Krdshrk 3,877 Posted October 7, 2011 ATF Confirmed it's not a SBR, AOW, Pistol or Rifle! http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/10/foghorn/franklin-armorys-new-ar-15-is-neither-a-pistol-nor-a-rifle/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted October 7, 2011 how long is barrel? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted October 7, 2011 11.5", and overall length is just over 23" But here's the thing - it's not classified as a rifle so there should be no 16" restriction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hd2000fxdl 422 Posted October 7, 2011 Very interesting, this should be fun. Harry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DevsAdvocate 112 Posted October 7, 2011 Just buy them. Don't ask the NJSP for permission prior or they may rule to take them away! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted October 7, 2011 11.5", and overall length is just over 23" But here's the thing - it's not classified as a rifle so there should be no 16" restriction. you are talking about federal law... there is also NJ law.. in which taking a quick look it does not appear to satisfy NJ legal definition for pistol OR rifle (mirroring what you saw) we all know that you can fire a light caliber semi auto from the shoulder with just a foam coated buffer tube.. so NJ MAY argue that it is meant to be fired from the shoulder thus making it a rifle.. but who knows? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted October 7, 2011 Just buy them. Don't ask the NJSP for permission prior or they may rule to take them away! if you want one.. this is probably the best course of action.. read the law.. understand the law.. and proceed.. might be tough getting someone to do the transfer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted October 7, 2011 OK, I'm confused. NJ laws aside, according to the manufacturer, this is not a pistol, handgun, AOW or SBR......so what the heck is it??? I read the ATF letter, and while I am sure the manufacturer had it fully vetted by an attorney, I'm not seeing where it states this is not an SBR. It states that it does not meet the definition of a pistol or handgun and also that it is not an AOW - it does NOT specifically state that it is not an SBR. Maybe I'm missing something. Here's the letter... http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf We would have to know how it is classified in order to determine if it can be sold under state law. What say you? Adios, Pizza Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DevsAdvocate 112 Posted October 7, 2011 OK, I'm confused. NJ laws aside, according to the manufacturer, this is not a pistol, handgun, AOW or SBR......so what the heck is it??? I read the ATF letter, and while I am sure the manufacturer had it fully vetted by an attorney, I'm not seeing where it states this is not an SBR. It states that it does not meet the definition of a pistol or handgun and also that it is not an AOW - it does NOT specifically state that it is not an SBR. Maybe I'm missing something. Here's the letter... http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf We would have to know how it is classified in order to determine if it can be sold under state law. What say you? Adios, Pizza Bob It's in the wonderful part of the law where the law simply did not cover... the loophole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hmmjak 2 Posted October 7, 2011 while they don't specifically say if it is a SBR or not, it does look like they're comparing it to the thompson a5 and the loopholes that jumped through i did find this showing the firearm in action. in the video and on their website they market it as a pistol edit: according to them under cali law it is defined as a pistol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianargent 7 Posted October 7, 2011 Um. That's beautiful. Can I buy it from an out of state FFL? What happens if it's a rifle in PA and a handgun in NJ when I cross the Delaware? For that matter, what happens if the BATFE agent sees me put it into a backpack? (I think it's great!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quikz 34 Posted October 8, 2011 This will prolly be banned by 'name' eventually. Why??? Because it looks soooo EEEEEVIL.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DevsAdvocate 112 Posted October 8, 2011 This will prolly be banned by 'name' eventually. Why??? Because it looks soooo EEEEEVIL.............. Ban by name must be done via legislature... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMWR12 35 Posted October 8, 2011 It would probably considered a SBR or Assault pistol in NJ. Im pretty sure it fits the bill for both in NJ laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted October 8, 2011 IMO, it is not legal in NJ. It will transfer Federally as a pistol-gripped firearm, like a Mossberg 500 with only a pistol grip and no stock, to a person 21YOA or older. In NJ, a firearm can only be transferred as a long gun or a handgun. This firearm can not transfer as a long gun because of the barrel length. It also can not transfer as a handgun due to its weight. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianargent 7 Posted October 8, 2011 Can it transfer from an out-of-state FFL to an NJ resident, though? (I don't know the answer to that, not having particular interest in a pistol-grip shotty) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted October 8, 2011 Buy it from a PA Dealer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 177 Posted October 8, 2011 NJ won't buy that it is not a rifle nor a pistol being it is "designed to be fired with two hands because of the forward grip" hence not a pistol, and will classify this as a pistol due to the barrel length and lack of a stock. Well over the NJ weight limit for a pistol , so a no go. Federal law looks at AR lowers as AOW's , but NJ views them as rifles for instance.. they want to see one or the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted October 8, 2011 Wow, interesting loop-hole. Who's gonna be the ginny pig? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vjf915 456 Posted October 8, 2011 Who's gonna be the ginny pig? Just because I'm Italian doesn't mean these insults are appreciated. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlackOps Badger 52 Posted October 8, 2011 Just because I'm Italian doesn't mean these insults are appreciated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted October 8, 2011 You know Ray can't spell - he means Guinea Pig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aguilar64 9 Posted October 8, 2011 That reminds me of the SlideFireSolution according to NJ State Police is illegal here, it doesn't matter what the ATF says. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wolfy 51 Posted October 8, 2011 Wow, interesting loop-hole. Who's gonna be the ginny pig? I have dated a few ginny pigs!! But I am Italian so it's to be expected. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted October 8, 2011 That reminds me of the SlideFireSolution according to NJ State Police is illegal here, it doesn't matter what the ATF says. Where did this come from? I was not aware of any ruling - besides the NJSP enforce the laws, not make them (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aguilar64 9 Posted October 9, 2011 Where did this come from? I was not aware of any ruling - besides the NJSP enforce the laws, not make them (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) We were going to setup a dealer account, but we got an email from our NJSP "inspector" and told us that it was illegal here in New Jersey after he "NJSP" brought it up to his superiors and the NJ AG. =@ =@ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KpdPipes 388 Posted October 9, 2011 IMO, it is not legal in NJ. It will transfer Federally as a pistol-gripped firearm, like a Mossberg 500 with only a pistol grip and no stock, to a person 21YOA or older. In NJ, a firearm can only be transferred as a long gun or a handgun. This firearm can not transfer as a long gun because of the barrel length. It also can not transfer as a handgun due to its weight. This.. Sorry guys, but this thing is a ticket to a Indictable offense (Felony) Conviction in NJ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toothaik 0 Posted February 23, 2012 That reminds me of the SlideFireSolution according to NJ State Police is illegal here, it doesn't matter what the ATF says. Hi All, I'm new here and I was wondering about this. I just read N. J.A.C. Title 13 Chapter 54, and nowhere does it say that bump fire "stocks" are illegal. I also searched and couldn't find any "official public ruling" on the Slide Fire stock. Granted the Slide Fire people would not mail one to me here in The People's Republic of New Jersey. I asked one of the cops up at RTSP range here in Randolph, NJ if these things were legal. He told me the nobody knows as he had no knowledge of any specific challenges to the law here. I'm thinking about contacting Evan Nappen's office (they say they're available for quick Q&A's via email). Will see what happens and report back. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites