

 

My cousin is a 1st year middle school Spanish teacher.... and she's drank the kool aid. I absolutely hate to get into stuff like this with family, but I've tried to make her see past the propaganda that she's been inundated with.

 

There's 2 sides of things - Reality, and Perception. Unfortunately, they are far apart and hardly ever mix. Look at the whole "Millionaire's tax" thing.

 

Here's the reality part: The democrats, under former Governor Corzine, initiated the Millionaire's tax (which actually taxed people and companies making over $400k). They could have renewed it in the legislatiure and Corzine would have rubber stamped it at the end of his term, but they did not. They let it expire, and Governor Christie continually vetoes it as he promised no new taxes.

The democratic legislature (as well as the public worker's and teacher's unions) chose to use this to say "Governor Christie is giving tax breaks to the rich!" They continually bring up the "Tax breaks for millionaires" when anything budgetary comes up. The legislature continues to waste money on introducing the same bill over and over again, when they know it will not pass because they want to continue to use this as their war cry.

 

Here's the perception part: When people see the "tax breaks for millionaires" and and all of the advertising spent by the NJEA and other unions... and believe it. To quote Joseph Goebbels: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

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When times were good no one cared. Fact is, times are not good anymore. The union was offered a deal last week where workers would pay 3%. They turned it down. Teachers complained the medical benefits were not as good as they have. Well, i am sorry. tough luck. I now have an HMO. $165.00 a week comes out of my check. $660 a month or almost $8,000 a year. As far as pension go, union members should be lucky you have one. Personally, i think all workers should go to 401K. Now before i get bashed, my wife is a teacher, and my best friend is a teacher. They yell at me too. The tax payers cannot continue to pay for this. The reality of it is, as that none of these bloated benefits should have ever come to be. Unions have no place anymore. They had a purpose at one time but not anymore.

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Yeah, all cops, county workers, union members and teachers are lazy, money grubbing drains on our tax dollars, and all gun owning, second amendment advocates are knuckle dragging Neanderthals. I know this to be true because I read it on the Internet and heard it on 101.5. :sarcastichand:

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Yeah, all cops, county workers, union members and teachers are lazy, money grubbing drains on our tax dollars, and all gun owning, second amendment advocates are knuckle dragging Neanderthals. I know this to be true because I read it on the Internet and heard it on 101.5. :sarcastichand:

 

 

+1000

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