Issues with Hornady Critical Defense .357

[alec.mc 180]

I picked up some Hornady Critical Defense FTX .357mag for my Ruger GP100 revolver, Based on good reviews and good name reputation, I decided to pick up a box of 20 to keep primarily loaded for my home defense gun.

 

Though, I did want to test out about a dozen or so shots @ the range- just to see how they fired.

 

Loaded them up in my new ruger gp100, got 4 shots off, go to fire my 5th and the gun will no longer cycle on DA or SA by trigger pull or cocking back, upon opening the release, which took a bit of effort i noticed the prime had blown off the casing, it had become lodged in there in such away it rendered the revolver useless.

 

The other issue is the brass would not clear out, I literally had to tap them out with a rod to get the popped out, it took some considerable force - they were lodged in there pretty good. ( all six )

 

 

Im pretty upset with the purchase and how it's advertised to be one of the best, when it failed horibly during my test run, might this had been a time where I had actually needed the ammo for self defense, the story would not be so good.

 

And at nearly 30 dollars for a box of 20. I shot out the day flawlessly with cheap PMC and Agulia ammo, both 38spl and 357

 

 

Is it possible that I just got a bad batch? or simply the Ruger doesn't like to eat through the hornady?

 

rant over.

 

thanks

 

[CageFighter 236]

I hope it was a bad batch, I just bought a box.

need to test it before I carry my LCR.

[Mr.Shoot_It_All 13]

Worried now wanted to buy a box of 9 and 45 but concerned esp since 45 is running through a sw 625

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Is it possible that I just got a bad batch? or simply the Ruger doesn't like to eat through the hornady?

 

 

 

 

I would contact Hornady and tell them what happened and also the lot number on the box wouldn't be the first time there was a bad batch of ammo out there.

 

You might also post the lot number here in case other have it and just to be extra careful or set it aside and see what Hornady has to say first before they use it.

 

Harry

[alec.mc 180]

Good idea Harry, I shot off an email to Hornady just a moment ago, Hopefully I will see a response by tomorrow.

The Lot # is 3110983

Caliber and Model# : 357 MAG 125 Grain FTX / #90500

[Old School 611]

Stuff looks kind of hot but not real bad. But, the blown primer is not good. And, why did the others stick in the chamber? Were the chambers clean?

 

Not good!

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Hornady is top-notch ammo and they'll take care off this. Update this thread sir when they resolve this.

[alec.mc 180]

Stuff looks kind of hot but not real bad. But, the blown primer is not good. And, why did the others stick in the chamber? Were the chambers clean?

 

Not good!

 

 

Chambers were relatively clean, I might have shot off 20-25 rounds of PMC .357 before hand. But that should not really matter. After dislodging the hornady I went back to shooting my cheap stuff, 357 hornady and agulia 38 specials, these all worked flawlessly.

[CageFighter 236]

mine is

 

Lot# is 3110222

Caliber and Model# : 357 MAG 125 Grain FTX

 

gotta test it soon.

[JTQ911 2]

Gentlemen:

 

I spend most of my time on 1911 forum. There have been multiple cases of users on that forum with issues with this ammo. Most have been staying clear of it. I will try to find the links. If memory serves correctly, I was "suprised" at how Hornady handled the complaints.

[JTQ911 2]

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=248097&highlight=hornady+critical+defense

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Thanks for that. let me check to see what color primers i have on my rounds.

[alec.mc 180]

Well, while mine sort of follows the trend, I am having issues with the Copper colored primers.. While I did not have any FTF, only aforementioned issues.... BUT, I did only fire off six rounds before packing up the box and throwing it in my bag.

[JTQ911 2]

Makes me think, maybe from now on I'll test at least half of any box of SD ammo I plan on using, in a random order to verify function.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Yep - mine are copper primed. I'll have to fire off a mag to see how they perform. I also have my Federal EFMJ so I should be good though.

[lunker 274]

Two things immediately come to mind, but they are normally associated with used guns.

 

1) The difficult extraction in a 357 is often due to shooting (shorter) 38 special rounds through the gun and not scrubbing the cylinder, then shooting (longer) 357 mag ammo. A ring of crud builds up and causes difficult extraction because the long 357 brass expands in the cylinder and forms a tight seal against the crud.

 

2) The Ruger is often known for a tough double action trigger pull. A lot of people lighten up the trigger pull by loosening the mainspring. I do that in my S&W by turning the screw in the grip frame counterclockwise a few turns. Since you said your gun is new, I am thinking that your tension screw (or whatever the Ruger equivalent is) has backed itself out a little. This lends itself to lighter strikes. I am not familiar with the Ruger GP100 design, but I would take off the grip panels and look for any method of adding/removing tension from the mainspring. Like I said, on S&W revolvers it is a screw in the grip frame. I would think the Ruger has something similar. Buy a bottle of blue loctite and apply it to the screw threads (if it is indeed a screw). I know I need to do that on my Model 28-2 topstrap screw. It always works itself loose under recoil. If I don't, one day I will lose it.

[NJ609 22]

Never had an issue with their .380 but that's the only caliber I use this ammo in. For all other PD rounds I stick with Remington Golden Saber.

[raz-0 1,259]

1) The difficult extraction in a 357 is often due to shooting (shorter) 38 special rounds through the gun and not scrubbing the cylinder, then shooting (longer) 357 mag ammo. A ring of crud builds up and causes difficult extraction because the long 357 brass expands in the cylinder and forms a tight seal against the crud.

 

That ring of crud can also raise pressures significantly. Which can result in difficult ejection, backed out primers, ruptured primers (op's problem), and case head separation.

 

So... might not be a problem with the ammo if you put a bunch of .38 special through the thing.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

That ring of crud can also raise pressures significantly. Which can result in difficult ejection, backed out primers, ruptured primers (op's problem), and case head separation.

 

So... might not be a problem with the ammo if you put a bunch of .38 special through the thing.

 

OK, so this myth (have seen it many times before) states that the crud is basically crimping the front of the round down, and makes high pressures.

 

Ring of crud cannot raise pressures much at all. Think about crimping for a second (which is safe and doesnt blow out primers etc etc). If you reload a round, and you crimp it, think amount how much force you exert on that lever. Not only do you have ~18" of mechanical advantage, but you have to consciously give it a good tug. For it to raise pressures beyond that, you would have to logically be exerting even MORE force on the .357 as you load it into the dirty chamber, with NO mechanical advantage, in order to exceed the pressures a crimp makes! (You cant physically provide enough force with your fingers). Ring of crud can make difficult extraction. It will NOT make high pressure.

 

This is how yet another internet myth is debunked.

[alec.mc 180]

I spoke with somebody from Hornady today, they are arranging UPS to come and pick up the box of ammo and test it.

 

 

------

 

 

I did fire off various rounds of 357 and 38 special before hand, but like I said - after having problems with ONLY this ammo - I had went back to firing my other rounds of 38 special and 357 with any hiccups..

 

If the problem of the crud ring was true for me, wouldnt my other 357 rounds be jamming in there as well?

 

I should only mention that the ammo was difficult to extract, inserting them was smooth as butter, it was only after they were fired is when they would not extract.

[Wolfy 51]

It's possible Hornady's brass is sized longer than the other 357 ammo.

[alec.mc 180]

It's possible Hornady's brass is sized longer than the other 357 ammo.

 

 

It's shortest, if anything. Did a quick little comparison.

 

[Wolfy 51]

Alec we are talking thousandths of an inch.

[GRIZ 3,369]

It's possible Hornady's brass is sized longer than the other 357 ammo

 

Alec we are talking thousandths of an inch

 

I would think Hornaday's brass would be in SAAMI standards all the time. A few thousands wouldn't make that much difference to affect extraction.

 

OK, so this myth (have seen it many times before) states that the crud is basically crimping the front of the round down, and makes high pressures.

 

glennp is correct on this. If you had enough crud in the chambers to increase pressures you'd never get the round in the cylinder.

[raz-0 1,259]

OK, so this myth (have seen it many times before) states that the crud is basically crimping the front of the round down, and makes high pressures.

 

Ring of crud cannot raise pressures much at all. Think about crimping for a second (which is safe and doesnt blow out primers etc etc). If you reload a round, and you crimp it, think amount how much force you exert on that lever. Not only do you have ~18" of mechanical advantage, but you have to consciously give it a good tug. For it to raise pressures beyond that, you would have to logically be exerting even MORE force on the .357 as you load it into the dirty chamber, with NO mechanical advantage, in order to exceed the pressures a crimp makes! (You cant physically provide enough force with your fingers). Ring of crud can make difficult extraction. It will NOT make high pressure.

 

This is how yet another internet myth is debunked.

 

I like seeing you use logic, but you are leaving things out, and are far from debunking it. The ring of crud does not have to form where it interferes with the case mouth. Even if it is softish and is squeezed forward by the case mouth of the longer brass, it can still form a wedge of crud that can wedge against the sides of the bullet with an effect similar to seating a rifle round against the lands with a charge not tolerant of that. It doesn't KB the gun usually, but you will get hard extraction and blown out primers.

 

What is the OP complaing about.. hard extraction and blown out primers.

 

Your logic about having to insert it with so much force as to crimp the round tighter to hold the bullet in SOOOOO much that pressures spike is the absolute wrong way to think about it. The force just has to make a wedge out of leading and other barrel crud. The simple machine of a wedge, placed in the path of a bullet powered by an explosion, is what does the work, not your hand. By your logic, wheel chocks are an impossibility because I would have to wedge them under my car's tires with enough force to lift the car.

 

Do you believe popping primers on 5.56 ammo loaded to 62k psi when shot in a .223 with a shorter leade is a myth too? It's the same principle as what I'm saying above. The shorter leade adds friction earlier than intended in the designed operation of the cartridge and undesirable things happen.

 

Have I seen the problem in person? No, I dislike revolvers so don't shoot them a lot. Have I seen people have problems getting .357 in a chamber when they have shot a lot of .38 from residue? Yes. Have I seen a lot of people mess up their gear by just pushing a little harder? Definitely. Cleaning your chamber would prevent the above, but I can see how it would happen that someone deccides to just push it in harder. TO make a bad situation, you just have to scrape some buildup into an obstruction, whichouwould probably take about the same amount of force as say.. cleaning out the chamber. Whcih you do with a short brush and basic hand power all the time.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

How many people have seen this mysterious "crud" left-over in their revolvers? I have shot over 100 rounds of .38 Special Wad Cutters through our 686 and then followed them with some .357 Magnums. We have never, ever had an issue. I don't know why our wad cutters are so darn smoky when we shoot them, our "normal" .38 Special and .357 Magnums don't make that kind of smoke.

[lunker 274]

Plenty of first hand experience with 38 special crud rings. They do make for hard extraction.

[tony357 386]

They were hard to extract because they are magnum loads..

 

Not uncommon for a primer to blow out on magnum load it has happened before and will happen again..

 

The best i suspect you will get is a sorry for the inconvience and a new box of ammo..

 

Which to a seasoned shooter would be good enough..

[alec.mc 180]

They were hard to extract because they are magnum loads..

 

 

Hard to extract is one thing... Having to pound the spent casings out with a mallet and a rod is another.

 

Any other magnum load i've fired off in this has extracted without issues.

[alec.mc 180]

Well, I have an Update on this issue.

 

A rep from Hornady called me earlier today and explained that they did actually find an issue.

 

He had explained that the brass casings were to soft because they were " over cooked " when heat treated, and that they would over expand when fired and not shrink back down after cooling to be extracted. He explained the problem was with a machine in their production line called " the needler ", which is the heat treater , and has since been replaced.

 

He also offered to replace my one defective box with a few new boxes once they come out of production ( currently backordered )

 

To those who have some of this ammo sitting around either for a rainy day, self defense,or zombie apocalypse - Do yourself a favor and fire a few rounds off to make sure they function properly.

 

Thanks

 

-Alec