Bullethole experience (thumbs down)

[Maksim 1,499]

Jen,

 

Thanks for the response! And affirming what some of us thought anyway.

 

Your response came as I was about to reply.

 

Jared, you do realize, that head shots.... at short ranges, your head shots are not hitting the back berm, but rather bouncing against the ceiling and floor.

 

I already deleted about 5 or 6 of your posts, yet you keep on posting more sophomoric crap, and expect people to take you seriously. One more, you are out.

[woodentoe 14]

Jennifer,

 

I wouldn't read too much into or get further into it with detractor on this particular thread. It doesn't sound as though he has a legitimate beef at all. Every range I have been to has certain rules to maintain safety and ensure that equipment doesn't get damaged. Your range? Your rules. Don't like having a Range Officer enforce range rules? Build your own range.

 

This sounds a bit more like someone has a chip on their shoulder and doesn't like receiving instructions from an authority. Like ti or not, the range is a private business and their range officer has authority. It doesn't seem unreasonable to ask shooters to aim for center mass on an indoor range with hangers. Also, advising you to shoulder your shotgun properly isn't far off considering you are shooting ammunition that has the potential to damage the range if you're not in proper control of the shotgun. Sounds like a luxury to me for an indoor range to allow shotguns and high powered rifles like BH does.

 

Maybe less complaining and more compliance when you're on someone else's property is in order.

[Maksim 1,499]

Jennifer, I wouldn't read too much into or get further into it with detractor on this particular thread. It doesn't sound as though he has a legitimate beef at all. Every range I have been to has certain rules to maintain safety and ensure that equipment doesn't get damaged. Your range? Your rules. Don't like having a Range Officer enforce range rules? Build your own range. This sounds a bit more like someone has a chip on their shoulder and doesn't like receiving instructions from an authority. Like ti or not, the range is a private business and their range officer has authority. It doesn't seem unreasonable to ask shooters to aim for center mass on an indoor range with hangers. Also, advising you to shoulder your shotgun properly isn't far off considering you are shooting ammunition that has the potential to damage the range if you're not in proper control of the shotgun. Sounds like a luxury to me for an indoor range to allow shotguns and high powered rifles like BH does. Maybe less complaining and more compliance when you're on someone else's property is in order.

 

This, I will politely disagree with.

 

Attitude is everything. BH is no longer the only game in town, and treating people with an attitude is not a long term proposition.

 

Same thing with shoot center mass. I realize it may be necessary with the typical shooter that comes in, however why not just enforce a more clear, bullet must hit back berm, or you are out with no refund. I can promise that will work a lot better and keep the riffraff out.

 

My personal experience, I was lectured about how my 22 Lr ammo was crap, with an attitude, and by all means I did not look off the street. That combined with other factors is why I did not shoot much there. I have the utmost respect for the owners, and keep it a family business, and the support they provided for the forum, but if they know there is a problem, and it is reported by numerous people, it should be addressed.

[lunker 274]

BH is easily my Least Favorite place to shoot.

[NicePants 58]

Well, the truth comes out. Just read Jen's post about Jared at the range. What a noob.

[Sivl32 27]

before joining OBRPC I was there as often as i could make it and never once had a problem that wasn't my own fault.. I once brought S&B ammo to shoot and the range officer told me i couldn't use it, Its noted on each stalls and that was completely my fault. I went to the lady at the front desk and she gave me an instant refund quick and painless. Always enjoyed gun talk with the employees after putting a few down range, just never had a bad experience with them, and the GFH guys are often there and they are always awesome. My biggest beef I ever had with bullet hole is that bullet hole hat they sell is white and not black.

[Sivl32 27]

oh and

[Old School 611]

Though I don't visit the BH often I've been there and it definitely serves a purpose in an urban area.

 

The OP should be banned for slander since the truth has come out.

 

I'm not a BH lover as I have loads of other options But the OP owes the BH a huge Mea Cupa!

[woodentoe 14]

Maks,

 

I respect your opinion. I should have prefaced my comment by saying that personally I've never been to the BH. I don't have an axe to grind and I'm not defending anyone out of any loyalty. This is just one guy's opinion based upon what is on the thread. If I had a poor experience at BH, maybe I would be more inclined to agree with you. Nevertheless, I would prefer, in a public range, more rules and ROs with strict enforcement. It keeps down unnecessary damage to gear and unnecessary risk to safety.

 

That and the OPs comments as the thread progressed smack of severe immaturity.

 

 

 

 

 

This, I will politely disagree with.

 

Attitude is everything. BH is no longer the only game in town, and treating people with an attitude is not a long term proposition.

 

Same thing with shoot center mass. I realize it may be necessary with the typical shooter that comes in, however why not just enforce a more clear, bullet must hit back berm, or you are out with no refund. I can promise that will work a lot better and keep the riffraff out.

 

My personal experience, I was lectured about how my 22 Lr ammo was crap, with an attitude, and by all means I did not look off the street. That combined with other factors is why I did not shoot much there. I have the utmost respect for the owners, and keep it a family business, and the support they provided for the forum, but if they know there is a problem, and it is reported by numerous people, it should be addressed.

[this_is_nascar 157]

I’d like to comment on this post. I hope you all realize that I have not commented on anything since I removed the Bullet Hole from here.

 

First of all, my range officer is very strict. I am not arguing that. John is a Vietnam Vet that has seen more then most of us will in our lives. I know that is no excuse for something that may of happened in the range, but when you talk about someone like that it hurts. I can also assure you that he is not a homosexual if that is what some of you were implying. He is dating a very nice woman that is dear to him.

 

Now, when I monitored my cameras today I did notice John walking over to you Jared several times during your session. You shot my target hanger and you took a picture. That is why he talked to you. Realize that my cameras work. When you hit a hanger we need to order new ones because they break.

This increases operating expenses which makes prices go up. So we ask you to aim for center mass. I know that is not fun and aiming for the head is just so much cooler but we just cannot afford for you to do that especially when there is a real good chance that you could miss.

 

In the past the associated press has used photos collected off of websites in order to create a news story. We would rather not have a photo collected from our range. So we ask you not to take pictures. I realize that some of you do, I’ve even seen videos on You Tube.

 

Now for a more serious point. In the same thread you as a group have referred to my range officer as being homosexual and a racist. You referred to my store as being a brothel stating that and I quote-

 

“.And you guys actually pay real money to get treated like that? Damn, must be chicks putting out in a back room or something that's keeping you there.”

 

We are a family business that has been around for over 28 years. My mother and my sister in law works there in addition to myself. I find this insulting and degrading.

 

The firearms industry is under attack from all angles. We do not need attacks from within. As many of you know, I am a fighter for the cause.

 

Please in the future contact me if you have an issue. Stop at the counter on your way out and talk to us. I was there yesterday when this event happened and no one said anything to me. I cannot for the life of me understand why you waited until you got done, got in your car, got home, and got on your computer to complain.

 

Jennifer

 

 

That was my statement Jennifer. If you were offended, then I appologize. I was attempting to make a point that if members are actually paying money to be "harrassed" and told how to walk and talk and breath and shoot and................... then there must be something else going on that keeps them coming back.

[gumpracer 5]

I've been to BH a few times. I've never had a problem with a RO, or with the rules at the range. I have however had "issues" with attitudes at the front desk each and every time I've been there. I'm a business owner, with multiple locations. No matter what is going on in my personal life, I always make sure my customers are greeted with an enthusiastic smile. In fact, I'm frequently told by customers that's what sets me apart, and that's why they keep coming back.

 

As stated, I've no issues with ROs or range rules, but my experiences with a couple of different people at the point of sale actually prompted me to search far and wide to sidestep BH when it came time to purchase my last handgun. In fact, BH was actually the cheapest... but I just couldn't rationalize handing someone a pile of my hard-earned cash, and feeling dirty doing it.

 

I ended up buying from another NJGF vendor, and enjoyed the experience very much. I know I would not have felt the same way had I gone the BH route.

 

Also, now that RTSP is open, I no longer need BH as a range either. Again, just the process of purchasing range time, and targets isn't what it should be from an customer service perspective.

 

As to why I never lodged a complaint... I mean, when you're already dealing with an owner, what's the point? That's part of the burden of being in a family business. Everyone must be held equally accountable to each and every customer.

 

I don't mean to bash on BH here, but when you're either confronted by a rude or pushy man/woman who consistently treats a paying customer like an afterthought... why keep going?

 

Anyway, that's my 2cents.

[mikeyboyeee 66]

That guy was a dick to me and Caine the 1 time I was there.

[Texas Shooter 35]

 

The firearms industry is under attack from all angles. We do not need attacks from within. As many of you know, I am a fighter for the cause.

 

Jennifer

 

+1

[robot_hell 72]

Having read that about John, I will be thanking him for his service next time I see him. Doesn't change the fact that he's crotchety, though.

[Caine 147]

That guy was a dick to me and Caine the 1 time I was there.

Interestingly enough, that day with you was the only time any of the ROs at BH have really ever been rude to me.

 

Most of the time I've shot there, the younger RO (J.R.?) was on duty, and while I've seen him go off on people that weren't safe (and rightfully so), he was always friendly with me.

 

The worst thing about BH imho is how ridiculously crowded it can get at times and you don't find out till after you've paid and end up having to wait 45+ minutes for a lane.

[jjchrissy 0]

before joining OBRPC I was there as often as i could make it and never once had a problem that wasn't my own fault.. I once brought S&B ammo to shoot and the range officer told me i couldn't use it, Its noted on each stalls and that was completely my fault. I went to the lady at the front desk and she gave me an instant refund quick and painless. Always enjoyed gun talk with the employees after putting a few down range, just never had a bad experience with them, and the GFH guys are often there and they are always awesome. My biggest beef I ever had with bullet hole is that bullet hole hat they sell is white and not black.

 

Why is S&B ammo not allowed? This is Sellier & Bellot ammo you are referring to right? Do they consider it bad grade ammo? Any other strict rule I need to know if I want to visite there?

[MrP 81]

 

The firearms industry is under attack from all angles. We do not need attacks from within. As many of you know, I am a fighter for the cause.

 

 

Jennifer

 

I really can't stand this sort of mentality. There's obviously logic present and we are all very grateful for any pro-gun attitudes in NJ, but it also presents a sort of fail-safe for poor behavior/performance. Just to play devil's advocate, we haven't learned anything new at all. The only thing that has been added to the discussion is your side of "He did this, NO she did that!" arguement. Neither the OP nor you have given us any proof. Overall impressions of the Bullet Hole seem to be at LEAST split 50/50. I find it hard to believe that 100% of the people who post negative experiences are lying about what happens there.

 

I support the "Vote with your dollars" mentality, but convenience also plays a large part. Not everyone has the option to go somewhere else with their money. They also are most certainly allowed to vent if they have an unpleasant experience. We must also keep in mind that there is a very fine line between venting and slander.

[woodentoe 14]

We must also keep in mind that there is a very fine line between venting and slander.

 

I respectfully disagree. The line is broad and I think it is a mistake to condone the behavior exhibited in the thread towards a third party (RO at the BH). It is clear that many people dislike the BH. I, myself had a delightful experience at Lake Island last week shooting with John Fox. Prior to that, a number of members cautioned me that LI is not a good range and has too many restrictions and wouldn't fit my or any needs.

 

None of those sentiments were slanderous in the least.

 

 

See what I did there? I disagreed without acting like a child. (this comment is not to suggest your opinion is child-like, rather the OP)

[Ray Ray 3,562]

I really can't stand this sort of mentality. There's obviously logic present and we are all very grateful for any pro-gun attitudes in NJ, but it also presents a sort of fail-safe for poor behavior/performance. Just to play devil's advocate, we haven't learned anything new at all. The only thing that has been added to the discussion is your side of "He did this, NO she did that!" arguement. Neither the OP nor you have given us any proof. Overall impressions of the Bullet Hole seem to be at LEAST split 50/50. I find it hard to believe that 100% of the people who post negative experiences are lying about what happens there.

 

I support the "Vote with your dollars" mentality, but convenience also plays a large part. Not everyone has the option to go somewhere else with their money. They also are most certainly allowed to vent if they have an unpleasant experience. We must also keep in mind that there is a very fine line between venting and slander.

 

100% correct. Just because we are on the same side doesn't mean you won't be called out on your faults. If you wanted to make this range safe, get rid of all the crap from behind the ports. It's just too congested. Add that too people walking behind you and small ports means unsafe to me. Maybe cut the amount of people allowed in the range.

[ChrisJM981 840]

Jennifer along with almost all the employees there have always been very attentive as far getting to customers waiting to be helped when in the shop. With that said I have purchased multiple pistols there and had a terrible experience while buying my last pistol there. I've moved on to expect a higher level of customer service when making a purchase of a firearm.

 

As far as the range: It gets crowded in the back room some nights. You stated you do have a camera that works. Peep at when you're selling range time or periodically have someone check to see how many people are waiting. If you're going to close at 8:30pm you shouldn't sell range time at 7pm when there is a 2 hour wait. It's a bad business practice and puts a sour taste in people's mouths when they wait in line cramped in the back of the range waiting to shoot only to find out they're going to get a refund since you're going to close prior to being able to shoot after already paying for range time.

 

I realize it's a family business, you all have personal lives outside the store, and probably work open to close. For that I can understand clearing everyone out at closing so you can go home, but I wouldn't disappoint people supporting your livelyhood by wasting their time. Being honest & upfront about the wait is going to bring you more repeat business.

 

The rules are clearly posted: No cameras, no headshots, no wolf or S&B ammo, no guns uncased outside the port. This is to prevent people from doing...well... "dumb ****" is probably the best all inclusive term. People posing with firearms are going to barrel sweep other ports. I don't want some guy's ditz gf(or girl's ditz bf) holding a firearm sideways with his/her finger on the trigger so he/she can update his/her Facebook status. Headshots by inaccurate shooters are going to damage the hanger, potentially not hit the berm, and cause a possible dangerous ricochet. Wolf ammo is prohibited because someone blamed their gun blowing up on the ammo. S&B has fire potential due to the composition of the bullet jacket. I shouldn't have to go into no uncased guns outside the ports.

 

When you constantly are asking people not to do something and they yes you to death and continue to do it I can see the ROs getting grouchy. Especially when it involves safety. The rules are there for MY protection just as much for yours.

[MrP 81]

I respectfully disagree. The line is broad and I think it is a mistake to condone the behavior exhibited in the thread towards a third party (RO at the BH). It is clear that many people dislike the BH. I, myself had a delightful experience at Lake Island last week shooting with John Fox. Prior to that, a number of members cautioned me that LI is not a good range and has too many restrictions and wouldn't fit my or any needs.

 

None of those sentiments were slanderous in the least.

 

 

See what I did there? I disagreed without acting like a child. (this comment is not to suggest your opinion is child-like, rather the OP)

 

By stating there's a fine line, I meant to suggest not that it is difficult not to cross it, but that we don't often place enough importance on what it means to cross it. Your statement is correct although it doesn't sound like a typical forum post, it sounds as though you carefully considered what you wrote to prove your point. Typically, forum posts don't contain the same level of self-awareness.

 

I don't mean for this post to sound contradictory to yours, I'm just trying to explain my position better.

[CageFighter 234]

 

Please in the future contact me if you have an issue. Stop at the counter on your way out and talk to us. I was there yesterday when this event happened and no one said anything to me. I cannot for the life of me understand why you waited until you got done, got in your car, got home, and got on your computer to complain.

 

Jennifer

 

well said Jen!

[Ray Ray 3,562]

and where is JaredC?

[CageFighter 234]

and where is JaredC?

 

who cares?

[Ray Ray 3,562]

who cares?

 

Because his stupid @$$ started this and hasn't posted since Jen has replied. But your right, good bye douche

[IronPriest 2]

The older guy got a little crotchety with me, once. I had just put my .45 down after a few mags worth of shooting and picked up my Walther P22. I started popping off .22s at a rate of one round per second, as there was comparatively little recoil and it didn't take much to keep the sight on target. He got very-nearly in my face about not rapid firing, which surprised me, because I wouldn't consider separate, aimed shots as rapid fire. It also surprised me because he's usually pretty nice to me and anyone I bring. I think he forgets that he's had a conversation with me every time I go and, each time, I'm a complete stranger to him. Perhaps he had a long day, I really don't know.

 

Otherwise, I've never had any problems with the place. It's semi-convenient to get to, I can bring my rifles, and even when it's crowded, I've never had to wait very long even though there is certainly potential for a long wait - I've just been lucky.

 

Clarification on headshots: you can shoot at heads all day, as long as you're using a handgun and not a rifle or shotgun.

[Sivl32 27]

Why is S&B ammo not allowed? This is Sellier & Bellot ammo you are referring to right? Do they consider it bad grade ammo? Any other strict rule I need to know if I want to visite there?

I was told that they used to sell it and someone had a malfunction where their gun blew up while using that ammo and tried to sue.. that's what the RO told me anyways, something along that line. Other then from here I've always heard good things bout the ammo and its quite affordable.

[Maksim 1,499]

Two things with S&B and Wolf ammo.

 

Aluminum cased stuff has potential to spark.

S&B ammo and some older packaged mil surp stuff, alot of it is steel core, or iron, with a very thin copper jacket (labeled bimetal), it will very easily tear up the backstop, and as a result, is not allowed at many ranges.

[LastShot 6]

and where is JaredC?

 

refer to post #61

[LastShot 6]

Two things with S&B and Wolf ammo.

 

Aluminum cased stuff has potential to spark. please clarify how an Aluminum case can spark

 

S&B ammo and some older packaged mil surp stuff, alot of it is steel core, or iron, with a very thin copper jacket (labeled bimetal), it will very easily tear up the backstop, and as a result, is not allowed at many ranges.RWS has also not been allowed (bi-metal jacket)

 

If I recall there is no issues with blazer aluminum cased, I think most ranges are conserned with the backstop damage/Ricochet of the bi metal heads.