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NJ ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER AMMO BAN & MORE!

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Go to my post at # 12 and cut and paste it. I'm no speech writer but they have to get bombarded with as many emails and phone calls as possible. Get your kids, grandkids, wife etc who vote on American Idol contestants to send an email. Use mine, make one up, send anything just to fill up their mailboxes with "NO to A588"

 

Revised at #28

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Hope you don't mind. I took your form letter. I set up a facebook group to oppose this bill, seeing as how I know a lot of firearm owners who aren't members of the forums, or the pro-2A groups. Here's the link.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/345181032167418/

 

Please, spread the word around, and let me know if I need anything else on there.

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http://e-lobbyist.co...its/text/519694

 

They are going after ammo for the Five-seveN handgun. This wording is added to the part of the law N.J.S.2C:39-3 that prohibits hollow points:

 

or (3) any person, other than a law enforcement officer, who knowingly has in his possession handgun ammunition which (a) has a full metal jacket and an ogive with a steel penetrator tip followed by an aluminum core and is therefore capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, or (b) after testing, the Attorney General determines poses a threat to the safety and well being of law enforcement officers because of the materials, be they metallic or nonmetallic, used in its composition or because its ogive, core or jacket are of a design, construction or formulation which makes it capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

 

This is the explanation:

Police officers recently encountered a new and highly destructive bullet. The SS190AP ammunition for the Five-seveN Tactical handgun is uniquely designed. It is a full metal jacketed bullet, but utilizes two metal inserts. The tip of the bullet has a steel penetrator which is followed by an aluminum core. The weight relationship between the two metals causes the bullet to tumble in soft body tissue, resulting in massive and, in many instances, deadly wounds.

But it is not just the substantial body trauma these bullets can cause that makes them a special threat to the law enforcement community. When fired from the Five-seveN handgun, the SS190AP bullet can penetrate 48 layers of Kevlar (the protective material used to make many types of body armor).

This bill would prohibit individuals, other than law enforcement officers and other statutorily exempted parties (such as members of the Armed Forces of the United States and licensed dealers who sell these type of ammunition to the military or law enforcement agencies), from legally possessing ammunition designed and constructed like the SS190AP bullet that can penetrate body armor. Violators would be guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. A crime of the fourth degree is punishable by a fine of not more than $10,000; imprisonment for a term of not more than 18 months; or both.

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It's more an issue that it allows the Attorney General to decide what is/isn't legal. It's a slippery slope scenario. Hopefully that there is where it stops.

 

I agree. I will also say it's a bit dramatic, at this point, to say that the AG can ban whatever ammo they feel like. The law is clear that it must be armor piercing and is pretty specific about its limitations.

 

To say that the law says:

A588 would enable the Attorney General to ban handgun and rifle ammunition by executive fiat.

Common hunting, target, and self-defense ammunition would be subject to ban under A588, along with BB’s, airgun pellets, and plastic airsoft pellets!

 

I just don't see how the bill/law would allow the banning of common hunting, target or self-defense ammo. Creating a strawman is not an effective strategy. If we want to be taken seriously, we can't protest about things that the bill doesn't say.

 

Doing a quick search to try and locate some of this ammo for sale, no regular ammo website sells any and it's going for $4 a round ($200 for a box of 50) on gunbroker.

 

The problem with the bill is that it doesn't define what penetrating or breaching body armor means. That is where the potential for abuse and unknowns come in.

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http://e-lobbyist.co...its/text/519694

 

They are going after ammo for the Five-seveN handgun. This wording is added to the part of the law N.J.S.2C:39-3 that prohibits hollow points:

 

 

I have to be honest, never heard of the Five-seveN but just did a quick search and found this

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I agree. I will also say it's a bit dramatic, at this point, to say that the AG can ban whatever ammo they feel like. The law is clear that it must be armor piercing and is pretty specific about its limitations.

 

To say that the law says:

 

 

I just don't see how the bill/law would allow the banning of common hunting, target or self-defense ammo. Creating a strawman is not an effective strategy. If we want to be taken seriously, we can't protest about things that the bill doesn't say.

 

Doing a quick search to try and locate some of this ammo for sale, no regular ammo website sells any and it's going for $4 a round ($200 for a box of 50) on gunbroker.

 

Banning a specific ammo by name sets a bad precadent. The problem with the bill is that it doesn't define what penetrating or breaching body armor means. That is where the potential for abuse and unknowns come in.

 

Exactly. My brother's (soon to be) father-in-law claims my 8mm can shoot through a railroad tie. Obviously, I haven't tried that out, but I have heard of K98s surfacing in Iraq, since they are capable of defeating body armor. It is my hope that if we can at least make ourselves vocal that we do not want anymore legislation, it may help turn the tide in NJ with their draconain laws.

 

You also brought up the ammo already being banned. I mentioned this to the one woman who answered the phone for one of the assemblymen (I forget which one it was at this point) it seems they don't know that this is already on the books, and as such, cannot bring it back up. That's why it's scary. 1) They don't know the existing laws. 2) This will give them the capability to ban further ammunition.

 

As for the 5-7, it's a really good pistol. I have an airsoft version, and if I was 21, and could afford it, I'd get one. The problem is groups such as the Brady-bunch don't realize that only specific ammo has those capabilites. Your standard copper cased lead round won't have any more effect than most pistol rounds.

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I agree. I will also say it's a bit dramatic, at this point, to say that the AG can ban whatever ammo they feel like. The law is clear that it must be armor piercing and is pretty specific about its limitations.

 

To say that the law says:

 

 

I just don't see how the bill/law would allow the banning of common hunting, target or self-defense ammo. Creating a strawman is not an effective strategy. If we want to be taken seriously, we can't protest about things that the bill doesn't say.

 

Doing a quick search to try and locate some of this ammo for sale, no regular ammo website sells any and it's going for $4 a round ($200 for a box of 50) on gunbroker.

 

The problem with the bill is that it doesn't define what penetrating or breaching body armor means. That is where the potential for abuse and unknowns come in.

 

The bill does say that they can ban any ammo they want.

 

(b) after testing, the Attorney General determines poses a threat to the safety and well being of law enforcement officers because of the materials, be they metallic or nonmetallic, used in its composition or because its ogive, core or jacket are of a design, construction or formulation which makes it capable of breaching or penetrating body armor,[/b]

 

"Handgun ammuntion" is not defined anywhere in 2C:39-1, or anywhere else in NJSA that I can find. Since there are AR pistols as well has handguns that shoot 7.62x39 as well as many other traditionally rifle calibers, there is nothing preventing the AG from declaring them to be handgun ammunition, and since any common "rifle" round will penetrate any body armor not specifically designed to protect against rifle rounds....

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Hope you don't mind. I took your form letter. I set up a facebook group to oppose this bill, seeing as how I know a lot of firearm owners who aren't members of the forums, or the pro-2A groups. Here's the link.

 

https://www.facebook...45181032167418/

 

Please, spread the word around, and let me know if I need anything else on there.

 

Request sent to join the group!

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The bill does say that they can ban any ammo they want.

 

 

 

"Handgun ammuntion" is not defined anywhere in 2C:39-1, or anywhere else in NJSA that I can find. Since there are AR pistols as well has handguns that shoot 7.62x39 as well as many other traditionally rifle calibers, there is nothing preventing the AG from declaring them to be handgun ammunition, and since any common "rifle" round will penetrate any body armor not specifically designed to protect against rifle rounds....

 

The section of law where the bill would go is preceded by; ammunition primarily designed for use in a handgun

 

Traditional rifle calibers are primarily designed for use in a rifle, not handgun. But, you're right. The lack of definitons is the slippery slope and that is the problem. It's a law that won't do any good but just do harm to law abiding citizens. How do the police even enforce such a vague law? Will they confiscate ammo and send it off to some lab to check its hardness level and x-ray it to check its ogive? How am I supposed to know if I buy ammo if it is comprised of a bullet whose core or jacket, if the jacket is thicker than .025 of an inch, is made of tungsten carbide, or hard bronze, or other material which is harder than a rating of 72 or greater on the Rockwell B. Hardness Scale? I don't have a hardness scale at home. Are all ammo manufacturers supposed to put a NJ symbol on their ammo like a little "K" for kosher on food labels?

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Also, the ammo that is specifically targetted (SS190) has been declared by the ATF to be AP handgun ammo since at least 2005 and is thus already illegal under both state and federal law...

 

http://www.atf.gov/p...ale-pistol.html

 

Don't matter to our Assemblycritters, they'll just drop any reference to SS190 and move the bill forward, since then even water pistols can be deemed illegal, unless they already are, but then again that won't matter cause passing duplicate bills making something even more illegal is what you do instead of something.

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I work in the Trenton area. I may try to go on Monday to the State House. Who has the link to the exact information? Where was it found? Someone said 2pm... where did that info come from? I can't spend all day there but I'll try to stop by and see if I can catch the vote... if it's not a closed hearing of course. This is all assuming it's public privilege to be able to walk in to the State House, sit down and watch. If anyone knows what the deal is... let me know... I'll go Monday in opposition of Bill's A588 and A1013.

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Hope you don't mind. I took your form letter. I set up a facebook group to oppose this bill, seeing as how I know a lot of firearm owners who aren't members of the forums, or the pro-2A groups. Here's the link.

 

https://www.facebook...45181032167418/

 

Please, spread the word around, and let me know if I need anything else on there.

Request sent to join the group!

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I work in the Trenton area. I may try to go on Monday to the State House. Who has the link to the exact information? Where was it found? Someone said 2pm... where did that info come from? I can't spend all day there but I'll try to stop by and see if I can catch the vote... if it's not a closed hearing of course. This is all assuming it's public privilege to be able to walk in to the State House, sit down and watch. If anyone knows what the deal is... let me know... I'll go Monday in opposition of Bill's A588 and A1013.

 

On Monday, January 30, the New Jersey Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee is scheduled to consider Assembly Bill 588 and Assembly Bill 1013. The hearing will be held at 2:00 p.m. in Committee Room 16, 4th Floor, State House Annex in Trenton.

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Kean's email addresses bounced. Whilst this may be intended to outlaw already outlawed ammo--this is the NJ Assembly we are talking abut, not MENSA---I think that its written so poorly that any current or future AG will 're-interpret' if they like at our expense. Best to smack it down now. Kill it before it gets a chance to advance. I know NJ2AS is all over it, I am hoping ANJRPC is also at least, with the NRA

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Kean's email addresses bounced. Whilst this may be intended to outlaw already outlawed ammo--this is the NJ Assembly we are talking abut, not MENSA---I think that its written so poorly that any current or future AG will 're-interpret' if they like at our expense. Best to smack it down now. Kill it before it gets a chance to advance. I know NJ2AS is all over it, I am hoping ANJRPC is also at least, with the NRA

 

I got email from the NRA literally 20 minutes after NJ2AS emailed about it.

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