I have no words...

[joejaxx 38]

for the TOTAL SHOW OF IGNORANCE AND DISREGARD for firearm safety in this video:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kneuscttWgU

 

Actually I do have three words for "American Defense Enterprises": WHISKY TANGO FOXTROT

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Yeah, guns are dangerous. In the wrong hands! They seemed to know what they were doing, although I wouldn't get involved in some of that stuff.

[papercutninja 24]

So...are these airsofters with real guns?!

[TheMan 45]

WTF at 1:33??? ok do you know how many accidental deaths could have been caused if someone would have made a wrong turn during this so called training.

[BCeagle 12]

I thought you were never supposed to go full retard?

 

WTF 1:05 made my jaw drop and I was praying they were using blanks at 1:30 (although I wouldnt trust these assholes with blanks)

[MarkWVU02 47]

What they don't tell you is 16 people died in the filming of this promo...seriously wtf?

[Tosser 61]

Guns are dangerous. So is driving your car 80mph 12" away from someone going the other direction 80mph, we do this daily...

 

 

Well trained people know to pull the trigger when their sights are on taget... Where other people are is of no consequence unless they are infront of your sights.

[vjf915 456]

Although I'm fairly impressed with the talent, I will NEVER find myself doing this kind of crap. 1:30 just baffled the hell out of me, and so did the end in the "shoot houses".

[jermz1987 243]

That chick is hot.

[tony357 386]

That chick is hot.

 

good eye jermz..

 

big trust between shooters..

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Some games will get you killed comes to mind.

 

Oh, and your right about the chick.

 

Harry

[Krdshrk 3,877]

That level of trust only comes with training... though I would never take any risks like that, myself.

[vladtepes 1,060]

my level of skill would never reach a point where I would feel confident enough to shoot like that... with that said.. as others have stated, I don't find it all that shocking... there is a difference between a drunk hillbilly discharging a shotgun with several people to his front, and properly trained professionals shooting like that.. doesn't mean it is not dangerous.. but there is a difference between dangerous and reckless.. IMO..

[bulpup 98]

Looks like well trained people training for combat and to work as a team. Whats the issue?

 

 

You think these guys never practiced live fire drills like that?

[bbk 188]

I personally don't think the video shows a total disregard for firearms safety (total being the keyword). If people train for a purpose, and they trust the people the they work with, these types of drills aren't mind-boggling. bulpup makes that apparent with the very real training that goes on every day with really any military around the world. Would I chomp at the bit to train with these strangers? No way, but that's also because 1. I don't have a need to sharpen that tool and 2. I, obviously, don't trust them well enough.

 

My issue though with the video is that what is the purpose ultimately of the video? Which audience does it target? Maybe it's because I have a certain prejudice against point-shooting, but a lot of those drills seemed "showy" in a way-- not saying they aren't feasible in a real gunfight (that's a totally different topic, as I agree you must do whatever you can to win). And if so, this just seems like a really, really pointless video as it seemingly alienates every audience out there that actually cares about firearms (mall ninjas and non-firearm owners being the only ones that seem like they would be impressed).

On the other hand, and, admittedly, this is not completely relevant, but maybe this video will inspire people who use their firearms for self-defense purposes to actually train with a purpose. Standing at a static line shooting at paper targets, maybe under some shade, with a steady, rested heart beat isn't really a good way to gauge one's ability to actually react to a dynamic situation.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I personally don't think the video shows a total disregard for firearms safety (total being the keyword). If people train for a purpose, and they trust the people the they work with, these types of drills aren't mind-boggling. bulpup makes that apparent with the very real training that goes on every day with really any military around the world. Would I chomp at the bit to train with these strangers? No way, but that's also because 1. I don't have a need to sharpen that tool and 2. I, obviously, don't trust them well enough.

 

My issue though with the video is that what is the purpose ultimately of the video? Which audience does it target? Maybe it's because I have a certain prejudice against point-shooting, but a lot of those drills seemed "showy" in a way-- not saying they aren't feasible in a real gunfight (that's a totally different topic, as I agree you must do whatever you can to win). And if so, this just seems like a really, really pointless video as it seemingly alienates every audience out there that actually cares about firearms (mall ninjas and non-firearm owners being the only ones that seem like they would be impressed).

On the other hand, and, admittedly, this is not completely relevant, but maybe this video will inspire people who use their firearms for self-defense purposes to actually train with a purpose. Standing at a static line shooting at paper targets, maybe under some shade, with a steady, rested heart beat isn't really a good way to gauge one's ability to actually react to a dynamic situation.

 

I could not watch the video with sound.. so I am at a disadvantage..

 

being someone who RARELY stands at a line and shoots I agree with you.. moving and shooting is NOT like standing at a line and shooting.. but while I personally move and shoot.. there are not real live living targets in front of me.. lol

 

the ONLY concern.. is showing highly practiced drills like this without first disclaiming the amount of time and practice (and danger) required to do all this MIGHT encourage that untrained individual and his buddy to run out and "play army" trying to mimic these drills..

[KpdPipes 388]

That's called "The difference between the REAL world, and the Square range" There was nothing unsafe about it, from the appearance all of those involved were very experienced and had worked/trained together before.

[bulpup 98]

 

My issue though with the video is that what is the purpose ultimately of the video? Which audience does it target? Maybe it's because I have a certain prejudice against point-shooting, but a lot of those drills seemed "showy" in a way-- not saying they aren't feasible in a real gunfight (that's a totally different topic, as I agree you must do whatever you can to win). And if so, this just seems like a really, really pointless video as it seemingly alienates every audience out there that actually cares about firearms (mall ninjas and non-firearm owners being the only ones that seem like they would be impressed).

 

The purpose is advertising, but not just via youtube surfing.

 

Although this video was likley found by clicking on a linked video when watching youtube or as a result of a youtube search, the people that made that video are selling their training.

 

First, click the name of the "person" that uploaded the video and you get this.

ADE Youtube channel

 

Or follow the link in the video

 

http://americandefenseenterprises.com

 

Notice the video that opens right on the home page.

 

Here's the thing, just because it was found on youtube doesn't mean it was created simply to be "surfed" to on Youtube. Youtube is a free video hosting service and people use it embed video on their own websites. In other words, If a company wants to make a webpage to bring in customers but doesn't want to spend the cash to have a dedicated host server, they upload to youtube and then embed in their webpage.

 

voila

http://www.americandefenseenterprises.com/videos.htm

 

Then when you look at their webpage and their hosted video you see this;

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9wZzx58mTE

 

SO, we in the forum arrived at the video by some random search, but the intention of the video was likely meant to be included in their website as a first priority, found on youtube as a tertiary.

 

Class dismissed

[Shane45 807]

It may appear dangerous to those not used to seeing team live fire training. My isue wasnt safety although I may disagree with some of the "tactics" displayed. I will say that the vid did have a bit of a mall ninja essence to it though

[Anselmo 87]

Reminds of a fancy choreographed karate demonstration.

[bbk 188]

It's obviously about advertising, that's a given bulpup-- still doesn't answer the ultimate purpose of the video itself. The given fact that it is a video posted on YouTube following other trainers (Magpul, Grey Group, Daniel Defense/LAV, Kyle Lamb/VTAC, etc) indicates that ADE (who I am familiar with) is trying to milk the proverbial "tactical"-cow right now (especially since Magpul has lost some steam since Mr. Haley's departure).

 

These facts still do not describe the ultimate purpose of the video itself. As it has already been said, most civilian shooters are up in arms about live-fire, team-based exercises. And to most professionals, the tactics and drills shown are not really too practical. Did ADE purposely make themselves look as ninja as possible as a means of distancing themselves from other training groups as a hope to rake in more profit? Or do they legitimately believe in their tactics? (I don't know which one of those would bother me more.)

 

Again, I have no qualms with live-fire training, as it is necessary for certain professionals. What bothers me in the end is that some idiots who are not trained and don't need this type of training are going to think this is "13337!1111!" and try this in their backyard, and then there are going to be multiple GSWs. My concern in this case not necessarily being the idiots, but the fact that they end up hurting the whole [firearms] community. So, I suppose my issue is that this video, with it's murky purpose, advertises what? To be a raging idiot?

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Hey, whatever floats your boat. Some people are content with going to a shooting line, standing there and punching holes through paper. And some want more, and some want alot more. And some want that! God bless'em!

[Sixtytwo327 14]

These facts still do not describe the ultimate purpose of the video itself. As it has already been said, most civilian shooters are up in arms about live-fire, team-based exercises. And to most professionals, the tactics and drills shown are not really too practical. Did ADE purposely make themselves look as ninja as possible as a means of distancing themselves from other training groups as a hope to rake in more profit? Or do they legitimately believe in their tactics? (I don't know which one of those would bother me more.)

 

Thank you! I can’t tell you how glad I am to hear other shooters call out this kind of Hollywood garbage. If ADE were advertising those videos like Wushu (as in, these are exhibitions of skill inspired by combat but intended as performance art) I’d have a lot more respect. I don’t think that’s the case.

[raz-0 1,259]

The video isn't that shocking. The shoot house portion looks pretty normal for team training, although it is hard to say withough being able to see it without the wall obstructing the view of most of what is going on.

 

The main thing that seems off is that there seems to be a pretty wide gap in skill levels with the various guns in terms of shooting performance fro the degree to which they were pushing the limit on showing off with muzzle discipline. Also, on some of the muzzle discipline exercises, it looks like there were bystanders wandering around in the back getting swept during a live fire exercise. that jsut seems like unnecessary risk IMO. You don't want muzzle discipline to be learned in a real life scenario, so you have to train. That doesn't mean that you just ignore making the range as safe as possible, especially for those not shooting at the time.

[Shane45 807]

"Did ADE purposely make themselves look as ninja as possible as a means of distancing themselves from other training groups as a hope to rake in more profit?"

 

In my opinion YES.

 

I have been in a number of discussions with many industry prefessionals and manufacturers and we all agree, the mall ninja is in fact driving the market right now. The question most of us ask ourselves is if we are willing to whore out to this crowd? Most of us answer no....most of us!

[Babaganoosh 192]

Like someone else said, it looks like a choreographed karate match or dance show. That's about it.

[tbtrout 141]

Nothing wrong with live fire training. The world does not take place in front of a left and right line. We are our own worse safety nazi enemies.

[bulpup 98]

You're missing my point. Advertising yes, but it isn't just "posted to YouTube," it is hosted on Youtube for use on their website.

 

Marketing, advertising. Capitalism. If these are real drills that they run then, there they are, on display.

 

Rest assured I see your point. Flashy and trashy to get the gomers to drop some cash and train with the SEALS.

 

But this is a video the assumes the viewer is a pro that wants to get better. That's why I am making a point to say that it was meant to be shown on their website, not just "posted on Youtube." Its just how media works. Free video hosting on YT is embedable on the webpage, yet also searchable on youtube.

 

Personally, I think if some "mall Ninja," wants to drop some cash for this kind of training then more power to them. At least it is proper training.

 

If they are going to do it at home then let them shoot themselves. Stupid is as stupid does.

[bulpup 98]

Like someone else said, it looks like a choreographed karate match or dance show. That's about it.

 

 

Its all in the editing. I bet you anything they gave it to (paid) someone to edit it and the instructors had little input except to say "hey thats's cool! THanks!"

[Ray Ray 3,566]

"Did ADE purposely make themselves look as ninja as possible as a means of distancing themselves from other training groups as a hope to rake in more profit?"

 

In my opinion YES.

 

I have been in a number of discussions with many industry prefessionals and manufacturers and we all agree, the mall ninja is in fact driving the market right now. The question most of us ask ourselves is if we are willing to whore out to this crowd? Most of us answer no....most of us!

 

Shane, as a fellow mall ninja I'm confused. You do know that everyone here on this forum is a mall ninja, some more than others. You make it sound as if your better than "us" in the higher up in mall ninja realm. Think about it, having a light on a gun 5 years ago was "mall ninja" stuff. Now it's almost a must on HD guns.