Hating on the Sigs

[lunker 274]

This is not anything that I haven't been seeing on various forums the last few years, but it was collected all in one place on M4Carbine.net. For those that think I am a Sig basher, I have only owned one. It was a beautiful West German Sig P220. But I am a lefty, and Sig controls do not work well for me. The first article is informative. The second one is amusing and informative.

 

http://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=850310&postcount=26

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=83494

[BlackOps Badger 52]

That second link is funny. In the first link the guy talks about how bad the P250 is and I have to agree. My dad has one and I've had rubber band guns with a better trigger on it.

[mikeyboyeee 66]

Nothing bad to say about my made in 2010 P226R 9mm. Love that damn thing!

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

...how bad the P250 is and I have to agree. My dad has one and I've had rubber band guns with a better trigger on it.

 

 

Based on what criteria? The only criticism I've heard about the P250's trigger is the long reset. Otherwise, it is a consistent 5.5# - 6#, non-stacking beauty. Far better than any other DAO gun I've ever fired (the Kahr is a close second). For revolver shooters it is something to be envied - for others, something to get used to - but "bad" - no way.

 

I have always looked upon the Internet as a two-edged sword. It is a great source of information, but at the same time, how much of that information is fact and how much is overblown hyperbole?

 

Show me a manufacturer in today's environment that hasn't sought to cut costs. If Sig and others maintained the manufacturing status quo of 15 years ago, they would have priced themselves out of the market. All those strange model iterations must appeal to someone, and it's a good thing they do. Just as the "rust & dust" and doc fees add to the profit margin for an auto dealer, so do the diamondplate and rainbow-hued guns pad the manufacturers bottom line. That makes it possible for the purists to still be able to buy their utilitarian black guns at a relatively good price.

 

Has quality truly declined? Maybe, but certainly not to the degree that some would have you believe. Sig has more than doubled its production capacity and is now far more than just a handgun company. Many wail and gnash their teeth and say, "Why, oh why couldn't things have remained as they were?" Sinple, because if they had, you would be paying $2K for no-frills P226.

 

One person with a problem and a an Internet hook-up can, quite easily, make a mountain out of a mole hill. We have to guard against broad generalizations and blanket condemnations of a company's products based on one persons experience with one product from that manufacturer. Conversely, the Internet can be a good tool for identifying trends and resolving problems before they become monumental.

 

If anyone should have a reason to "hate on Sigs" it's me - those that know me, know why, but I don't. I currently own seven and I'm waiting on number eight. I prefer to do my own research. Take what I read with a grain of salt and make my own decisions.

 

Nuff said.

 

Adios,

 

PIzza Bob

[lunker 274]

Bob, as usual, a well reasoned response. The next time I see a gold plated pimptastic gun from a gun company I like, I will thank its owner for keeping the company financially stable enough to let me buy my smaller profit margin classic model gun from them.

[Shug 4]

Based on what criteria? The only criticism I've heard about the P250's trigger is the long reset. Otherwise, it is a consistent 5.5# - 6#, non-stacking beauty. Far better than any other DAO gun I've ever fired (the Kahr is a close second). For revolver shooters it is something to be envied - for others, something to get used to - but "bad" - no way.

 

I can't agree with you more. I even had a Glock fan tell me how nice he liked the 250. My only gripe is that you can't find a sub-compact kit unless you buy the 2SUM. Sig screwed that up big time so she might just end up on the marketplace.

[Old School 611]

Based on what criteria? The only criticism I've heard about the P250's trigger is the long reset. Otherwise, it is a consistent 5.5# - 6#, non-stacking beauty. Far better than any other DAO gun I've ever fired (the Kahr is a close second). For revolver shooters it is something to be envied - for others, something to get used to - but "bad" - no way.

 

I have always looked upon the Internet as a two-edged sword. It is a great source of information, but at the same time, how much of that information is fact and how much is overblown hyperbole?

 

Show me a manufacturer in today's environment that hasn't sought to cut costs. If Sig and others maintained the manufacturing status quo of 15 years ago, they would have priced themselves out of the market. All those strange model iterations must appeal to someone, and it's a good thing they do. Just as the "rust & dust" and doc fees add to the profit margin for an auto dealer, so do the diamondplate and rainbow-hued guns pad the manufacturers bottom line. That makes it possible for the purists to still be able to buy their utilitarian black guns at a relatively good price.

 

Has quality truly declined? Maybe, but certainly not to the degree that some would have you believe. Sig has more than doubled its production capacity and is now far more than just a handgun company. Many wail and gnash their teeth and say, "Why, oh why couldn't things have remained as they were?" Sinple, because if they had, you would be paying $2K for no-frills P226.

 

One person with a problem and a an Internet hook-up can, quite easily, make a mountain out of a mole hill. We have to guard against broad generalizations and blanket condemnations of a company's products based on one persons experience with one product from that manufacturer. Conversely, the Internet can be a good tool for identifying trends and resolving problems before they become monumental.

 

If anyone should have a reason to "hate on Sigs" it's me - those that know me, know why, but I don't. I currently own seven and I'm waiting on number eight. I prefer to do my own research. Take what I read with a grain of salt and make my own decisions.

 

Nuff said.

 

Adios,

 

PIzza Bob

 

 

Bob- I admire your Good German Loyalty! As you know I'm not a Sig expert by an means. But I'd like to make a general statement. With the exception of certain pistols that come out of a "Custom Shop", Smith M&P, Sig, GLOCK are all service/duty pistols and designed as such. Look at all the GLOCK trigger variaions out there just for NYPD alone. Most of these service pistols were never designed for paper punchers.

 

As far as cost containment....We've talked about the manufacturers droping their draws on selling to PDs. Well you gotta cut cost somewhere...

 

BTW we're due for a road trip. Secondly, I know the biggest mistake Sig Sauer ever made.

[McClane 4]

Show me a manufacturer in today's environment that hasn't sought to cut costs.

 

 

Heckler & Koch.

 

 

Personally I think Sig has become the laughing stock of pistols manufacturers with all their current, various rainbow guns. Half the pistols they make are a joke, not functionality wise, just purley on looks. I'd buy one of their older German made guns in a heartbeat but the **** they make today, NO WAY!

[Old School 611]

Heckler & Koch.

 

 

Personally I think Sig has become the laughing stock of pistols manufacturers with all their current, various rainbow guns. Half the pistols they make are a joke, not functionality wise, just purley on looks. I'd buy one of their older German made guns in a heartbeat but the **** they make today, NO WAY!

 

It's a weapon! It IS all about functionality!

[LorenzoS 100]

Sig has become the laughing stock of pistols manufacturers with all their current, various rainbow guns.

You're crazy, and obviously not a sophisticated enough operator to appreciate a masterpiece like this. I think it can still use more cowbell but that's just me....

[Caine 147]

I can't comment on the quality of Sigs as I've never owned one. That said, seeing an ad like this doesn't make me want to run out and buy one:

 

The only thing missing is the pistol bayonet

 

Really? Is this the market segment Sig wants to go after?

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Heckler & Koch.

 

In a world of compromise, some over-charge for a plastic gun that wants to be a Glock.

 

Really? Sig haters? You can name any gun and have a following right next to the haters. Look at me and HK!

[lunker 274]

You're crazy, and obviously not a sophisticated enough operator to appreciate a masterpiece like this. I think it can still use more cowbell but that's just me....

 

Oh my God. That is fukking beautiful. I couldn't have come up with a more craptical-tactical accessory if I tried. More cowbell, er bayonet.

I have a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range that this would be perfect on.

[McClane 4]

In a world of compromise, some over-charge for a plastic gun that wants to be a Glock.

 

Really? Sig haters? You can name any gun and have a following right next to the haters. Look at me and HK!

 

 

I agree their prices are high but none in the firearms game can hold a candle to HK. NO ONE! There isn't another company around today that makes the scope of firearms that HK does. Maybe FNH, maybe. (Mind you this is coming from a GLOCK shooter.) I've gotten rid of all my "plastic" HK's and moved over to Glock because of 1. Price 2. Simplicity 3. I shoot them better and 4. Parts/Accessories just are everywhere. That being said I still think HK is so far out in front in terms of assault weapons it's almost unfair. I'm not a hatter of any one gun maker but it is what it is.

[BlackOps Badger 52]

Bob, you're right. I worded what I said wrong. What I should have said was just that I personally do not like the P250. I don't have much experience with double action triggers and that is a main reason why I personally don't like the gun. Also, the grip feels weird to me. Did not mean to say it's a bad gun even though that's what I typed.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I agree their prices are high but none in the firearms game can hold a candle to HK. NO ONE! There isn't another company around today that makes the scope of firearms that HK does. Maybe FNH, maybe. (Mind you this is coming from a GLOCK shooter.) I've gotten rid of all my "plastic" HK's and moved over to Glock because of 1. Price 2. Simplicity 3. I shoot them better and 4. Parts/Accessories just are everywhere. That being said I still think HK is so far out in front in terms of assault weapons it's almost unfair. I'm not a hatter of any one gun maker but it is what it is.

 

So, H&K's are better yet you sold all yours and bought an inferior gun? Yeah right, nice try.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I know the biggest mistake Sig Sauer ever made.

 

 

Thanks Frank.

[Duppie 73]

Based on what criteria? The only criticism I've heard about the P250's trigger is the long reset. Otherwise, it is a consistent 5.5# - 6#, non-stacking beauty. Far better than any other DAO gun I've ever fired (the Kahr is a close second). For revolver shooters it is something to be envied - for others, something to get used to - but "bad" - no way.

 

I have always looked upon the Internet as a two-edged sword. It is a great source of information, but at the same time, how much of that information is fact and how much is overblown hyperbole?

 

Show me a manufacturer in today's environment that hasn't sought to cut costs. If Sig and others maintained the manufacturing status quo of 15 years ago, they would have priced themselves out of the market. All those strange model iterations must appeal to someone, and it's a good thing they do. Just as the "rust & dust" and doc fees add to the profit margin for an auto dealer, so do the diamondplate and rainbow-hued guns pad the manufacturers bottom line. That makes it possible for the purists to still be able to buy their utilitarian black guns at a relatively good price.

 

Has quality truly declined? Maybe, but certainly not to the degree that some would have you believe. Sig has more than doubled its production capacity and is now far more than just a handgun company. Many wail and gnash their teeth and say, "Why, oh why couldn't things have remained as they were?" Sinple, because if they had, you would be paying $2K for no-frills P226.

 

One person with a problem and a an Internet hook-up can, quite easily, make a mountain out of a mole hill. We have to guard against broad generalizations and blanket condemnations of a company's products based on one persons experience with one product from that manufacturer. Conversely, the Internet can be a good tool for identifying trends and resolving problems before they become monumental.

 

If anyone should have a reason to "hate on Sigs" it's me - those that know me, know why, but I don't. I currently own seven and I'm waiting on number eight. I prefer to do my own research. Take what I read with a grain of salt and make my own decisions.

 

Nuff said.

 

Adios,

 

PIzza Bob

As seemingly one of the few Sig p250 compact 9mm owners on this forum, I have only my limited firearm experience to draw from. I have no romantic,first gun loyalty to this firearm, firing a number of pistols before and since I purchased the 250 and while liking the gun ,trigger, and ease of firing,break down and cleaning , I do have some issues with it.

I bought it with the intent of it being a HD gun but have since bought a revolver to fit that criteria. The trigger is linear and after quite a bit of range time, accurate but it takes too much work, time and resources and I'm over it. The peripherals such as conversion kits, spare mags, holsters and upgrades are few and far between not to mention, expensive and the gun does not like some ammo such as S&B and reloads.I truly believe that SIG has basically abandoned this concept and while still a inexpensive,viable alternative to other DA guns on the market, it would be better served marketed to LEO's and some security forces.

In retrospect, I believe I would have been better served if I had got the Glock 19,CZ75,or any one of the SA/DA semi autos on the market.

[n4p226r 105]

i love my sigs. no big deal either way though. glocks, XD, M&P, they are all nice. i just like my sigs.

[McClane 4]

So, H&K's are better yet you sold all yours and bought an inferior gun? Yeah right, nice try.

 

 

I haven't sold ALL my HK's, I still have many. (P7's, P9's, a USC.) Just the HK polymer pistols I had went. I was able to sell a few HK's, buy Glocks and pocket money for other things I needed right now. That's life. Now, GLOCK makes great pistols but that's ALL they make. Inferior... yeah right! Their pistols will accomplish the same thing HK pistols will but for a lot less. COOL! I need that right now. However, their still isn't a company that builds the quality assault weapons HK does, not one. There isn't another company that test their weapons as thoroughly as HK does, not one. They surely don't expand their catalog with tawdry, unreliable pistols for the sake of picking up a few customers like Sig is doing right now. They seriously don't compromise, they over built the **** out of their guns and it shows. Juts like everything in life there will always be one, single, entity at the top of their prospective fields. HK is undoubtedly at the top of the firearms game overall. No one is on their level.

 

 

Please... tell me one other company that can even come close to HK's weapons overall, civilian or Military/LEO. What we're limited to in NJ sucks but that's NJ.

[bry@n 195]

So I am a Sig whore. I own enough to know the difference between the German goodness and the newest models. I do prefer the good ole german guns, but I don't see all the hooplah that people are complaining about. I have a Exeter framed gun that was all made in the US. The frame is holding up and all the MIM's parts are just fine.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I haven't sold ALL my HK's, I still have many. (P7's, P9's, a USC.) Just the HK polymer pistols I had went. I was able to sell a few HK's, buy Glocks and pocket money for other things I needed right now. That's life. Now, GLOCK makes great pistols but that's ALL they make. Inferior... yeah right! Their pistols will accomplish the same thing HK pistols will but for a lot less. COOL! I need that right now. However, their still isn't a company that builds the quality assault weapons HK does, not one. There isn't another company that test their weapons as thoroughly as HK does, not one. They surely don't expand their catalog with tawdry, unreliable pistols for the sake of picking up a few customers like Sig is doing right now. They seriously don't compromise, they over built the **** out of their guns and it shows. Juts like everything in life there will always be one, single, entity at the top of their prospective fields. HK is undoubtedly at the top of the firearms game overall. No one is on their level.

 

 

Please... tell me one other company that can even come close to HK's weapons overall, civilian or Military/LEO. What we're limited to in NJ sucks but that's NJ.

 

What, What and What?

 

Glock is #1 when it comes to polymer guns, hands down. Sure, you can spend the extra 300 or 400 bucks on an H&K and feel that you did better but that's not the case.

[david8613 69]

I own a sig p226r, and I don't see it being inferior to my glock, XD, beretta, ruger, Taurus that i own. it's actually pretty high on the totem pole to me...

[Anselmo 87]

I read McClane as saying that Glocks are as good as HK and less expensive when comparing polymer hand guns. But, HK assault weapons are better than Glock's because Glock doesn't make assault weapons.

[NicePants 58]

[bry@n 195]

Ray if your looking for a da/sa polymer gun, then HK really has the world. If you want a striker fired gun, I think Glock or S&W is the way to go. Sig does make the 2022 in a da/sa but I am not a huge fan. It's okay but not great imo.

[McClane 4]

What, What and What?

 

Glock is #1 when it comes to polymer guns, hands down. Sure, you can spend the extra 300 or 400 bucks on an H&K and feel that you did better but that's not the case.

 

 

Now GLOCK is #1 in your eyes but in your previous post you clearly stated that they were "inferior" to HK. "So, H&K's are better yet you sold all yours and bought an inferior gun?"

 

So, which is it Ray?

 

All I'm simply stating is this... HK is the finest weapons maker in the world overall. Period. Disagree? Name one company ahead of them. It's most certainly not Sig because at the moment they have their heads up their asses.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Now GLOCK is #1 in your eyes but in your previous post you clearly stated that they were "inferior" to HK. "So, H&K's are better yet you sold all yours and bought an inferior gun?"

 

So, which is it Ray?

 

All I'm simply stating is this... HK is the finest weapons maker in the world overall. Period. Disagree? Name one company ahead of them. It's most certainly not Sig because at the moment they have their heads up their asses.

 

You misunderstood me, I was stating what you said in that H&K's are better but you sold them all for Glocks. If H&Ks are better then why did you sell them?

Name one company? Glock

[McClane 4]

You misunderstood me, I was stating what you said in that H&K's are better but you sold them all for Glocks. If H&Ks are better then why did you sell them?

Name one company? Glock

 

 

 

As stated in the third sentence of my third post to this thread (the very last post on the first page) - "I was able to sell a few HK's, buy Glocks and pocket money for other things I needed right now."

[Ray Ray 3,566]

As stated in the third sentence of my third post to this thread (the very last post on the first page) - "I was able to sell a few HK's, buy Glocks and pocket money for other things I needed right now."

 

whatever