US Military Aiming for a New Pistol to Replace the M9

[GRIZ 3,369]

The current issue of the Army Times has an article on current plans to replace the M9. The Army has adopted the Air Force's Modular Handgun System proposal which has been approved by the Joint Requirements Oversight Council but hasn't made much headway. The Army plan is at HQS waiting for approval but of course the biggest consideration is having the money to replace pistols with current DoD cutbacks.

 

Among the considerations for the new pistols are:

 

1. "Increasing the permanent wound channel" which may mean a bigger caliber than 9mm.

 

2. When clearing a jam soldiers often engage the slide mounted safety without knowing it until they try to fire.

 

3. The M9s open slide allows dirt to enter the pistol.

 

4. The lack of a modular grip, intergrated rail, and night sights.

 

5. The inability to surpress.

 

6. Increased service life to 25,000 rds (M9s were required to have a service life of 5000 rds. They have a average service life of 17,500 without a stoppage although there are some (12)that have gone as much as 168,000 rds).

 

The current contenders according to the Army Times are:

 

1. Glock 22 (.40)

2. Glock 37 (45 GAP)

3. S&W M&P (9mm or.40 or 45ACP)

4. SIG P229 (9mm)

5. H&K P2000 (9mm or .40)

6. Beretta 96 (.40)

7. Beretta 92A1 (9mm)

8. SIG 226 (9mm)

9. Glock 17 (9mm)

10. Beretta PX4 Storm (.40)

 

That's 13 different guns when you count the multiple calibers.

 

What do you guys think?

[Old School 611]

10 potential contenders and three of them are GLOCKs.....

 

I told you so.....

[axeman_g 128]

Where is the fnusg. 45? That list sux.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Where is the fnusg. 45? That list sux.

 

and the XD or XDm

or 1911

or Sig P220

or Taurus 24/7 OSS

[vjf915 456]

1. "Increasing the permanent wound channel" which may mean a bigger caliber than 9mm.

 

3. S&W M&P (9mm)

4. SIG P229 (9mm)

5. H&K P2000 (9mm)

7. Beretta 92A1 (9mm)

8. SIG 226 (9mm)

9. Glock 17 (9mm)

Well that looks like 6 guns they can rule off the list pretty damn easily.

[Malsua 1,422]

Rest assured that whatever gun is chosen, it won't be on the merits of the gun alone. These types of decisions are political by their nature since it involves vast sums of money changing hands.

 

Whichever manufacturer is either willing to bend over and spread it or is in a country that we owe a favor will get the contract. This most likely will preclude Sigs, Glocks and HKs from consideration.

[tt-33 8]

money changing hands? I cant believe you could say that.are you saying we have the best polititions money can buy, ha ha dont forget the gifts and hookers thrown in too

[notmetoo 41]

I know the current USAF Chief of Staff (Gen Schwartz) is a proponent of .45ACP. I understand that whenever he was in theater that's the caliber he carried, though I don't know which actual handgun.

 

From the PEO Soldier website:

"Modular Handgun System (MHS)

 

The U.S. Army is currently adopting requirements for the Modular Handgun System (MHS) that will initiate a handgun competition to replace the M9 Pistol. The requirement for the new pistol originated with the Air Force and has previously received Joint Requirements Oversight Council (JROC) validation. The Army requires the MHS to be more effective, accurate, and reliable than the M9 Pistol, which has been the Army’s standard sidearm since 1986.

 

The MHS requirement calls for a non-caliber specific weapon with modular features to allow for the adaption of different fire control devices, pistol grips, and alternate magazine options. The weapon will fit various hand sizes and will mount targeting enablers using MIL-STD-1913 rails. The new weapon will incorporate detection avoidance by having a non-reflective neutral color and will be operable with a sound and flash suppression kit in place.

 

The MHS Program will select a commercial off-the-shelf handgun in FY11–12. Testing will be completed by FY13 and Type Classification is expected in FY14. The MHS will replace the M9 Pistol on a one-for-one basis."

 

According to this, they're behind the curve on the selection process.

[Maksim 1,504]

Finally. The CEO of Smith Wesson was discussing this a while ago. I am surprised the article is so wrong though. One of the discussions and main points, they want to go to a 45.

 

Smith Wesson submitting proposal for the M&P 45, which they feel very comfortable will win it out at the end of the day.

 

Glock 37 in 45 GAP. LOL. Glock will do anything to keep this caliber around. (before you say I am shitting on it.... I have 2 guns in 45 gap, including a Glock 37)

 

The gun will be american, most certainly, and if I had to put money on it... M&P 45, with the FNP 45 coming close second. (nice gun, just tooo big)

 

If you want good listening material, go listen to the SW conference call from a quarter or two ago.

[CageFighter 236]

my pick:

 

3. S&W M&P (45ACP)

 

they already have it in black AND tan.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Mmm Px4 .40

[bry@n 195]

I have to agree with Maks.

 

I would tend to believe the M&P will win out.

[GRIZ 3,369]

10 potential contenders and three of them are GLOCKs

 

Also three of them are S&Ws. The way the list is made up Glock gets 3 spots due to model numbers.

 

Where is the fnusg. 45? That list sux.

 

and the XD or XDm

or 1911

or Sig P220

or Taurus 24/7 OSS

 

The way these things work is the proposal is sent out and the manufacturers respond or respond with the model of firearm you're looking at. It looks like Ruger and others have also bowed out, at least for now. There may be others that drop out as the testing gets underway. You'll never see the military go back to the 1911. That would be saying they made a mistake getting the M9. When the FBI tested their downloaded 10mm in the 80s the 45 acp actually came out as a better round. The FBI couldn't ask for money to adopt a caliber that another agency DoD was abandoning.

 

Rest assured that whatever gun is chosen, it won't be on the merits of the gun alone. These types of decisions are political by their nature since it involves vast sums of money changing hands.

 

You can be sure of that. There may also be practical considerations. Some of these may be:

 

1. US manufacturing facility-not an issue here as all those on the list I gave have one but was an issue with the M9. This may be a reason others have bowed out.

 

2. Keep the 9mm caliber- to keep current stocks of ammo and NATO standard.

 

3. Pick the Beretta 92A1- minimal retraining, many parts (also holsters and magazines) are already in the inventory.

 

The U.S. Army is currently adopting requirements for the Modular Handgun System (MHS)

 

This is like piggybacking on a contract and is done by all Federal agencies. Saves money on the testing and agencies that sign on get a better price. The agency i worked for got their MP5s off the Secret Service contract. A lot of agencies bought ammo through the Treasury contract (IIRC about 8 years ago the price for 9mm NATO was about $5 a box and CCI Gold Dots were 9 or 10).

 

According to this, they're behind the curve on the selection process.

 

True but looking for a new handgun isn't as high a priority as other things. The more cutbacks DoD has to endure will delay this process more.

 

It will be interesting to see how this goes.

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

3. Pick the Beretta 92A1- minimal retraining, many parts (also holsters and magazines) are already in the inventory.

 

That is my guess. A lot of ammo and accessories on hand already.

 

I carried the Beretta in the Marine Corps, and put it though hell and never ha d a problem. I dont know what these guys are talking about

[Maksim 1,504]

I would pay very close attention to the part about wanting...

 

1. More stopping power than the 9mm M9's.

2. Ergonomic gun, with adjustable grip widths.

 

Only one there, with exception of the Glock, if it is a Gen 4, but once again... imagine if the US military adopts 45 GAP , is the M&P 45.

 

Really, go listen to the conference call S&W had, they lay out a pretty good case. As per S&W, they win over 75% of the competitions they are put through for all those factors. Combine the fact that they are an American name, plenty of mfr capacity, says "Made in the USA" on the side, and I am sure they can offer a sweetheart deal, there is little doubt in my mind what the next gun will be.

[hiker88 22]

... or imagine if the military adopts the S&W M&P in .40 S&W. Both pistol and ammo developed by S&W here in the USA.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Wow, and the M&P45 is the least popular 45acp handgun in the bunch. XDm, Glock 21, FNP45, 1911 and the SigP220 are better guns than the M&P. But none are made in America.

[67gtonut 847]

Wow, and the M&P45 is the least popular 45acp handgun in the bunch. XDm, Glock 21, FNP45, 1911 and the SigP220 are better guns than the M&P. But none are made in America.

 

 

 

...... and that is purely your opinion......

 

I think the M&P is a natural choice here....

[tony357 386]

It would be funny if the went full swing right back to a 1911..

 

Heck we still use gatling guns, replaced the crank handle with an electric motor..

[vjf915 456]

Mmm Px4 .40

They said hands of all sizes. I have medium sized hands, and the Px4 was too damn small for me.

[robs609 2]

I vote Glock 22.

Its about time.

[matty 810]

Whole thing sounds to me like make-work for Picatinny paper pushers Just like the XM8, there will be thousands of hours and gazillions of emails & pages printed (but with little to no development, as they will be looking at COTS stuff primarily). Countless snoozefest Power Points, conferences, 3 day long requirements meetings from hell, wailing and gnashing of teeth between the services, threats to pull out or cancel the whole thing. Five years later, they will come to the conclusin that an improved M9, maybe with hotter ammo is the best solution. It will certainly keep a number of bureaucrats employed for some time.

[diamondd817 826]

Finally. The CEO of Smith Wesson was discussing this a while ago. I am surprised the article is so wrong though. One of the discussions and main points, they want to go to a 45.

 

Smith Wesson submitting proposal for the M&P 45, which they feel very comfortable will win it out at the end of the day.

 

Glock 37 in 45 GAP. LOL. Glock will do anything to keep this caliber around. (before you say I am shitting on it.... I have 2 guns in 45 gap, including a Glock 37)

 

The gun will be american, most certainly, and if I had to put money on it... M&P 45, with the FNP 45 coming close second. (nice gun, just tooo big)

 

If you want good listening material, go listen to the SW conference call from a quarter or two ago.

 

 

This.

 

I agree that the pistol will have to be American made or the politicians will get a lot of ****.

 

But, I believe it will be .40 and not .45. Remember 40 is as american as 45. And 40 is a 15rd pistol instead of a 10rd.

 

My guess: S&W M&P Full Size .40s&w.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

...... and that is purely your opinion......

 

I think the M&P is a natural choice here....

 

sorry, but the only thing that the Smiths have going for them is that they are made in America

 

They lose on capacity, quality, options, and popularity

[Krdshrk 3,877]

They said hands of all sizes. I have medium sized hands, and the Px4 was too damn small for me.

 

Did you try the large backstrap?

[tuktuk 16]

I Cudnt find when was the last time S&W got a major military contract. Not say that they don't have a chance to get it.... I think the strongest contender is gonna be Sig. If I remember correctly the last time they lost only because they didn't have major manufacturing facilities in the US. well now they do. And if I read correctly, they are anticipating to get the contract because beginning recently they expanded the facilities and workforce .....

But then again , ima no expert at this , so I'm just talking

[Sixtytwo327 14]

First rule of government procurement: "Why buy one when you can get two at three times the price?"

 

The politics behind the choice will be interesting for certain; it might even be our generation's "7.62 vs. 5.56."

[david8613 69]

im no expert either but I work for the goverment and they usually almost always go with the lowest bidder, I hope I'm wrong and they choose the best for our guys in uniform protecting us, they at least deserve that...

[tuktuk 16]

im no expert either but I work for the goverment and they usually almost always go with the lowest bidder, I hope I'm wrong and they choose the best for our guys in uniform protecting us, they at least deserve that...

 

+1

That or whoever's lobbyists pay off more politicians

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Wow, and the M&P45 is the least popular 45acp handgun in the bunch. XDm, Glock 21, FNP45, 1911 and the SigP220 are better guns than the M&P. But none are made in America.

 

Come on Ray, we know you want to know why there isn't an STI on the list...

 

Harry