922 Compliance (work in progress)

[vladtepes 1,060]

Many popular firearms are currently being imported in a "sporting configuration" this includes "low capacity" magazines, thumb hole stocks, etc., this to my understanding is done to ease importation of these firearms. When you make the decision to modify them back into their non-sporting configuration (pistol grip for example) you must reduce the amount of overall imported countable parts so that the rifle is comprised of to 10 or LESS to remain legal... this can be achieved in any way you see fit providing that the overall count is sub 10 and they are countable parts (listed below). There are various "worksheets" on the web that will count your parts for you if you are using a popular format (AK for example), but this can be applied to ANY imported gun..

 

Evaluate the individual firearm count how many "countable parts" it has, and then subtract from there to get to 10.

 

Parts count no matter if you add them, OR if the gun came with them. This means that if your gun did not come with a muzzle device, you do not count it.. but if you add it then it is counted.

 

The idea is as the gun sits "finished" in front of you there are 10 or less imported parts.

 

while you can use US made magazines to achieve legality I do not recomend it.. as then you are tied to only being able to use your "special magazines".. magazines for compliance would be a last ditch effort IMO...

 

Title 18 United States Code (USC) � 922® prohibits assembly of certain semiautomatic rifles and shotguns from imported parts. The implementing regulations in title 27, Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) part 178, � 178.39, provides that no person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 imported parts listed in paragraph © of this section, if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

 

The 20 parts listed in paragraph © are listed below.

 

Parts List

1. Frames, Receivers

2. Barrels

3. Barrel extensions

4. Mounting blocks

5. Muzzle attachments

6. Bolts

7. Bolt carriers

8. Operating rods

9. Gas piston

10. Trigger housing

11. Trigger

12. Hammer

13. Sear

14. Dis-connectors

15. Butt stocks

16. Pistol grips

17. Forearms, hand guards

18. Magazine bodies

19. Followers

20. Floor plates

[vladtepes 1,060]

Example:

 

 

 

Saiga 5.45 Imported Parts Count

 

1. Frames, Receivers

2. Barrels

3. Mounting blocks

4. Bolts

5. Bolt carriers

6. Gas piston

7. Trigger

8. Hammer

9. Dis-connectors

10. Butt stocks

11. Forearms, hand guards

12. Magazine bodies

13. Followers

14. Floor plates

 

 

Saiga 5.45 Modified Parts Count

 

1. Frames, Receivers

2. Barrels

3. Mounting blocks

4. Bolts

5. Bolt carriers

6. Gas piston

*. Trigger US Made

*. Hammer US Made

*. Dis-connectors US Made

*. Butt stocks US Made

*. Forearms, hand guards US Made

*. Pistol Grip US made

7. Magazine bodies

8. Followers

9. Floor plates

[lunker 274]

It is also a good practice to try and get the foreign made non-magazine related parts count down to 9, like Vlad did, so that there is no problem should someone challenge the nation of origin of one of your parts. Not every US Made part will be stamped in such as way as to be obvious to the uninformed observer.

[vladtepes 1,060]

It is also a good practice to try and get the foreign made non-magazine related parts count down to 9, like Vlad did, so that there is no problem should someone challenge the nation of origin of one of your parts. Not every US Made part will be stamped in such as way as to be obvious to the uninformed observer.

 

 

 

+1

 

I agree with this... 10 satisfies the law.. but on all of my guns I shoot for 9 if I can just so there is NO question..

[Mr.G 8]

So, 922 only applies to long guns and the "sporting rifles" that you get from dealers are legal until you start converting it. - Does this mean while you are in the process of conversion (which could take weeks if you don't have time and parts) you are still compliant or legal as long as you don't take the firearm outside your home? I know evil things (15+mag, suppressor, bayonet lug, etc) there is no way you can posses them even as a part. Time, parts, skill, this will not be an overnight process for me.

[vladtepes 1,060]

So, 922 only applies to long guns and the "sporting rifles" that you get from dealers are legal until you start converting it. - Does this mean while you are in the process of conversion (which could take weeks if you don't have time and parts) you are still compliant or legal as long as you don't take the firearm outside your home? I know evil things (15+mag, suppressor, bayonet lug, etc) there is no way you can posses them even as a part. Time, parts, skill, this will not be an overnight process for me.

 

 

I have spoken to the NJSP on several occasions regarding things like pinning stocks.. where for a short period of time you are technically breaking the law.. I have offered my interpretation to them.. and asked several questions.. and this is my understanding...

 

a gun is in an operable OR inoperable state.... if you are genuinely working on a gun.. it will be unloaded.. taken apart.. and in pieces.. as in an incomplete non functioning firearm.. it is my opinion and that of the officers I spoke to that at that point it would be unreasonable to be concerned about something like an unpinned stock (for example).. the gun is obviously not in working order... on the flip side... buy a 14in upper.. throw it on your AR with a loaded mag... and put your muzzle device in the safe.. claiming that you are in the process of getting ready to weld it on.. and you are asking for trouble.. because at that point you have a completely functional loaded firearm..

 

also.. DO NOT START THE WORK TILL YOU HAVE ALL YOUR COMPLIANCE PARTS... simple enough... you have enough parts to make the gun legal.. and it is in an obvious non working state.. while you are doing the work..

 

also.. a Saiga for example.. I can convert gun start to finish in 1.5 hours... and that accounts for time for the paint to dry.. lol so there is no reason it should take weeks..

[MarcR 0]

just to clarify the saiga 7.62x39 as shipped is legal? It only becomes illegal when I changing back into a non-sporting rifle( and not done correctly)?

[vladtepes 1,060]

just to clarify the saiga 7.62x39 as shipped is legal? It only becomes illegal when I changing back into a non-sporting rifle( and not done correctly)?

 

the Saiga as imported is legal for sale in the US..

 

the saiga as imported is legal for sale in NJ...

it is NOT a named illegal weapon

it is NOT substantially as defined by NJ law

 

you can legally modify the gun in NJ providing you follow both federal and state laws..

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I'm sorry, how does this apply to us? Last time I checked, the 922r dealt with importers, not owners. Not to mention, how can one prove that the parts on their second hand Saiga or WASR are actually meeting the parts count? Even more: how can one tell which parts were made by who? Some (like a Tapco G2) say 'made in usa', but most other parts (wood for instance) do not...

[vladtepes 1,060]

I'm sorry, how does this apply to us? Last time I checked, the 922r dealt with importers, not owners. Not to mention, how can one prove that the parts on their second hand Saiga or WASR are actually meeting the parts count? Even more: how can one tell which parts were made by who? Some (like a Tapco G2) say 'made in usa', but most other parts (wood for instance) do not...

 

apparently it has been that way for a LONG time..

922 actually had nothing to do with importers.. importers import guns..

the relevance to 922 was a means to circumvent the laws prohibiting individuals from modifying imported guns.. pretty sure it was to deal with people who were importing kits and building them here.. people would build these guns here.. to circumvent bans on guns.. if the gun was banned here then you could not import the gun in pieces and build it here to beat the ban.. but what you could do... was import pieces and make a "new gun" one made with enough US made parts.. it is convoluted.. but so are a lot of things..

 

sorry went off on a tangent..

 

the bottom line is..

guns are imported in a certain configuration.. OR in pieces..

as the gun sits that is the way it is.. legal in its imported sporting state.. OR banned completely..

922 compliance substitutes enough US parts where the gun is not considered the same gun anymore.. and thus not regulated under the same sporting regulations..

[DevsAdvocate 112]

apparently it has been that way for a LONG time..

922 actually had nothing to do with importers.. importers import guns..

the relevance to 922 was a means to circumvent the laws prohibiting individuals from modifying imported guns.. pretty sure it was to deal with people who were importing kits and building them here.. people would build these guns here.. to circumvent bans on guns.. if the gun was banned here then you could not import the gun in pieces and build it here to beat the ban.. but what you could do... was import pieces and make a "new gun" one made with enough US made parts.. it is convoluted.. but so are a lot of things..

 

sorry went off on a tangent..

 

the bottom line is..

guns are imported in a certain configuration.. OR in pieces..

as the gun sits that is the way it is.. legal in its imported sporting state.. OR banned completely..

922 compliance substitutes enough US parts where the gun is not considered the same gun anymore.. and thus not regulated under the same sporting regulations..

 

If that's the case, then how can it even be proven after it was imported? Not all replaced parts carry a 'made in usa' tag on them... I only ask this because on a whim, I began to search for 922r arrests/convictions (of an individual) to see if the Fed ever tried to make a case of it and came up empty. It appears to me that it's not only difficult to enforce, but difficult to prove... especially if you buy a 'once' imported rifle/shotgun, and buy it second-handed or third-handed.

 

Hence, why I think it only applies to importers, where rifles arrive in one configuration (sporting) to meet US law, and then are modified by the importers for public sale.

 

Aren't automobile imports regulated in a similar manner where at least 10% of parts need to be US-made? Does you car suddenly become illegal if you change those 10% of parts for foreign ones?

 

I don't mean to butt heads with you here in regards to 922r compliance, but I am unsure of how this applies to folks like you and I since we're not importing rifles/shotguns, but are simply end-users.

[vladtepes 1,060]

If that's the case, then how can it even be proven after it was imported? Not all replaced parts carry a 'made in usa' tag on them... I only ask this because on a whim, I began to search for 922r arrests/convictions (of an individual) to see if the Fed ever tried to make a case of it and came up empty. It appears to me that it's not only difficult to enforce, but difficult to prove... especially if you buy a 'once' imported rifle/shotgun, and buy it second-handed or third-handed.

 

Hence, why I think it only applies to importers, where rifles arrive in one configuration (sporting) to meet US law, and then are modified by the importers for public sale.

 

Aren't automobile imports regulated in a similar manner where at least 10% of parts need to be US-made? Does you car suddenly become illegal if you change those 10% of parts for foreign ones?

 

I don't mean to butt heads with you here in regards to 922r compliance, but I am unsure of how this applies to folks like you and I since we're not importing rifles/shotguns, but are simply end-users.

 

I am not aware of ANY prosecutions based on 922.. it does not change its existence..

[blksheep 466]

I am not aware of ANY prosecutions based on 922.. it does not change its existence..

 

I really appreciate your knowledge on the subject of Saiga's.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I am not aware of ANY prosecutions based on 922.. it does not change its existence..

 

Right... the only instances I've read about where it is an issue is with importers like Century International or Russian-American Armory... or anyone importing Benelli shotguns.

 

As I mentioned, how would this even be enforced at the user-level? How can it even be proven? Do folks with 922r rifles have certificates that grant them some protection?

 

Without some evidence of end-user enforcement, I don't really think this is something we need to worry about... but YMMV.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Found some more info here with a letter straight from the BATF: LINK

 

Again, up your interpretation...

[vladtepes 1,060]

Found some more info here with a letter straight from the BATF: LINK

 

Again, up your interpretation...

 

while that letter could change with the wind.. i guess the bottom line is this..

 

if YOU modify the gun (significantly change the gun *sporting to non sporting for example*) then YOU need to be sure you adhere to 922

if you BUY a gun then it might be less of an issue..

 

as I stated.. 922 is somewhat of a boogie man.. I am aware of NO actual prosecution of individual firearm owners in relation to 922..

but that does not stop me from being careful..

 

there is also no doubt in my mind that if you bought a bunch of 30 round AK magazines in PA and then buried them in your NJ yard you would live the remainder of your life without issue (the police are not going to come metal detect your yard.. lol) doesn't change my opinion that it is a bad idea..

[DevsAdvocate 112]

while that letter could change with the wind.. i guess the bottom line is this..

 

if YOU modify the gun (significantly change the gun *sporting to non sporting for example*) then YOU need to be sure you adhere to 922

if you BUY a gun then it might be less of an issue..

 

as I stated.. 922 is somewhat of a boogie man.. I am aware of NO actual prosecution of individual firearm owners in relation to 922..

but that does not stop me from being careful..

 

there is also no doubt in my mind that if you bought a bunch of 30 round AK magazines in PA and then buried them in your NJ yard you would live the remainder of your life without issue (the police are not going to come metal detect your yard.. lol) doesn't change my opinion that it is a bad idea..

 

Understood. Figured I'd post the letter for reference here since it's one of the few 'official' indications of what the Feds think regarding 922r...

[vladtepes 1,060]

Understood. Figured I'd post the letter for reference here since it's one of the few 'official' indications of what the Feds think regarding 922r...

 

I saved the letter to my PC.. I actually appreciate the effort.. because it does shed a lot of light on the subject..

knowledge is always good to have..

 

I really think 922 is one of those silly things where NO the range officer is not going to investigate your gun and call the feds in the arrest you.. BUT if you ever run into another snag it might be an issue.. I am a realist and the lack of prosecution does indicate that having an issue is extremely unlikely.. but considering you get 3 US parts JUST from the fire control group.. it is a pretty easy law to follow..