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NJ ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER AMMO BAN & MORE!

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Someone should bring forth a bill that requires states legislators to know wtf they are talking about before making a bill.

 

 

 

 

Lets ban marble floors, I dont know anything about marble all I know is, its slippery when wet.

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I listened to the audio recording to the meeting, was it just me or did the one woman who said she would like to support the bill but would not because it gave to much power to the AG sound like she had no understanding of AP rounds at all. To me it sounded as though she was under the impression that it takes a special gun to fire AP rounds. This kind of raises a question in my mind, in a case like this would it be better to inform her or leave her ignorant. If she was informed we would hope she would make beter decisions when it comes to firearms by not supporting bill such as these. at the same time, If she just hates guns period she might have decided to support such bills as than she would know that AP rounds can exist for an firearm and it may scare her much more than the extra power provided to the AG

 

I think it would be best to leave sleeping dogs lay in this instance.

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The woman is Bonnie Watson Coleman. Don't expect legislators to know anything more about firearms except what they learn from the media and Bryan Miller.

 

Her two sons have knowledge of firearms. Both did time for armed robbery.

OT but IIRC a few years ago she tried to push another bill though that would have given inmates the right to vote. So you could see where she is coming from. And not that long ago she did an anti-gun editorial in the Trentonain, I don’t even remember what is was other than the usual BS….

 

 

 

For real? wowser. what district does she represent?

15, here’s Watson’s info

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My impression was the women were clueless to what they were signing in regards to both firearms and more importantly ammunition. When it was brought up that everyone in the room could agree that stiffer sentences for crimes committed by the low lifes that used guns in the commission of a crime made more sense, I think that gave pause to some of the assembly people.

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i just listened to the audio of the first bill. i think it's pretty apparent that all the emails and calls made somewhat of a difference. not to say it won't get passed anyways, or that it would have been passed without our emails (it has failed a few times before) but it seems to have slightly helped.

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I listened to the audio recording to the meeting, was it just me or did the one woman who said she would like to support the bill but would not because it gave to much power to the AG sound like she had no understanding of AP rounds at all. To me it sounded as though she was under the impression that it takes a special gun to fire AP rounds. This kind of raises a question in my mind, in a case like this would it be better to inform her or leave her ignorant. If she was informed we would hope she would make beter decisions when it comes to firearms by not supporting bill such as these. at the same time, If she just hates guns period she might have decided to support such bills as than she would know that AP rounds can exist for an firearm and it may scare her much more than the extra power provided to the AG

 

Being there I was able to see this Bonnie Watson Coleman's expressions and what she was doing when she was asking her questions. The entire time she was trying to spit out her question regarding the actual FN firearm she was making a trigger finger with her right hand and like pulling the trigger as she was speaking. She didn't come across too well. After they got past that and back to the AP SS190 ammo discussion... someone said to Asm Spencer from Newark... what exactly are NJ residents doing with this type of AP ammunition? And Asm Spencer replied... "shooting targets and such" or something like that. And I was just shaking my head. Lol. Yeah... shooting targets with restricted, very expensive 5.7x28. Like the Gun Blob said... lets let it die for now and just be happy. But that sucka is coming back. They don't like us... they don't understand us... and they don't care...period!

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I learned something interesting this past election. Public workers unions in NJ have always been viewed as this super voting block, and that they alone decided who got elected in NJ, and their membership is in the 400,000 range. Then some Democrats voted for some bills that they didn't like and they vowed to oppose those politicians, including high ranking Democrats like Steve Sweeney. Then the election came, and all those Democrats were voted back in. Think about that. The most powerful voting block in NJ couldn't vote out a single representative. And gun owners outnumber them 2 to 1. Imagine if we did more than just concede defeat in an online forum and actually contacted our representatives to voice our opinions.

 

There will always be anti-gun politicians proposing anti-gun bills. We just need to remain vigilant and vocal in our opposition.

 

That may be true and regardless of what you think of Public Workers at least they let their reps know. IMO I think too many gun owners now just sit on sidelines after getting burned twice on the AWB.

 

OK then, you want to talk about voting? Let us review, Florio and his cronies past the AWB. Many of his cronies get booted out on next election. Assembly with new members pass bill to override AWB and passes Assembly. Phase 2, Bill to override AWB then goes to Senate with support of Senate and Veto Proof majority from Florio however Senate President Donald DiFrancesco does not put bill to vote, bill dies on floor. I still would like to know why that happened????

 

Next Governor Florio lost bid for reelection which BTW was the first time a sitting NJ governor was ever bounced from office. Again, this is just my opinion I believe many Pro Gun people along with pissed off Taxpayers sh*t canned Florio.

 

So the moral of the story is yes we tossed Florio and his cronies but there damage still remains. The key in my view is we must stop the damage before it gains momentum. Once these clowns pass these BS laws it is impossible to undo based on past practice. Also lets be fair, the NRA was fully engaged during the AWB however that is no longer the case. As you said in you last paragraph we need to be engaged.

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Being there I was able to see this Bonnie Watson Coleman's expressions and what she was doing when she was asking her questions. The entire time she was trying to spit out her question regarding the actual FN firearm she was making a trigger finger with her right hand and like pulling the trigger as she was speaking. She didn't come across too well. After they got past that and back to the AP SS190 ammo discussion... someone said to Asm Spencer from Newark... what exactly are NJ residents doing with this type of AP ammunition? And Asm Spencer replied... "shooting targets and such" or something like that. And I was just shaking my head. Lol. Yeah... shooting targets with restricted, very expensive 5.7x28. Like the Gun Blob said... lets let it die for now and just be happy. But that sucka is coming back. They don't like us... they don't understand us... and they don't care...period!

 

i would have opened my mouth and said how is that possiable when the federal government restricts its sale to begin with? im sure heads would roll.

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I think the speakers did a very nice job of getting the point across that you don't punish law abiding gun owners with bans but punish the criminals for using them in an illegal manner. We always have to pay attention that someone doesn't sneak something through, but I think this bill is pretty much scrapped.

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What were the amendments to the 2nd bill that passed through

They've not yet been disclosed, nor will they be until the amended bill is scheduled for a vote on the Assembly floor

(even though it belongs in the Assembly gabage)

But look what happens when the chair of a powerful committee considers a bill that he himself has sponsored :jester:

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How can one not be disgusted with this State and it's elected officials.........I just dunno.

 

There is plenty to be disgusted about, but that's nothing new. Personally, I'm energized by the success of everyone's efforts to push back on these bills. These people are NOT on our side, but the response was strong enough to drive them onto their heels and I'd like to think it's plant seeds of doubt that'll pay dividends when they review any other potential anti-gun laws that cross their desks. Perhaps I'm being naive, but I'm geniunely excited by this outcome the more I think about it.

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There is plenty to be disgusted about, but that's nothing new. Personally, I'm energized by the success of everyone's efforts to push back on these bills. These people are NOT on our side, but the response was strong enough to drive them onto their heels and I'd like to think it's plant seeds of doubt that'll pay dividends when they review any other potential anti-gun laws that cross their desks. Perhaps I'm being naive, but I'm geniunely excited by this outcome the more I think about it.

 

Zell959 is right to a degree. In a perfect world if everyone showed up that would be great. But at the very least everyone that commented on this thread should go next time some funny business is about to take place. If just that small amount of people go.... right... you with me?? All in the back of the Assembly room gruntin' and makin' noises and sh^t. There is a feeling to the room... trust me. These Assembly people are staring us in the face. And trust me... they see you. They can tell how you feel just by the way you look. Therefore, SOME, not all decisions but some decisions can be swayed on that floor. Call it a pipe dreams but I believe if there are enough of us... I believe it can make a difference. They see you... The more the better.

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Zell959 is right to a degree. In a perfect world if everyone showed up that would be great. But at the very least everyone that commented on this thread should go next time some funny business is about to take place. If just that small amount of people go.... right... you with me?? All in the back of the Assembly room gruntin' and makin' noises and sh^t. There is a feeling to the room... trust me. These Assembly people are staring us in the face. And trust me... they see you. They can tell how you feel just by the way you look. Therefore, SOME, not all decisions but some decisions can be swayed on that floor. Call it a pipe dreams but I believe if there are enough of us... I believe it can make a difference. They see you... The more the better.

 

More people would be able to go if it wasn't held when most people are working and/or they had more than a weekend's notice...

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More people would be able to go if it wasn't held when most people are working and/or they had more than a weekend's notice...

That's their point

They really don't want you coming into their sandbox

And if they can slide their dirty little bills through just like they always have, so much the better

 

"Nothing to see here

Move along"

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This is from NRA email blast I received yesterday:

 

 

 

New Jersey: Assembly Committee Puts Hold on

Ammo Ban Legislation and More

Thanks to the overwhelming number of phone calls and e-mails from dedicated NRA members, the New Jersey Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee decided to hold Assembly Bill 588 for further study. While this fight is not over, this is a big win for gun owners in the Garden State. During Monday’s hearing, Assembly Bill 1013 passed in the Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee with amendments that attempt to address gun owner concerns and has been referred to the Assembly Appropriations Committee where further amendments may occur.

Law-abiding gun owners can breathe a sigh of relief due to A588 being held for further study by the Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee. Sponsored by Assemblyman L. Grace Spencer (D-29), A588 has been confused for police safety legislation aimed at armor-piercing ammunition (which is already prohibited under federal and state law). This measure actually would have opened the door to a sweeping ammunition ban by an unelected public official by executive fiat. Common hunting, target, and self-defense ammunition would have been subject to ban by the Attorney General, along with BB's, airgun pellets, and non-metallic ammunition like plastic airsoft pellets, if he determined that they pose a threat to the safety and well being of law enforcement.

Although A588 only mentions handgun ammunition, it is in fact not limited to handgun ammunition, and would have applied to all rifle ammunition for which a handgun is ever made. As an increasing number of gun manufacturers make handgun models that shoot rifle caliber ammunition, the line between "handgun” vs. "rifle” ammunition has become blurred, and the New Jersey State Police have already begun treating rifle ammunition in this category as if it were handgun ammunition for regulatory purposes. As long as a handgun exists that shoots a particular caliber of rifle ammunition, New Jersey treats that ammunition as if it were handgun ammunition.

The Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee did pass A1013 with amendments that attempt to address gun owner concerns. This legislation will now head to the New Jersey Assembly Committee on Appropriations. A1013, sponsored by Assemblyman Charles Mainor (D-31), would criminalize the use of a defaced or stolen firearm that is used to injure a police officer and enhances penalties for defacing a firearm. One provision of this police safety legislation significantly increases the penalties relating to "defaced” firearms. Because of New Jersey's longstanding poorly-crafted definition of "defaced” firearms, it is possible that refinishing a firearm, or long-term damage from rust or scratches from ordinary wear and tear, could be deemed "defacement” subjecting honest gun owners to lengthy prison sentences, even though identifying information on the firearm is still legible.

We would like to thank all of the NRA members who voiced their opposition to A588 and A1013. Please continue to check your e-mail and www.NRAILA.org for more updates on A588 and A1013.

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@ Qel Hoth

 

njJoniGuy says it best...

 

That's their point

They really don't want you coming into their sandbox

And if they can slide their dirty little bills through just like they always have, so much the better

"Nothing to see here

Move along"

 

I think thats exactly it... everyone will always have something else to do on the day this thing crops up. I know that. We have to make ourselves more available. It's a shame we even have to think of such a thing considering it's an unalienable right in our country to keep and bear arms. I get that. But hey... we live here. It doesn't seem like many of us our moving. If we want to live here and enjoy our rights, which in addition to simply being "Rights" is also a hobby to some, a collection for others, a sport or a profession. If we want to protect the very little we have and continue to enjoy it we have to come to grips with our situation.

 

The forum is super important for the responsible, law abiding firearms owners of NJ. Anyone who doesn't use the forum doesn't know what they are missing... and trust me there are a few of those people in my own group of friends and family.

 

However, equal to that or arguably more important than that is us beginning to show up for these last minute discussions about our rights. Even if its the day before! We all need to find ways in our personal lives to work it out in order to be there.

 

Agreed? Let's do this fellas! We need momentum... we can get our Rights back. Stop those infringements we hate and also show them we want back what they are currently restricting!

 

Bottom line... we should keep the cryin' to a minimum if all we are gonna do is make a few donations and expect others to defend our Rights. Or, any other type of B^tchin' and moanin' we are all guilty of...

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The NRA is taking credit for defeating this bill?

 

Well Scott Bach and Bob Viden were there, their both part of the ANJRPC, which is the State NRA group, and both of them are on the NRA board, so in a round about way, the NRA did have a hand. But I don't buy that it was souly them. Which I know it wasn't but, it is messed up for them to sound like they are taking all the credit.

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The NRA is taking credit for defeating this bill?

 

I don’t they are taking credit credit for it; I just think they are just trying to spin it as if they had some impact. NRA members or non-members, who cares? What matters is Regular folks like us called, emailed and faxed and that is what got the attention of the clowns in Trenton. Fighting to a draw is not a victory. This only means more of this BS is yet to come.

 

IMO with all the latest crime and Gun Violence in Trenton people like Bonnie Watson aren’t going to give up. She and those like her with the Nanny state mindset will try and pass other restrictions as crime in Trenton continues. We all know NJ Gun laws are BS, these laws only impacts hobbyist because bad guys don’t give a sh*t about ANY laws.We have to be ready for the next round whenever & wherever that will be...

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EXACTLY Mosin! It will never happen though cause all dudes wanna do is cry.

 

Remember the old adage... "Actions speak louder than words" ????

 

I’m not a betting man, however if I were I’d bet if it weren’t for the actions of those here it would have sailed right though the committee. At least is it stymied for now…. The members here that pointed out that existing law already has this covered likely helped our cause.

 

Let’s face it the idiots in Trenton are clueless and love to pile on layer after layer of useless gun laws onto law abiding citizens, for what? . Like I stated earlier EVERY and ANY proposed gun law should be shot down, we have enough gun laws. Like the old sayings, so do I

 

"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."

- Plato (427-347 B.C.)

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IMO............it's a waiting game here in NJ. I've been living in my home for some 30 years and have seen my neighborhood go through changes......it's now changing again with more minority 1st time home buyers moving in......the key here is minority.....these neighbors are not shooters, fishermen, hunters or outdoor types at all.

This state is changing...........gun law proponents, IMO......will tough it out as long as they can waiting for the neighborhhod climates to go through thier change while the older gun proponents leave NJ one way or another.

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IMO............it's a waiting game here in NJ. I've been living in my home for some 30 years and have seen my neighborhood go through changes......it's now changing again with more minority 1st time home buyers moving in......the key here is minority.....these neighbors are not shooters, fishermen, hunters or outdoor types at all.

This state is changing...........gun law proponents, IMO......will tough it out as long as they can waiting for the neighborhhod climates to go through thier change while the older gun proponents leave NJ one way or another.

 

It doesn't mean they can't become those things. Lots of people move to the suburbs or rural areas looking for those things. If you befriend any of them try to get them to come out shooting with you or fishing etc. Many people will get hooked once they get a taste. IMO the key to keeping our gun rights has less to do with politicians than with ensuring an ever growing population of shooters or at the very least informed/educated on the subject people.

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I agree...........but don't speak the language and not going to hand a loaded firearm to just anyone who doesn't understand my commands......sorry.

IMO.............the times they are a changin'.........and someone knows it.

 

Similarly..........back in the 90's when I was an active participant in NJ Firearms training and meetings the percieved threat back the was anti-hunters.....Oh the Anti's were gonna put a stop to hunting in NJ......Ha....as I told them. Now +20 years later......it wasn't the anti's.........it was the Bulldozer as I predicted then. 90% of lost land to hunting in this state is do to over development for tax revenues.

 

The Anti 2A people are well awhere that the populous here is changing and by holding out or creating more smoke screend laws IMO is just a stall until my generation is gone.....which will be sooner than you think.

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