ClangClang 14 Posted August 31, 2011 Full article: http://www.wvmetronews.com/index.cfm?func=displayfullstory&storyid=47372 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ClangClang 14 Posted August 31, 2011 08/25/2011 Logan Prosecutor Says They're Still Gathering Evidence MetroNews Talkline Logan, Logan County Logan County Prosecuting Attorney John Bennett The Prosecuting Attorney in Logan County says he wants to be careful what he says publicly about a case involving a Logan man who allegedly shot and killed the man who robbed him. It happened earlier this week at the Logan Wal-Mart. "At this time, we're still gathering information, statements and whatever else they can come up with, evidence and I really don't want to comment at all," Prosecuting Attorney John Bennett said on Thursday's MetroNews Talkline. Logan Police say David Abbot, 37, from Chapmanville had taken money from Jesus Canul, 26, of Logan (pictured above right) who had just cashed his paycheck at Wal-Mart. Abbot threatened Canul with a sharp object, possibly scissors, during that robbery. Once he took off with the money in the parking lot, reports indicate Canul, who has a concealed weapon permit, pulled out a gun and allegedly shot Abbot in the head. Abbot died at the Logan County Medical Center. Canul claims he was acting in self defense, but Bennett says there are clear legal definitions for that. "If and when it ever gets to a grand jury, the judge would instruct them specifically on the law of self defense in this state." He says he has seen cases like this one before now. "The facts are always somewhat different but, in many respects, quite similar." At this point, Canul is facing murder charges. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tony357 386 Posted August 31, 2011 The problem hear may be that he shot him fleeing, yes with his money but he was out of harms way so he was not defending his life but was recovering his paycheck.. poor decision on his part is going to suck now.. Only good part of this he wont be robbing anyone else.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,871 Posted August 31, 2011 Ugh - not a good example of CCW..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted August 31, 2011 If, and that's a big IF, the facts are as reported, the shooter is toast. No longer a threat / shot in the head as he departed with the cash. Sounds like murder. Adios, Pizza Bob 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zell959 40 Posted August 31, 2011 He may or may not be found guilty, but either outcome is going to come with life altering defense costs attached. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hd2000fxdl 422 Posted August 31, 2011 I sure hope this is a case where the media doesn't have the fact right because if he shot the guy in the foot when he was no longer a threat his in big trouble let alone a head shot and DOA. Harry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted August 31, 2011 self defense.. you are doing it wrong.. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e80hydro 120 Posted August 31, 2011 Abbot threatened Canul with a sharp object, possibly scissors, during that robbery. Scissors beats paper, but a handgun beats scissors. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted August 31, 2011 IF the media has it right, the Shooter is history! All he had to do was issue a double tap to the center of mass as he was RETREATING away from the robber with the sharp scissors, a la IDPA and he's probably O-K. Wallmarts have security cameras. If this schmuck chased-down the bad guy to get his money back and executed the bad guy on camera, well then..........GOOD-BYE! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
71ragtopgoat 23 Posted September 1, 2011 Shooter is history. Even if they dont indict the civil trial will bankrupt him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hd2000fxdl 422 Posted September 1, 2011 Shooter is history. Even if they dont indict the civil trial will bankrupt him. I am thinking the same thing, but like my earlier post, I do question the media account of what happened. My first hand knowledge of how they report things in regard to the aviation industry is so off at time it comical, well at least to us in the industry, maybe not the general public that doesn't know what is the truth or bogus reporting. Harry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted September 1, 2011 I wish the shooter all the best, and the robber got what he deserved. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob B 103 Posted September 1, 2011 Some states have a law that allows the use of deadly force to stop a person who committed a felony from fleeing. Not sure if that is the case in WV. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anselmo 87 Posted September 1, 2011 Some states have a law that allows the use of deadly force to stop a person who committed a felony from fleeing. Not sure if that is the case in WV. Maybe the police are allowed but a private citizen can use deadly force to stop a fleeing person who committed a felony in some states? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DevsAdvocate 112 Posted September 1, 2011 This is not murder, it's simply doing the right thing. The robber was a criminal, he knowingly violated his contract with civilized society and suffered the consequences. Give the CCW holder a medal, not a pair of shackles. 8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted September 1, 2011 This is not murder, it's simply doing the right thing. The robber was a criminal, he knowingly violated his contract with civilized society and suffered the consequences. Give the CCW holder a medal, not a pair of shackles. Someone gave you a -1 for this? Gotta correct that! 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpecOps2087 3 Posted September 1, 2011 at least the robber is dead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DevsAdvocate 112 Posted September 1, 2011 Someone gave you a -1 for this? Gotta correct that! Really? What's the point of CCW if not to help make an impact on crime, by allowing one to take matters into their own hands? Our civilization, with it's great advances in science, medicine, and knowledge seems to have the thinnest skin when dealing with the criminal elements who prey on the weak. In any other period of time in history, a robber or a thief who was caught would at the very least lose a hand, and at the very worst get killed, while the rest of society would applaud the act. I understand this kind of thinking is borderline vigilantism, but you gotta be kidding me if you think it's fine and dandy to let someone rob you and run away if you have the power in your hands to stop them safely with causing undue harm to yourself or others. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,871 Posted September 1, 2011 Really? What's the point of CCW if not to help make an impact on crime, by allowing one to take matters into their own hands? Our civilization, with it's great advances in science, medicine, and knowledge seems to have the thinnest skin when dealing with the criminal elements who prey on the weak. In any other period of time in history, a robber or a thief who was caught would at the very least lose a hand, and at the very worst get killed, while the rest of society would applaud the act. I understand this kind of thinking is borderline vigilantism, but you gotta be kidding me if you think it's fine and dandy to let someone rob you and run away if you have the power in your hands to stop them safely with causing undue harm to yourself or others. I disagree. A CCW permit does not give you the license to go out and be a cop. CCW Is to defend the lives of yourselves and others, not to shoot fleeing robbers. 11 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Babaganoosh 192 Posted September 1, 2011 Although I don't think a class should be required to get a CCW, this shows why it may be a good idea. Especially those states where all you have to do is pay your fee and pass the background check. Even if it just goes over the basics. Things like not shooting someone in the back when they are running away. I dunno, I don't have all the answers. Something like that may have saved this guy from jail. This guy just did society a great service by wiping one scumbag off the earth. Too bad he has to pay for it the way he will. With great power comes great responsibility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbk 188 Posted September 1, 2011 Who gives you the right to take justice into your own hands? To be judge, jury, and executioner? The American philosophy is perplexing, as much as it is inspiring. We embellish individuality, celebrating a sense of self-- but while commenting that our values are embedded in community/religious values. We stand united when confronted with a challenge, but shrink when it comes to accountability. Maybe the fact that we are a nation of hypocrites is simply a fault of what makes this country so great. To believe that we are truly unique and special, but then abhor those who are truly unique (and maybe special). So, to ground this in the topic, who is to say your level of justice is "right"? To simply believe that this community, the firearms community, knows what is right all the time, for everybody, regardless of their background or affiliation means what in the big picture? Truly it must be a fantasy, or alas is it just a byproduct of our values? Byproduct in the sense that we believe we are infinitely correct regardless of the situation(s) that stand before us... absolutely disregarding that we, in fact, live in a community. I'm not pining for the global community and all of that hub bub, instead I'm talking about the greater sense of community-- human civilization (as it was brought up). Would this then justify the actions of say fundamentalists of a certain religious background? Because in fact, that is what you're saying-- that our values justify our actions. But no! It can't! Because our values are the broad stroke... OR SHOULD BE... Wait, that sounds oddly familiar. To be completely honest, it disgusts me when people who are a part of the firearms community rejoice in the one-track way of thinking. People talk about being civilized, and then they resort to disregarding any other possible perspective. Mind you, I'm not saying that what you're saying is completely incorrect. I definitely agree that we as humans, of any background, have the right to defend ourselves. It is a basic principle of what it is to be alive (to want to survive that is). However, to celebrate the notion that we, in all our individual glory, stand above and for the greater whole without giving the greater whole much thought? Well, that seems... uncivilized. /rant off 6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted September 1, 2011 It's funny how a matter of seconds can change the situation.... if he had shot him during the "robbing" part he would have been fine, but during the "fleeing" part he is now a criminal... The law is the law, break it at your own discretion and understand that your just and mighty decision comes with consequences. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted September 1, 2011 I disagree. A CCW permit does not give you the license to go out and be a cop. CCW Is to defend the lives of yourselves and others, not to shoot fleeing robbers. depends on the state... some states are pretty free with what they feel you can use a gun for and what you can't... check out Joe Horn.. there is a man who gunned down to burglars.. at least one shot in the back.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheMan 45 Posted September 1, 2011 I cant imagine whats going through the shooters head right now. Guy probably thinks he'll be waking up from this nightmare soon! I would've just chased the guy down and beat the s*** out of him until someone stopped me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StarWarsGeek45 5 Posted September 1, 2011 This is not murder, it's simply doing the right thing. The robber was a criminal, he knowingly violated his contract with civilized society and suffered the consequences. Give the CCW holder a medal, not a pair of shackles. Well said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,871 Posted September 1, 2011 More info. Witness and medical reports are showing a whole different story: http://www.wvmetronews.com/news.cfm?func=displayfullstory&storyid=47526 Shanda Miller says a nurse used scissors to cut open Abbot's shirt to perform CPR. Abbot ran into the Walmart seeking help after being shot, Miller said. Miller also said Canul's wallet -- which Abbot allegedly stole -- was not on Abbot's body when he collapsed in the store. Moreover, Miller said witnesses saw Canul, Abbot and an unidentified woman arguing outside of the Walmart before the alleged robbery. Reports previously indicated Abbot robbed Canul after Canul cashed a paycheck. There are also questions about where the bullet struck Abbot. Abbot's death certificate says a gunshot wound to the chest caused him to die. Police had said Abbot was hit in the head with that bullet. The Logan Banner reports that Police Chief E.K. Harper said Canul shot Abbot in the back and the bullet went through Abbot's lungs and chest. Abbot sustained a head wound the weekend before the shooting, Harper said. When Abbot was shot, the clamps on the wound came open, causing bleeding, Harper said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hd2000fxdl 422 Posted September 1, 2011 Like I said earlier, I hope the media got the right story when it was initially posted, now who knows what to believe. I'm now starting to think the shooter and robber might know each other and this might be a dispute between them, especially with the report of a woman also in the argument. I think I saw a CSI episode similar to this.. Harry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 177 Posted September 1, 2011 Talk about conflicting stories between the media, coroner, and police. Something tells me this is not a clear cut self defense case, sounds more like a murder and this guy is trying to use self defense as a hail mary in an attempt to avoid doing the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DevsAdvocate 112 Posted September 1, 2011 I disagree. A CCW permit does not give you the license to go out and be a cop. CCW Is to defend the lives of yourselves and others, not to shoot fleeing robbers. It doesn't. Cops investigate crimes, make arrests, collect evidence, and basically enforce laws that are on the books. They have certain legal powers that allow them to do those things. If someone robs me, and turns his back on me, and I can stop him (with a gun), then by all means, why shouldn't I do it? 1. I get my stuff back 2. This twerp is either gonna be dead, or he's gonna learn a lesson about messing with people 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites