Officer suspended after leaving assault rifle

[Malsua 1,422]

It was a .50cal. I spoke to a local township officer who is a family friend and he confirmed the media statements about the .50cal, as well as other AR's at his apt and such.

 

 

50 cal does not mean .50 bmg. Are you saying it was .50 BMG AR? Aren't those single shot?

 

.50 Beowulf is more likely.

[Old School 611]

Active shooter is exactly the scenario I had in mind. Rather have it and not need it than the other way around. The need doesnt have to be frequest, it just needs to be once. Id rather have one patrol officer on scene armed with an AR running down an active shooter than a swat team a half hour out. But this is simply my NON expert opinion on the subject.

 

 

Shane- Respectfully, This is for you and Jon. These single acts of heroism are few and far in between. I see the lone LEO in such a situation

gathering info on the situation and calling for back-up. Not charging to the sound of the guns.

[Old School 611]

Course of action was appropriate. Punish him, then get him back out there.

 

As for cops having AR's, I'm all for it. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

 

 

Dan- that was my comment on page one...

[Old School 611]

Devils Advocate, let me play a little devils advocate . As a taxpayer would you rather see well trained, well equiped officers OR the new fancy schmancy camera's with OCR software that reads plates around the entire patrol car in case there is some secondary tax revenue to be had? In my mind this is a topic onto its self but govt has in some ways turned law enforcement into tax revenue. In my view this is simply wrong. When gismos win out over training, the corner has been turned and revanue has become the priority......

 

Shane that is perverted... money should be saved and budgets cut to eliminate all unnecessary BS.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

It was a .50cal. I spoke to a local township officer who is a family friend and he confirmed the media statements about the .50cal, as well as other AR's at his apt and such.

 

No shots were fired. If shots would have been fired, that township has back up AR's which would have been quickly implemented. Now if they didn't have bigger guns, and were left with pistols, then you as well as I know that things would not have been good.

 

Do all the investigating you want, but you're still not going to stop these sort of events. There should be money invested in not only the detective/investigating side, but also firearm training side as well.

 

To what end? Patrol officers are not soldiers, nor should they be equipped as such. We have SWAT teams for the big messes.

 

Even incidents like the North Hollywood shoot-out were completely mishandled by the police. Even in the aftermath, the solution they came up with: give cops M-16s began a long trend of police militarization, but didn't inherently translate into improved policing.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

An American's enthusiasm for law and order is directly proportional to the degree to which he believes his personal safety or his livelihood is threatened. When the perceived threat recedes, so does his willingness to be policed.

 

America is the most underpoliced nation on earth. The average American spends his life without any but casual contact with policemen - except for the ubiquitous traffic cops enforcing ridiculously low speed limits that Americans insist are necessary and yet almost universally ignore. Many law-abiding citizens have never in their lives spoken to a policeman, and the vast majority have never suffered the indignity of contact with policemen performing their duty.

 

No paramilitary police patrol American streets. No secret police monitor telephone conversations or scruitinize mail or hire neighbors to tattle. No policeman calls an American to account for slandering the government or the president or writing scurrilous letters to editors or politicans.

-Stephen Coonts

[KpdPipes 388]

Nope. But I can easily do that with a shotgun. Which police are issued with already and costs quite a bit less than outfitting them with AR-15s and all that other stuff.

 

Wow yet another person who knows more about doing my effing career than i do...Where are all of you Wunderkind when the hiring starts???

[Dan 177]

Dan- that was my comment on page one...

 

Old School, I guess that means I agree with you!

[Dan 177]

Shooting a shotgun at a hostage shielded bad guy.

 

Apparently it can be done..why, I have no idea but here's some evidence that some people somewhere train for this!

My link

[CageFighter 236]

you guys are MISSING the point.

 

Active shooter + NJ CCW permit holderS = threat ELIMINATED!

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

LEO should absolutely have immediate access to rifles.. there have been countless instances where LEO faced threats that require a rifle...

with that said.. access to these tools requires SERIOUS responsibility.. and someone who can not handle the responsibility of firearms should NOT be allowed around them.. since this individual is LEO he really SHOULD be **** canned (sorry if you disagree).. I will not sit here and ramble off the what ifs.. there is no reason to beat a dead horse.. but NO ONE is special.. not me.. not your.. not LEO.. so no special rules for anything.. if there were some extenuating circumstances that led to losing a gun (officer down in a shooting for example..) the sure.. no reason to crucify the officer.. things happen.. but "cleaning out your trunk and forgetting" is not even close to a reasonable reason to lose ANY weapon..

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

This whole thing has the ring of a story that has more to it than we're being told.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Wow yet another person who knows more about doing my effing career than i do...Where are all of you Wunderkind when the hiring starts???

 

Can I be a cop and choose not to enforce laws which I don't agree with? Probably not.

 

Until then, I'll be damned if I'm on the side which carries out the unconstitutional laws passed down by the State with little to no objection.

[PK90 3,570]

.. since this individual is LEO he really SHOULD be **** canned (sorry if you disagree)..

I do. Ask me why sometime.

[mipafox 438]

I've seen this happen overseas in the military.

 

I know we are all super-diggity gun responsible people, but, let's face it. This is not Ivory Coast, Iraq, or Mexico. The first person that finds this rifle is not going to automatically turn it on us in anger. If kids find it they won't shoot themselves.

 

It's a big deal, he should be ashamed of himself, discipline is required, but this crap has to happen once in a while with all the people and all the guns out there. NO, this has never happened to me. In case you were thinking that.

 

I'm not excusing the behavior. I still can't get rid of the "sensitive items" mentality myself, so I take it seriously. I'm just saying that there's little chance this would have caused a dangerous situation. It’s just a gun. Guns have been found laying around for hundreds of years.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I do. Ask me why sometime.

 

 

next time I see you.. I promise I will ask..

 

you know I have nothing but respect for LEO.. but for me.. there is not a single firearm principle more important than weapon management/retention.. the reason being is.. without that simple first step ALL of the other firearms rules go out the window.. because once the firearm is out of your direct control.. you must then invest all of your faith in the individual who you have allowed access..

 

my first firearms purchase? a safe that weighs more than you and me combined..

why? because I love guns.. and I am gonna have them.. but I am sure as hell not going to make it easy for some other individual to gain access..

 

leaving a rifle within the reach of literally anyone is grossly negligent..

 

now there ARE 3 sides to every story... and if there are additional facts in this situation.. then I stand corrected.. but the simple "got distracted and forgot"

doesn't cut it for me.. what if I am a surgeon and forget a scalpel inside my patient.. what if I am a pilot and forget to put down the landing gear... I am not singling out LEO here.. there are MANY jobs out there that demand %100 responsibility... not JUST LEO.. and if anyone dropped the ball in any of those other situations they would be sued.. loose their practice.. they would not get a slap on the wrist..

 

so like I said.. nothing but respect for you and LEO in general.. but that "I got distracted" **** is just not cutting it for me..

 

I will respectfully agree to disagree.. (but I will still ask you when I see you.. lol)

[diamondd817 827]

Suspended "WITH" Pay -- Isn't that more like a gift than a punishment?

 

If I F--- up, I don't get paid for it.

 

I never understood that one, and I can't say I agree with it.

[mipafox 438]

DevsAdvocate, I need to ask... Let's say your daughter was at Morristown High School, and a nutjob started shooting kids there. Do you want the police to surround the area and wait for the SWAT team(~45-60min), move in with a 4" long barrel and mediocre precision, or move in with a rifle. If your daughter's life was on the line, what sort of response would you want?

 

I'd want a teacher to pop the dude since they are inside, know what is going on, know who the bad guy is, know who the civilian good guys are, and will take care of it immediately without concern for their own safety and without popping any innocent kids by accident.

[vjf915 456]

I'm sorry......"let the teachers carry" is just a piss poor idea. Teachers are there to TEACH OUR KIDS. You're sitting there claiming that police officers aren't soldiers or perfect marksmen, and that an AR15 is too much of a stretch for them. Well our teachers are a HELL of a lot further from soldiers than our police officers.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I'm sorry......"let the teachers carry" is just a piss poor idea. Teachers are there to TEACH OUR KIDS. You're sitting there claiming that police officers aren't soldiers or perfect marksmen, and that an AR15 is too much of a stretch for them. Well our teachers are a HELL of a lot further from soldiers than our police officers.

 

They're more than that to parents and their children. For the hours they're in the class, the teacher is their guardian. What good is a guardian if they are forcibly disarmed by the state?

 

Does this mean it should be mandatory to arm teachers? Nope. But it can be encouraged.

 

But hey, we all saw how VT and Columbine worked out... I bet more AR-15s and body armor for the police would've really helped there.

 

Police are simply a response... a clean-up crew in these scenarios. The best bet is to condition our society to be in a certain threat level and have people be prepared to defend themselves accordingly.

[mipafox 438]

I'm sorry......"let the teachers carry" is just a piss poor idea. Teachers are there to TEACH OUR KIDS.

 

I didn't mean teachers, I meant adults. Everybody. But, yes, I pointed to teachers for first response, so now I am clarifying.

 

Do you think “let grocery store baggers carry” is a piss poor idea? Who do you think should be allowed to carry? I doubt I’m on your approved list. Maybe you should try out for NJ Superior Court Judge.

 

Or do you just think school teachers are the only people amongst us too stupid and irresponsible to carry firearms?

 

You're sitting there claiming that police officers aren't soldiers or perfect marksmen, and that an AR15 is too much of a stretch for them. Well our teachers are a HELL of a lot further from soldiers than our police officers.

 

I never said any of that. None.

 

I did say that a teacher in the room with a firearm would probably make things turn out better than cops running in blind and cleaning up bodies. Especially 10 minutes to 30 minutes too late. And I think that would be true in most cases.

 

 

I get it. You're good with "Shall Issue," as long as it means YOU. It's not that uncommon of a philosophy. Disturbing, but not uncommon.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I'm sorry......"let the teachers carry" is just a piss poor idea. Teachers are there to TEACH OUR KIDS. You're sitting there claiming that police officers aren't soldiers or perfect marksmen, and that an AR15 is too much of a stretch for them. Well our teachers are a HELL of a lot further from soldiers than our police officers.

 

I do not think that we should push teachers to carry implying that they should intervene in a crisis & try to play hero.. I would never want someone not wanting to carry a firearm to be coxed in any way to do so..

 

but in the same breath..

 

I do no think that YOU should lose your right to carry a gun because you happen to work in a bank... in the same sense that I do not believe in "gun free school zones"... I believe a policy of mass firearms banning within the school system does nothing but paint a giant bulls eye on every single school... all of these "school shootings" how many people you think would go shooting up the school if they knew the science teacher was packing a 45.. or for that matter.. if they didn't know.. when you do not mass ban guns.. you make it into a guessing game for the criminals.. who is armed? who isn't? while I support a work environments right to regulate what goes on within.. I am not a supporter of "gun free areas" in any way.. because it simply does nothing to curtail violence.. law abiding citizens do not go around shooting up schools.. and crazy psychos are not deterred by legal punishment.. is a "gun free school zone" going to stop some loon from coming through the front door blasting off rounds through his shotgun?

[Jimbo1911 0]

I say that whoops I got distracted and left my taxpayer paid for rifle sitting there while I drive away is a pretty bad excuse.Fire his forgetful arse.Pretty important thing he forgot there.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Understood. But from the variety of "active shooter" incidents that we've seen across the nation, the SOP for most police is simply as follows:

1. Establish perimeter

2. Wait for SWAT team

 

 

You describe what happened at Colombine. People kept dying while waiting for SWAT. Engaging the active shooter with the first responding units is a more effective tactic to minimize loss of life.

 

The answer is more guns in the right hands, and those hands are yours and mine.

 

So you're volunteering to patrol schools with your AR or am I reading that wrong? You should have an AR or AK and the police shouldn't?

 

It also means more money in investigative skills, not shooting skills.

 

This would be so the police can figure out where the shooter was standing when they killed all the people they shot? Police shooting skills are the object of so many jokes on gun forums and you're advocating police don't have more. It's much easier to hit with a rifle whatever your skill level is.

 

Allow teachers and faculty to be armed, and control the portals entering and exiting the school itself.

 

They're more than that to parents and their children. For the hours they're in the class, the teacher is their guardian. What good is a guardian if they are forcibly disarmed by the state?

 

Yeah, sure. Send this proposal to the NJEA and see what they say. Do you think they'd agree with you?

 

To what end? Patrol officers are not soldiers, nor should they be equipped as such.

 

They aren't soldiers and neither are most of the people on this forum. Police shouldn't have them but the average citizen should? You are losing any argument criticizing stupid laws like NJ's AWB with logic like that.

 

But hey, we all saw how VT and Columbine worked out... I bet more AR-15s and body armor for the police would've really helped there

 

If police had immediate response policy to an active shooter at the time many lives may have been saved both those of victims already shot and those that were shot while waiting for SWAT.

 

 

 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. When you formulate opinions on flawed thinking that's dangerous. It seems on every gun forum there are those that know way more about how police should operate and what they should be armed without any concept of what they are talking about. When I was a LE firearms instructor I encouraged use of long guns (870s, M4s, MP5s, etc) whenever anyone was going out on anything where a shooting was possible. Many times mere display of the long guns were enough to make the bad guys give up (who willing to fight it out if you came only with handgun).

 

The bravado of saying "I can make that shot with a pistol" or "I shoot better than most cops anyway" go down the toilet in a genuine shooting situation.

 

As far as the guy losing the rifle, punish him and lets carry on.

[Shane45 807]

One other point this early am before I head out the door. It doesnt have to be an AR!!! I know there are departments out there that have been issued Rugers.

[Shane45 807]

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/ayoob62.html

 

http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/ruger-mini-14-mini-30/81804-police-le-corrections-use-mini-14-a-3.html

[vjf915 456]

Who do you think should be allowed to carry?

 

My first post wasn't directed at you....it was directed at whoever made the comment about making teachers carry. I think you slightly misinterpreted my post though. Anybody that WANTS to and is not excluded because of a criminal background should be able to carry. Teachers? Yes. Grocery store baggers? Yes. Garbage men? Yes. I have no issue whatsoever with ALLOWING people to carry. What I do have the issue with is MAKING teachers carry. That seemed to be what the suggestion was, whoever made it. I don't think it's fair to take teachers, who want to(well most of them do) help shape our future adults, and tell them that they MUST carry a loaded firearm every single day. If they want to? Hell take part of the school budget and pay for their class, permit, and firearm. YES I agree with you 100%, they are the children's guardians, but that doesn't mean getting into a gunfight, there are other ways they can help the kids. If the teacher WANTS to, I'm all for it....but I am highly against FORCING somebody to do something.

[djg0770 481]

Teachers are there to TEACH OUR KIDS.

 

And in many cases they suck at that too...

[Malsua 1,422]

Teachers and their aids in Israel are armed. If they can handle it, we can handle it. It may be compulsory over there, but here, voluntary is enough.