purchasing handguns from a friend?

[DJNEB 1]

I was curious about this, as I am getting no real answer when asking some dealers. Would I be able to purchase a handgun from a friend? What I know about owning handguns is that you need to apply for a seperate permit for each handgun through the state that you wish to buy from a dealer. My question is if my friend, who also lives in NJ, has a handgun he purchased legally with said permit, would he be able to sell me the handgun, without me having to apply for my own permit through the state? Wouldn't I be pretty much taking his handgun permit along with the gun? Can anyone help me with anything they understand about this? Thanks.

[Sivl32 27]

your still gonna need a permit and ffl far as i know

[Maksim 1,504]

Doesn't matter if you are buying from a friend or dealer, you need a permit for every handgun that you purchase.

[efl15 0]

your still gonna need a permit and ffl far as i know

No FFL needed when purchasing a handgun face to face if both are NJ residents.

[Sivl32 27]

No FFL needed when purchasing a handgun face to face if both are NJ residents.

 

good to know, thought that was only for rifles.

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

wjjeep, on 12 January 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

No FFL needed when purchasing a handgun face to face if both are NJ residents.

 

 

 

good to know, thought that was only for rifles.

That's the current law in PA, not our beloved PRNJ

[Steve_G 51]

That's the current law in PA, not our beloved PRNJ

 

What are you talking about?

 

Face to face transfer of a long gun in NJ: Matching FPID and DL, 2 copies of COE....No FFL required.

Face to face transfer of a handgun in NJ: Matching NJ DL and Permit to purchase a Handgun....No FFL required. Just fill out the P2p and send copies to respective PD's. That's it!

[avc8130 4]

What are you talking about?

 

Face to face transfer of a long gun in NJ: Matching FPID and DL, 2 copies of COE....No FFL required.

Face to face transfer of a handgun in NJ: Matching NJ DL and Permit to purchase a Handgun....No FFL required. Just fill out the P2p and send copies to respective PD's. That's it!

 

WRONG.

Face to face transfer of a long gun in NJ: FPID, 2 copies of COE....No FFL required.

Face to face transfer of a handgun in NJ:FPID & Permit to purchase a Handgun....No FFL required. Just fill out the P2p and send copies to respective PD's. That's it!

 

There, I fixed it.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

WRONG.

Face to face transfer of a long gun in NJ: FPID, 2 copies of COE....No FFL required.

Face to face transfer of a handgun in NJ:FPID & Permit to purchase a Handgun....No FFL required. Just fill out the P2p and send copies to respective PD's. That's it!

 

There, I fixed it.

 

Technically you don't need a FPID to purchase a handgun - only the PP.

[Steve_G 51]

WRONG.

Face to face transfer of a long gun in NJ: FPID, 2 copies of COE....No FFL required.

Face to face transfer of a handgun in NJ:FPID & Permit to purchase a Handgun....No FFL required. Just fill out the P2p and send copies to respective PD's. That's it!

 

 

There, I fixed it.

 

NJ Drivers Lisence is also required to check address. FPID is not required for handgun purchases, it is a purchaser id card for long guns only.

 

 

Technically you don't need a FPID to purchase a handgun - only the PP.

 

Yup, that's correct. Although, I always show mine when making a handgun purchase anyway.

[NicePants 58]

Technically you don't need a FPID to purchase a handgun - only the PP.

 

What he said. FPID states on it that it allows the purchase of "RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS". If we also needed that to buy handguns, I'd be pretty pissed and wondering why the hell I need to apply for PPPs if I need my FPID for the transfer anyway.

[avc8130 4]

NJ Drivers Lisence is also required to check address. FPID is not required for handgun purchases, it is a purchaser id card for long guns only.

 

 

 

 

Yup, that's correct. Although, I always show mine when making a handgun purchase anyway.

 

Why do you need to verify address? You don't! You do NOT have to have a NJDL to purchase firearms. At an FFL you need a valid state-issued ID. The address does not matter. If the person has an FPID they can buy long guns. If they have PPP they can buy a pistol.

 

Good catch on the no FPID for pistols. My bad. I forgot the PPP already has the purchaser's FPID # on them.

 

ac

[PK90 3,570]

Why do you need to verify address? You don't! You do NOT have to have a NJDL to purchase firearms. At an FFL you need a valid state-issued ID. The address does not matter. If the person has an FPID they can buy long guns. If they have PPP they can buy a pistol.

Good catch on the no FPID for pistols. My bad. I forgot the PPP already has the purchaser's FPID # on them.

ac

 

Now you've crossed into purchasing from a dealer. You absolutely need to show a valid Government issued ID with a photo, name, dob and an address. That is Federal Law. Here is a little excerp from the "Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide":

 

Thus, for example, a licensee may accept a valid driver's license that accurately reflects the purchaser's name, date of birth, and photograph, along with a vehicle registration issued by the State indicating the transferee's current address. Licensees should note that if the law of the State that issued the driver's license provides that the driver's license is invalid due to any reason (i.e., the license is expired or is no longer valid due to an unreported change of address), then the driver's license may not be used for identification purposes under the Brady Act. If a licensee has reasonable cause to question the validity of an identification document, he or she should not proceed with the transfer until those questions can be resolved.

[Steve_G 51]

Now you've crossed into purchasing from a dealer. You absolutely need to show a valid Government issued ID with a photo, name, dob and an address. That is Federal Law. Here is a little excerp from the "Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide":

 

Paul, are you saying that I don't need to check the DL to check identity and address in a face to face sale?

[PK90 3,570]

There is nothing that says that the purchaser needs to exhibit a driver's license. The purchaser need only exhibit a FPID. Of course, how do you know he did not 'borrow' his friend's FPID. A Photo ID is suggested as has been posted in that sticky years ago.

[avc8130 4]

There is nothing that says that the purchaser needs to exhibit a driver's license. The purchaser need only exhibit a FPID. Of course, how do you know he did not 'borrow' his friend's FPID. A Photo ID is suggested as has been posted in that sticky years ago.

 

By the fingerprint, duh! :wild:

 

NJ COULD make FPIDs with photos...most other states that have some form of firearm ID do. Who cares if he borrowed it from a friend? He presented you with a document stating that it is legal for him to purchase the weapon from you. Just like a cop could write your dad a ticket for your speeding if you stole his non-photo DL years ago. The transferor did not break the law if the transforee provided false documentation that a reasonable person would believe is legitimate. Now if a dude shows up to buy a gun from you, and the FPID says "Charlotte" you might want to see some ID. Really it is best to see and ID to cover yourself (not the LAW), but why worry about the address? That just makes people who live in rural areas have more hassle. 2 FFLs told me they do not care if the address matches, the ID is just to prove who the person is. I buy firearms with my military issued ID...no address on that and no issues from FFLs.

 

ac

[PK90 3,570]

2 FFLs told me they do not care if the address matches, the ID is just to prove who the person is. I buy firearms with my military issued ID...no address on that and no issues from FFLs.

ac

 

It is apparent that you do not care what the laws and regulations say and do not say. Those dealers that you say you use, do not care either. Good luck.

[Maksim 1,504]

Personally, in my own FTF transactions, I keep a copy of the person's DL if I do not know them, and a bill of sale. CYA.

[avc8130 4]

It is apparent that you do not care what the laws and regulations say and do not say. Those dealers that you say you use, do not care either. Good luck.

 

FFL's are responsible for following firearm laws. They don't have to follow traffic laws.

 

If your FPID has your current address, you are legal and the FFL is able to process the sale. It is entirely possible for your FPID and your DL to both be 100% valid and legal in this state and not match.

 

Does the NJ state law specifically state that a DL be used as the 2nd form of ID or does it just require a govt issued ID?

 

With a FTF, NO 2nd form of ID is REQUIRED by law for a long gun...therefore it should never matter if they match or not.

 

This whole address thing is completely out of hand on this forum. Addresses do not matter provided the person submitting the FPID to the seller isn't falsifying that they live there. In which case, it cannot be the responsibility of the transfer-or to determine. Our own sticky says "photo ID"...it doesn't say that photo ID MUST have an address. The purpose of the ID is to prove the person holding the FPID is in fact the person who's name is on it. A passport/military ID would both do that just fine and neither have the bearers address on them.

 

ac

[hd2000fxdl 422]

:popcorn:

[PK90 3,570]

PAGE #3

[Maksim 1,504]

Valid Identification Document

 

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) requires licensees to identify unlicensed transferees by examining a valid government- issued identification document prior to completing a transfer or sale. The most commonly used document that meets this requirement is a State-issued driver’s license. The driver’s license meets the requirement of the definition of “identification document” found in 27 C.F.R. § 478.11. The definition reads in part, “a document containing the name, residence address, date of birth, and photograph of the holder and which was made or issued by or under the authority of the United States Government, a State, political subdivision of a State…” A driver’s license, as such, is a document that contains the name, residence address, date of birth, and photograph of the holder and was made or issued under the authority of a State. (See 18 U.S.C. § 922(t)(1)©, 27 C.F.R. § 478.124©(3)(i), and 27 C.F.R. § 478.11)

However, as stated in ATF Ruling 2001-5, licensees may accept a combination of valid government-issued documents to satisfy these identification document requirements. A valid government-issued photo identification document bearing the name, photograph, and date of birth of the transferee may be supplemented by another valid, government-issued document showing the transferee’s residence address. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. These persons may satisfy the identification document requirement by presenting a military identification card along with official orders showing that the permanent duty station is within the State where the licensed premises are located.

 

FFLs should ensure that all “identification documents” (e.g., driver’s license) used by an FFL to identify a purchaser contain the purchaser’s name, residence address, age or date of birth, and photograph and that the “identification document”

is valid and issued under the authority of a State or political subdivision (a political subdivision of a State may generally be taken to mean county or municipality).

[avc8130 4]

Awesome. I greatly appreciate that. Seriously. So for an FFL the ID must have a residence and the address on the FPID and ID should match (in physical location, I still maintain that my FPID stating Fredon, NJ and my NJDL stating Newton, NJ are "ok" as they both reference the exact same physical location).

 

Still doesn't mean a valid NJDL with written matching addresses are required for a FTF long gun transfer.

[PK90 3,570]

Nope, Photo ID F2F is only a suggestion.

 

BTW, this was asked and answered last March.

 

"Do FPID and DL Addresses HAVE to Match?"

[ctxtc 0]

Isn't "one gun a month" enacted for P2P sales also?

[avc8130 4]

Isn't "one gun a month" enacted for P2P sales also?

 

Yes.