Locked Box in Locked Trunk

[s8n 14]

Just a hypothetical scenario. Lets say you are pulled over and give permission to the officer to search the vehicle.Does that permission also allow that officer to open a locked ammo box or gun case? Is there any situation that would require you to open them for inspection?

 

Just wondering.

[PatRuane 1]

a warrant.

[ajtesq 11]

Just a hypothetical scenario. Lets say you are pulled over and give permission to the officer to search the vehicle.Does that permission also allow that officer to open a locked ammo box or gun case? Is there any situation that would require you to open them for inspection?

 

Just wondering.

 

Of course it's recommended to not consent to the search... but you can consent to a limited search. This also isn't a good idea though as it can give the officer view of something giving rise to probable cause for further search, arrest / search incident to arrest, etc. So, you can say 'go ahead and look but don't open the box',but that will NOT end well.

[Babyface Finster 45]

Don't know the answer to the question, but why in the world would you ever consent to a search? If they have to ask if they can search they have no reason to do so, IMO.

[PK90 3,570]

yes

[AnthonyG 36]

If you give consent to a limited search and nothing shows up in the whole search of the car before getting to that box there is no probable cause to search your ammo box especially if where your stopped is on route to or from the range you tell them. At this point they would need a warrant I believe.

[s8n 14]

Thanks for all the responses . I guess what I was thinking was how does anyone get caught with NJ illegal weapons if they secure the weapon in a locked case.

[ajtesq 11]

If you give consent to a limited search and nothing shows up in the whole search of the car before getting to that box there is no probable cause to search your ammo box especially if where your stopped is on route to or from the range you tell them. At this point they would need a warrant I believe.

 

Most NJ police departments actually have a written consent form that they will ask you to sign when agreeing to a vehicle search. Do not sign the document, as it gives consent to a full search of the vehicle and all of the containers within. I understand that your question is purely hypothetical, but if you agree to a search of any kind you are opening a 'can of worms' that will never benefit you. If there is probable cause upon the stop for a vehicle search, the police will not ask for consent.

 

Although there is no case law that I am aware of in NJ on the matter, officers may check weapons for their own safety. Clearly, the weapon is inaccessbile if it is in a locked box in the trunk...but I do wonder if a court would uphold that during a legally valid search that an officer can open a locked firearms case to inspect whether or not the weapon is loaded. I did a quick search in westlaw and didn't find anything directly on point.

[KpdPipes 388]

Most NJ police departments actually have a written consent form that they will ask you to sign when agreeing to a vehicle search. Do not sign the document, as it gives consent to a full search of the vehicle and all of the containers within. I understand that your question is purely hypothetical, but if you agree to a search of any kind you are opening a 'can of worms' that will never benefit you. If there is probable cause upon the stop for a vehicle search, the police will not ask for consent.

 

Although there is no case law that I am aware of in NJ on the matter, officers may check weapons for their own safety. Clearly, the weapon is inaccessbile if it is in a locked box in the trunk...but I do wonder if a court would uphold that during a legally valid search that an officer can open a locked firearms case to inspect whether or not the weapon is loaded. I did a quick search in westlaw and didn't find anything directly on point.

 

Consent searches have been somewhat restricted after a few questionable cases over the past few years.....you need something to go on, you can't just rag-bag someone on the side of the road. 20-24 years ago??? Different story, especially if it was a known doper coming back over the bridge from the dealer strip.

[KpdPipes 388]

Thanks for all the responses . I guess what I was thinking was how does anyone get caught with NJ illegal weapons if they secure the weapon in a locked case.

 

because in almost EVERY case that "Unlawful" weapon charge is A: part and parcel to a larger issue. or B: NOT secured properly and is being transported lawfully or in plain view.

[s8n 14]

because in almost EVERY case that "Unlawful" weapon charge is A: part and parcel to a larger issue. or B: NOT secured properly and is being transported lawfully or in plain view.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking, but I'd also like to know if the driver can be required to open the locks or if they can remain secure till a warrant is issued?

[KpdPipes 388]

This is exactly what I was thinking, but I'd also like to know if the driver can be required to open the locks or if they can remain secure till a warrant is issued?

You can withdraw consent at any time, it's not a blanket thing.

[s8n 14]

You can withdraw consent at any time, it's not a blanket thing.

 

Thanks ,thats exactly what I was curious about.

[KpdPipes 388]

Thanks ,thats exactly what I was curious about.

Miranda is that same way...the ACTUAL Miranda warnings (not the television version) have a line that reads "You may stop answering questions at any time and invoke your right to remain silent or request an attorney"

 

Then again there is a huge percentage of the population that is convinced that an arrest is invalid if the Miranda warnings arent given.... Thanks Television.

[TacGuy911 25]

If you have nothing to hide then there is no reason not to consent.. Some people swear by telling cops no, however I can tell you that by saying no just makes you look guilty.. I have conducted numerous searches on vehicles where the driver was very polite and allowed the search.. Most times nothing comes out of it.. Why?? Because the guy had nothing to hide.. The times that we did find things it was because the driver thought his hiding spot was something no one ever thought of.. If you have a lock box in the trunk with gun you are following the law in how to transport.. As long as you have a reasonable excuse as to why you have it in the vehicle (example: going to/from range, gun smith, show, etc) you will be fine.. But if you have it stuffed under the front seat you will have a problem.. Just remember.. If the officer asks you to consent to search you have a right to say no.. But most officers will become even more suspicious by this and take the whole thing further.. If you have nothing to hide then you don't have to worry.. Cops aren't out there to screw you over.. Just doing the job they were hired to do.. A little cooperation goes a long way..

[Anselmo 87]

If you have nothing to hide then there is no reason not to consent.. Some people swear by telling cops no, however I can tell you that by saying no just makes you look guilty.. I have conducted numerous searches on vehicles where the driver was very polite and allowed the search.. Most times nothing comes out of it.. Why?? Because the guy had nothing to hide.. The times that we did find things it was because the driver thought his hiding spot was something no one ever thought of.. If you have a lock box in the trunk with gun you are following the law in how to transport.. As long as you have a reasonable excuse as to why you have it in the vehicle (example: going to/from range, gun smith, show, etc) you will be fine.. But if you have it stuffed under the front seat you will have a problem.. Just remember.. If the officer asks you to consent to search you have a right to say no.. But most officers will become even more suspicious by this and take the whole thing further.. If you have nothing to hide then you don't have to worry.. Cops aren't out there to screw you over.. Just doing the job they were hired to do.. A little cooperation goes a long way..

 

Invoking one's constitutional rights should NOT be seen making one look guilty.

[Col. Mortimer 11]

If you have nothing to hide then there is no reason not to consent.

 

This is not a good reason to give consent. First, how do you know you are not in violation of some law? Most people can cite only 10 laws and there are thousands. What if I forgot a box of hollow points in my trunk from my last visit to the range? I am in violation of the law. What if my teenage kid left his stash of marijuana in the car? Invoking your constitutional rights cannot be used as the reason for a search. Additionally, our rights were earned and protected with the lives of patriots. Why would be toss these rights away for the sake of convenience?

[savageshooter 10]

I'll take my Dad's advice and not consent to a search of my vehicle. Dad was an LEO for 25 years, and also a military veteran. He fought for the freedom and privacy we enjoy, and believed in the Bill of Rights.

 

If a Police Officer ever came back with a "If you have nothing to hide, there is no reason not to consent." I will tell him that's not the point. Being a law abiding citizen, I wouldn't have anything to hide, but I believe that those of us that do follow the law should not be treated as criminals.

[vladtepes 1,060]

If you have a lock box in the trunk with gun you are following the law in how to transport..

 

fixed for you..

 

If you have nothing to hide then there is no reason not to consent.. Some people swear by telling cops no, however I can tell you that by saying no just makes you look guilty.. I have conducted numerous searches on vehicles where the driver was very polite and allowed the search.. Most times nothing comes out of it.. Why?? Because the guy had nothing to hide.. The times that we did find things it was because the driver thought his hiding spot was something no one ever thought of.. If you have a lock box in the trunk with gun you are following the law in how to transport.. As long as you have a reasonable excuse as to why you have it in the vehicle (example: going to/from range, gun smith, show, etc) you will be fine.. But if you have it stuffed under the front seat you will have a problem.. Just remember.. If the officer asks you to consent to search you have a right to say no.. But most officers will become even more suspicious by this and take the whole thing further.. If you have nothing to hide then you don't have to worry.. Cops aren't out there to screw you over.. Just doing the job they were hired to do.. A little cooperation goes a long way..

 

I have declined search of my vehicle and was never threatened with escalated action.. they did not detain me for an excessive period of time.. if they felt I was guilty or not was irrelevant..to be blunt I did not want to waste my time on the side of the road..

[hd2000fxdl 422]

If you have nothing to hide then there is no reason not to consent.. Some people swear by telling cops no, however I can tell you that by saying no just makes you look guilty.. I have conducted numerous searches on vehicles where the driver was very polite and allowed the search.. Most times nothing comes out of it.. Why?? Because the guy had nothing to hide.. The times that we did find things it was because the driver thought his hiding spot was something no one ever thought of.. If you have a lock box in the trunk with gun you are following the law in how to transport.. As long as you have a reasonable excuse as to why you have it in the vehicle (example: going to/from range, gun smith, show, etc) you will be fine.. But if you have it stuffed under the front seat you will have a problem.. Just remember.. If the officer asks you to consent to search you have a right to say no.. But most officers will become even more suspicious by this and take the whole thing further.. If you have nothing to hide then you don't have to worry.. Cops aren't out there to screw you over.. Just doing the job they were hired to do.. A little cooperation goes a long way..

 

Why should I give up my rights if I have not done anything wrong??

 

Harry

[almiz111 26]

If you have nothing to hide then there is no reason not to consent.. Some people swear by telling cops no, however I can tell you that by saying no just makes you look guilty.. I have conducted numerous searches on vehicles where the driver was very polite and allowed the search.. Most times nothing comes out of it.. Why?? Because the guy had nothing to hide.. The times that we did find things it was because the driver thought his hiding spot was something no one ever thought of.. If you have a lock box in the trunk with gun you are following the law in how to transport.. As long as you have a reasonable excuse as to why you have it in the vehicle (example: going to/from range, gun smith, show, etc) you will be fine.. But if you have it stuffed under the front seat you will have a problem.. Just remember.. If the officer asks you to consent to search you have a right to say no.. But most officers will become even more suspicious by this and take the whole thing further.. If you have nothing to hide then you don't have to worry.. Cops aren't out there to screw you over.. Just doing the job they were hired to do.. A little cooperation goes a long way..

 

 

This sounds like 'only the cops are reasonable' and 'the citizens are not reasonable'. Or 'cops can be trusted' and 'citizens cannot be trusted'. Bull crap. So here is your job as hired -- get a warrant and do your thing. You have nothing to fear from an unsearched vehicle.

 

Thanks.

[Babyface Finster 45]

If you have nothing to hide then there is no reason not to consent.. Some people swear by telling cops no, however I can tell you that by saying no just makes you look guilty.. I have conducted numerous searches on vehicles where the driver was very polite and allowed the search.. Most times nothing comes out of it.. Why?? Because the guy had nothing to hide.. The times that we did find things it was because the driver thought his hiding spot was something no one ever thought of.. If you have a lock box in the trunk with gun you are following the law in how to transport.. As long as you have a reasonable excuse as to why you have it in the vehicle (example: going to/from range, gun smith, show, etc) you will be fine.. But if you have it stuffed under the front seat you will have a problem.. Just remember.. If the officer asks you to consent to search you have a right to say no.. But most officers will become even more suspicious by this and take the whole thing further.. If you have nothing to hide then you don't have to worry.. Cops aren't out there to screw you over.. Just doing the job they were hired to do.. A little cooperation goes a long way..

 

If you had probable cause you wouldn't need the driver's consent. If you didn't have probable cause, what was the purpose in searching the vehicles in the first place? Fishing trip? That sounds like more than "just doing the job" to me.

[e80hydro 120]

If you have nothing to hide then there is no reason not to consent.. Some people swear by telling cops no, however I can tell you that by saying no just makes you look guilty.. I have conducted numerous searches on vehicles where the driver was very polite and allowed the search.. Most times nothing comes out of it.. Why?? Because the guy had nothing to hide.. The times that we did find things it was because the driver thought his hiding spot was something no one ever thought of.. If you have a lock box in the trunk with gun you are following the law in how to transport.. As long as you have a reasonable excuse as to why you have it in the vehicle (example: going to/from range, gun smith, show, etc) you will be fine.. But if you have it stuffed under the front seat you will have a problem.. Just remember.. If the officer asks you to consent to search you have a right to say no.. But most officers will become even more suspicious by this and take the whole thing further.. If you have nothing to hide then you don't have to worry.. Cops aren't out there to screw you over.. Just doing the job they were hired to do.. A little cooperation goes a long way..

 

 

I wouldn't trust any cop who posts an arrogant response like the above. Judges don't issue seach warrants based solely on the fact that the requesting officer is an asshole.

[Soju 153]

If you have nothing to hide then there is no reason not to consent..

 

So if I asked you to consent to me searching your car that would be fine then, because after all, you have nothing to hide? Sure....that would fly. After all, it is everyones job to protect themselves. So if I think you are shady, then what is the difference between me searching your car and you searching my car? Because it is 'your job'? That is a load of crap. It is NOT your job to search peoples cars on whims because that person wasn't all happy and cheerful with you. You have as little right to search my car as I have to search yours, failing reasonable cause or a warrant.

 

It is disappointing that people in charge of upholding laws don't even understand those laws they are suppose to uphold... and then they talk about "just doing their job".

[Steve_G 51]

If you have nothing to hide then there is no reason not to consent.. Some people swear by telling cops no, however I can tell you that by saying no just makes you look guilty.. I have conducted numerous searches on vehicles where the driver was very polite and allowed the search.. Most times nothing comes out of it.. Why?? Because the guy had nothing to hide.. The times that we did find things it was because the driver thought his hiding spot was something no one ever thought of.. If you have a lock box in the trunk with gun you are following the law in how to transport.. As long as you have a reasonable excuse as to why you have it in the vehicle (example: going to/from range, gun smith, show, etc) you will be fine.. But if you have it stuffed under the front seat you will have a problem.. Just remember.. If the officer asks you to consent to search you have a right to say no.. But most officers will become even more suspicious by this and take the whole thing further.. If you have nothing to hide then you don't have to worry.. Cops aren't out there to screw you over.. Just doing the job they were hired to do.. A little cooperation goes a long way..

 

Only in nj do you need an excuse to excersize your rights.

[djg0770 481]

If you have a lock box in the trunk with gun you are following the law in how to transport..

 

No - you are EXCEEDING the law.

 

g.All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b.' date=' subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

 

Or means OR - not AND. If it's locked in the trunk and NOT in any kind of case or box - it's PERFECTLY LEGAL.

 

I wish that our LEO friends would TRY to learn this portion of the law.

[bulpup 98]

No - you are EXCEEDING the law.

 

 

 

Or means OR - not AND. If it's locked in the trunk and NOT in any kind of case or box - it's PERFECTLY LEGAL.

 

I wish that our LEO friends would TRY to learn this portion of the law.

 

 

No kiddin' Every now and then I get this little heart attack when I think "I have had my shotgun in a canvas bag in the trunk, thank God I didn't get pulled over."

 

 

Then I remember that not only is that legal, but I don't have to consent to a search. People keep confusing it.

[TacGuy911 25]

I think everyone needs to slow down.. First of all I don't think I have ever run into anyone who just had a gun floating around the trunk.. Everyone I have come into contact with has usually kept their rifle/handgun in a box/bag in the trunk.. I guess I was wrong to assume that most usually take care of their weapons and don't just leave them to bang around the trunk.. But that is besides the point.. Back to the search topic.. I am not saying that you should give up your rights or anything like that.. But remember.. We dont just stop cars and search for no reason whatsoever.. There is something that raised suspicion which is why we are checking you out.. In the area where I am located my statement holds true.. It is only the ones that say no to searches that have things to hide.. Anytime we had someone not give consent there always turned out to be something inside the vehicle.. I have also never had a complaint from anyone that didn't have something to hide.. If I searched a vehicle (with consent) and nothing turned up I apologize for the inconvenience and explain why everything was done.. I usually get a "No problem, thanks for doing your job".. But everyone is different.. You have a right in this country.. Some people like to exercise these rights all the time while other cooperate with law enforcement and have no problem with police searching their vehicle..

[mikelets456 78]

No kiddin' Every now and then I get this little heart attack when I think "I have had my shotgun in a canvas bag in the trunk, thank God I didn't get pulled over."

 

 

Then I remember that not only is that legal, but I don't have to consent to a search. People keep confusing it.

 

I have an SUV with no trunk but there is a storage area. If I lock the car doors is that "technically' in a locked trunk? I have transported rifles in a soft case... does that need to be locked? These NJ rules/laws are so vague it leaves a lot a wiggle room for the law and little for the citizen.

[halbautomatisch 60]

I think everyone needs to slow down.. First of all I don't think I have ever run into anyone who just had a gun floating around the trunk.. Everyone I have come into contact with has usually kept their rifle/handgun in a box/bag in the trunk.. I guess I was wrong to assume that most usually take care of their weapons and don't just leave them to bang around the trunk.. But that is besides the point.. Back to the search topic.. I am not saying that you should give up your rights or anything like that.. But remember.. We dont just stop cars and search for no reason whatsoever.. There is something that raised suspicion which is why we are checking you out.. In the area where I am located my statement holds true.. It is only the ones that say no to searches that have things to hide.. Anytime we had someone not give consent there always turned out to be something inside the vehicle.. I have also never had a complaint from anyone that didn't have something to hide.. If I searched a vehicle (with consent) and nothing turned up I apologize for the inconvenience and explain why everything was done.. I usually get a "No problem, thanks for doing your job".. But everyone is different.. You have a right in this country.. Some people like to exercise these rights all the time while other cooperate with law enforcement and have no problem with police searching their vehicle..

Why should anyone consent to a search of their vehicle? Nothing good will EVER come out of it for the person being searched. Exercising your rights should never make you look guilty.