Jump to content
satrnfreak

Gun show purchase....

Recommended Posts

Hey all, sorry first off as I'm sure this has been covered, but I can't search the forum on my phone(mobile version have a hidden search I'm not aware of?). Looking to go to PA gun show in Allentown this year. What would I need if I want to buy SKS or some other long gun?? Have FID but do I need to bring my own CoE? What should I look for when buying military surplus as for legality??

 

Thnx

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many vendors will have a COE but why don't you bring your own with your information already neatly filled in? you can download the form, fill it in and print it out, then all you have to do at the show is fill in what you are buying and the seller's information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't do Out of state F2F purchases.

 

You CAN however buy long guns from Dealers and stores (gun shows have dealers). Yes you will need a CoE.

 

What's stopping you from doing a Face to Face? Those don't require a Form 4473, right?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes you will need a CoE.

 

 

Debatable. You should fill one out for your own records, but several PA dealers I've dealt with, don't want to be bothered with them. It is a NJ law and it's not like the NJSP can audit PA dealers. Since the COE only goes to the two parties directly involved in the transaction, what good does a COE do the PA dealer?

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's stopping you from doing a Face to Face? Those don't require a Form 4473, right?

 

Nothing - just the law. Out of state long gun purchases can only be done through an FFL in the state of purchase (ie there's no need to transfer it to an NJ ffl).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surplus City in PA is one of them

Debatable. You should fill one out for your own records, but several PA dealers I've dealt with, don't want to be bothered with them. It is a NJ law and it's not like the NJSP can audit PA dealers. Since the COE only goes to the two parties directly involved in the transaction, what good does a COE do the PA dealer?

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing - just the law. Out of state long gun purchases can only be done through an FFL in the state of purchase (ie there's no need to transfer it to an NJ ffl).

 

But how would you be caught? This isn't so much advocacy of violating Federal Law... but aside from committing a crime with the weapon, how would anyone be the wiser?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But how would you be caught?

augenreib.gifheadslap.gifbanghead.gifthmdown.gif

 

 

 

And that friends is the difference between someone who is law abiding at heart and someone who is criminal at heart. cringe.gif

 

It's not about being caught - it's about doing the right thing and following the law regardless of whether you can or will be caught or not.

 

By your logic - I should carry concealed - since it's concealed, I wouldn't be caught. headscratch.gif

 

Not for nothing but this is a public forum and can be visited by non-members, not that the membership process is that stringent but to post something like this, advocating breaking the law with the attitude of "who will know" paints all of us legitimate and law abiding gun owners in a bad light.

 

ETA - by the way, I didn't snip your original quote - you came back and edited it to make yourself "look better".

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

augenreib.gifheadslap.gifbanghead.gifthmdown.gif

 

 

 

And that friends is the difference between someone who is law abiding at heart and someone who is criminal at heart. cringe.gif

 

It's not about being caught - it's about doing the right thing and following the law regardless of whether you can or will be caught or not.

 

By your logic - I should carry concealed - since it's concealed, I wouldn't be caught. headscratch.gif

 

Not for nothing but this is a public forum and can be visited by non-members, not that the membership process is that stringent but to post something like this, advocating breaking the law with the attitude of "who will know" paints all of us legitimate and law abiding gun owners in a bad light.

 

ETA - by the way, I didn't snip your original quote - you came back and edited it to make yourself "look better".

 

Oh shush. I edited it to ask a legitimate question.

 

Carrying concealed is a far greater risk than buying a Mossberg 500 in a face to face in PA and leaving it in your closet in NJ... but if you never use the shotgun in the commission of a crime, then how would anyone find out? Who would care?

 

Does Federal Law require a 4473 for face to face transactions within a state? If the answer is no, then there really is no control on the matter.

 

As for the 'criminal at heart, law-abider at heart', thanks for the laugh. I'm a real evil and nefarious individual for asking about an obvious loophole in Federal Law. :p

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as stated before the only thing you need to do is make sure its a nj legal weapon (no 15rd mags, no bayonet lug, no flash suppressor and all of the things on that list) and fill out the CoE. As with every weapon purchase a NICS check will be done. Thats all though, longarms do not need to registered in NJ. anymore questions just ask.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as stated before the only thing you need to do is make sure its a nj legal weapon (no 15rd mags, no bayonet lug, no flash suppressor and all of the things on that list) and fill out the CoE. As with every weapon purchase a NICS check will be done. Thats all though, longarms do not need to registered in NJ. anymore questions just ask.

 

Oy - more misinformation (regarding the underlined section above)

 

Face to Face within the state of NJ between NJ residents does not require a NICS check for either long guns or handguns. You do still have to abide by OGAM for handguns.

 

Face to Face out of state requires an FFL (with obligatory NICS check) in that state for long guns. For handguns, they must be transferred to an FFL in the state of residence of the purchaser.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Carrying concealed is a far greater risk than buying a Mossberg 500 in a face to face in PA and leaving it in your closet in NJ... but if you never use the shotgun in the commission of a crime, then how would anyone find out? Who would care?

 

So - if I schtup her when she's asleep against her will then it's not really rape if she doesn't wake up? After all, who would know and who would care? No harm no foul. :rolleyes:

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just when I think certain people on this forum can not possibly put out a statement that would make me think even less of them, they go and prove me wrong once again.

 

Holy crap where did logic in this crowd go. Seriously, if this is the way you want to portray yourself, please oh please, find another hobby/sport to associate yourself with because we REALLY don't need you around.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the 'criminal at heart, law-abider at heart', thanks for the laugh. I'm a real evil and nefarious individual for asking about an obvious loophole in Federal Law. :p

 

There's no loophole. The law says you cannot buy face to face out of state without an FFL. But whatever - I will be unable to convince you of the law or the truth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just when I think certain people on this forum can not possibly put out a statement that would make me think even less of them, they go and prove me wrong once again.

 

Holy crap where did logic in this crowd go. Seriously, if this is the way you want to portray yourself, please oh please, find another hobby/sport to associate yourself with because we REALLY don't need you around.

 

One word man - Radek...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isnt a face to face a transfer not a purchase? Not tying to be an a** but jw

In the free gun loving states this would be correct. But New Jersey doesn't love guns. New Jersey considers it a purchase, even if you are out of state. So Face to Face either needs to be transferred through a dealer in that state, or needs to be shipped to an FFL of your choosing so they can do the NICS and Background check. OGAM is still applicable since handguns need to be sent to an FFL in the state any way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the free gun loving states this would be correct. But New Jersey doesn't love guns. New Jersey considers it a purchase, even if you are out of state. So Face to Face either needs to be transferred through a dealer in that state, or needs to be shipped to an FFL of your choosing so they can do the NICS and Background check. OGAM is still applicable since handguns need to be sent to an FFL in the state any way.

 

 

In gun loving states you still can only transfer to people living in your state with verifying their information.

 

You cannot transfer a gun to an out of state resident face to face.

 

Transfer/Purchase is the same crap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So - if I schtup her when she's asleep against her will then it's not really rape if she doesn't wake up? After all, who would know and who would care? No harm no foul. :rolleyes:

 

Ah, alas, we have the crux of the matter: in your case there is a victim. But who is the victim in the evil scheme of a firearm transfer outside of the eyes of the Federal Gov't?

 

If that Mossberg 500 is sitting in the corner of your closet and is never used, did anyone get hurt?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, alas, we have the crux of the matter: in your case there is a victim. But who is the victim in the evil scheme of a firearm transfer outside of the eyes of the Federal Gov't?

 

If that Mossberg 500 is sitting in the corner of your closet and is never used, did anyone get hurt?

 

Just so I understand... you know you are breaking the law, but you just don't give a crap?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just when I think certain people on this forum can not possibly put out a statement that would make me think even less of them, they go and prove me wrong once again.

 

Holy crap where did logic in this crowd go. Seriously, if this is the way you want to portray yourself, please oh please, find another hobby/sport to associate yourself with because we REALLY don't need you around.

 

Why is it such a big deal to converse on this? Obviously, the answer to the OP's question regarding to COEs in out of state purchases, then the answer is "no". As to the question of face-to-face transfers, that's a bit different seeing as it's a mess of Federal and State law.

 

I'm just pointing out an obvious loophole in all instances of the matter that goes to show the lack of logical thinking on the part of folks in charge of writing and drafting laws. Sure... you and I may not do this, but then again, what's really stopping anyone else?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's no loophole. The law says you cannot buy face to face out of state without an FFL. But whatever - I will be unable to convince you of the law or the truth.

 

I understand the law, but if the law is unenforceable, then is it really a law? I'm just questioning how it is enforced (if it is).

 

For example, the geniuses in Washington DC can pass a law that says you can only breathe air comprised of 40% oxygen... but how would it be enforced? Would you, the "law-abiding at heart" then breathe out of oxygen bottles to stay in compliance? This is a ridiculous example, of course, but just goes to show some of the ridiculousness in firearms regulation between the states and by the Federal Gov't.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just so I understand... you know you are breaking the law, but you just don't give a crap?

 

I do give a crap in the sense that I would never do it. But hypothetically speaking, how are these laws even realistically enforceable? This is the issue I'm trying to dig act.

 

For example: You don't need any FPID/PP to own a firearm, no? So then how is possession determined?

 

From what I understand, you don't keep the 4473 when you do buy the firearm legally from an FFL (in NJ we get the COE and copies of the PP), and if you do face to face sales within a state, there are no records of ownership of that firearm anyways until it re-enters the FFL system.

 

Furthermore, what about someone who does a face-to-face as a resident of PA, then moves to NJ, why does the fact of residency even matter if in the end, the firearm still crossed the Delaware? At what point did that extra step of residency really matter in the progression of those events? Did it make the user somehow less violent? Did it make them less inclined to break the law?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...