Legality of carry knives in NJ

[keithco88 3]

Sorry, I tried trolling the other threads but couldn't find the answer to my question. What's the letter of the law on carry knives in NJ, in length and function (fixed vs assisted vs auto vs manual folder)?

 

I have a Spyderco Cara Cara 2 that I really like, but I'm pretty sure by the letter of the law it's illegal because of that whole "need to have it" or "intended use thing". Basically I need to be able to say I use it for work or I can't have it. This has brought me to just carrying my new Leatherman Wingman that has an external blade on it. Ain't sexy but it'd work in a pinch.

 

If I found a sub 3" manual folder could I carry that? At that point is it even worth it?

 

No I'm not trained with a knife, would like to take a class...but again only if the class has practical application. I don't want to take a class that practices with fixed or 4" folders when I'll never have that on me because if I get unlucky and run into a cop having a bad day it's not worth the risk.

[rdsmith3 19]

Check out this thread

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/31351-what-do-you-do-with-that-expensive-cuttleryanyway/

[Jon 264]

NJ State Law basically says you need a purpose to carry whatever knife you choose to carry, and self defense doesn't count. As long as you can communicate a reason for having a 14" bowie knife on your belt, you're good to go. There is no minimum/maximum length. The only things specifically prohibited are gravity, butterfly, and automatic knives. Assisted openers are fine.

[BarkNBite 15]

That's why I posted that thread earlier...........seems to me if your stopped by LE, it could result in 3 hots and a cot and a trip to meet the judge......and would that effect your ability to own firearms in this state....?

 

Would like some opinions of LEO's on here............

 

Mine is just a 3" Gerber folder.......utility type blade.....nothin' special.

[Jon 264]

That's why I posted that thread earlier...........seems to me if your stopped by LE, it could result in 3 hots and a cot and a trip to meet the judge......and would that effect your ability to own firearms in this state....?

 

Would like some opinions of LEO's on here............

 

Mine is just a 3" Gerber folder.......utility type blade.....nothin' special.

 

If you're that paranoid, you need to leave the state. In NJ you can be arrested for anything, lest we forget... "When dealing with guns, the citizen acts at his own peril" -NJ Supreme Court

[Darkmagik 2]

Some uninformed cops usually will tell you no it's not legal, but again they don't read you can legally carry a knife as long as it doesn't meet the criteria to be a "with a reasonable lawful explination." Theoretically speaking every knife is legal, yet a select few have a "a reasonable lawful explination" needed to own, posses or carry what that explination is not defined by law so it is under interpretation from a LEO so by using good judgement I would steer away from anything that may cause an uninformed LEO that doesn't know the law from making a decision to arrest you. Stick with manual folders, assisted oppening knives, or even fixed blades. The only true restriction is blade length if you are a minor it has to be less than 4 inches from tip to end of the blade. If you are not a minor in no place mentioned in the law does it say a blade length restriction. The common LEO myth is the four fingers length rule which is total nonsense that is completely made us just print out the law and keep a copy handy so when questioned hand the LEO the paper with the law and say nothing have them do the reference check to make sure it is right and you did nothign wrong. That's my 0.02 cents on the interpretation of the vague and useless PRNJ law.

[vladtepes 1,060]

The only true restriction is blade length if you are a minor it has to be less than 4 inches from tip to end of the blade.

 

 

can you tell me where you found that law?

 

2C:39-9.1. Sale of knives to minors; crime of the fourth degree; exceptions

 

4. A person who sells any hunting, fishing, combat or survival knife having a blade length of five inches or more or an overall length of 10 inches or more to a person under 18 years of age commits a crime of the fourth degree; except that the establishment by a preponderance of the evidence of all of the following facts by a person making the sale shall constitute an affirmative defense to any prosecution therefor: a. that the purchaser falsely represented his age by producing a driver's license bearing a photograph of the licensee, or by producing a photographic identification card issued pursuant to section 2 of P.L.1980, c. 47 (C.39:3-29.3), or by producing a similar card purporting to be a valid identification card indicating that he was 18 years of age or older, and b. that the appearance of the purchaser was such

that an ordinary prudent person would believe him to be 18 years of age or older, and c. that the sale was made in good faith relying upon the indicators of age listed in a.and b. above.

[Darkmagik 2]

Use to be four but i guess they changed it to 5 see bellow you even wrote it.

 

2C:39-9.1.   Sale of knives to minors; crime of the fourth degree; exceptions

 A person who sells any hunting, fishing, combat or survival knife having a blade length of FIVE inches or more or an overall length of 10 inches or more to a person UNDER 18 years of age commits a crime of the fourth degree;

[Anselmo 87]

Use to be four but i guess they changed it to 5 see bellow you even wrote it.

 

2C:39-9.1. Sale of knives to minors; crime of the fourth degree; exceptions

A person who sells any hunting, fishing, combat or survival knife having a blade length of FIVE inches or more or an overall length of 10 inches or more to a person UNDER 18 years of age commits a crime of the fourth degree;

 

That is prohibition on the sale of the knife and the seller is one breaking the law. Nothing about the minor carrying the knife has broken the law.

[vladtepes 1,060]

That is prohibition on the sale of the knife and the seller is one breaking the law. Nothing about the minor carrying the knife has broken the law.

 

this...

[Adam 6]

Carry an "auto safety" knife. Window break, seatbelt cutter etc.. I've been questioned on it, and I simply inform them I always have it when driving for a "whoops" scenario and it could possibly save my life

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Just had this happen again today. I attended a knife class, and asked if my SOG Aegis would be effective for SD. It's this one:

http://www.absoluteknives.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=AE02

Mind you, I only carry it so I can open boxes, cut twine, and occasionally take the tops off wine bottles. An LEO who was present (a very nice guy, I might add) advised me that I was committing a felony, because "spring assisted" knives are illegal in NJ. Heck, I bought the thing on Amazon! I could not find anything in the laws to say that there is anything inherently illegal in my carrying it. Anyone care to comment?

[this_is_nascar 162]

Just had this happen again today. I attended a knife class, and asked if my SOG Aegis would be effective for SD. It's this one:

http://www.absolutek...action&key=AE02

Mind you, I only carry it so I can open boxes, cut twine, and occasionally take the tops off wine bottles. An LEO who was present (a very nice guy, I might add) advised me that I was committing a felony, because "spring assisted" knives are illegal in NJ. Heck, I bought the thing on Amazon! I could not find anything in the laws to say that there is anything inherently illegal in my carrying it. Anyone care to comment?

 

 

During the holidays, I recall a bunch of guys buying the Kershaw Ken Onion Leek Folding Knife with Speed Safe. Doesn't that fall into this same category?

[vladtepes 1,060]

here is the problem as I read...

 

2C:39-3. Prohibited Weapons and Devices.

 

e. Certain weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any gravity knife, switchblade knife, dagger, dirk, stiletto, billy, blackjack, metal knuckle, sandclub, slingshot, cestus or similar leather band studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood, ballistic knife, without any explainable lawful purpose, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

 

Definition of SWITCHBLADE

 

: a pocketknife having the blade spring-operated so that pressure on a release catch causes it to fly open —called also switchblade knife

 

 

the simple definition of switchblade pretty much encompasses any spring assist knife.. knife under pressure.. that springs open..

so then you refer to the law itself.. and it goes on about lawful purpose.. which again is very vague.. it essentially means you have to within reason convince the officer that the knife you are carrying is reasonable for what you claim its lawful use is.. can you open boxes at work with a bayonet.. sure.. you could.. but not really a reasonable use.. so you will now be explaining to the officer that your black tactical looking spring assisted knife is needed for every day carry.. which depending on the officer will be an easy or hard sell.. the problem with the law.. is that it requires judgment and articulation of use.. there is no set in stone standard.. and the knifes type MAY carry some weight on the outcome..

[Fabricator 0]

I bought a Gerber Fast draw straight blade spring assist knife at walmart,i carry it every day with no problems for 2 years. Assist knife are legal because there is no button in the handle that opens the knife. You still have to push the blade open a little bit to get it to open until the spring takes over.

[vladtepes 1,060]

. Assist knife are legal because there is no button in the handle that opens the knife. You still have to push the blade open a little bit to get it to open until the spring takes over.

 

where does the law say that..

[Qel Hoth 33]

where does the law say that..

 

Assisted knives are not specifically mentioned anywhere in NJSA, however here are the relevant bits.

 

2C:39-1 Definitions

h."Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force.

 

u."Ballistic knife" means any weapon or other device capable of lethal use and which can propel a knife blade.

 

p."Switchblade knife" means any knife or similar device which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife.

 

r."Weapon" means anything readily capable of lethal use or of inflicting serious bodily injury. The term includes, but is not limited to, all (1) firearms, even though not loaded or lacking a clip or other component to render them immediately operable; (2) components which can be readily assembled into a weapon; (3) gravity knives, switchblade knives, daggers, dirks, stilettos, or other dangerous knives, billies, blackjacks, bludgeons, metal knuckles, sandclubs, slingshots, cesti or similar leather bands studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood; and (4) stun guns; and any weapon or other device which projects, releases, or emits tear gas or any other substance intended to produce temporary physical discomfort or permanent injury through being vaporized or otherwise dispensed in the air.

 

2C:39-3 Prohibited Weapons

 

e.Certain weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any gravity knife, switchblade knife, dagger, dirk, stiletto, billy, blackjack, metal knuckle, sandclub, slingshot, cestus or similar leather band studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood, ballistic knife, without any explainable lawful purpose, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

2C:39-5 Unlawful Possession of Weapons

 

d.Other weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any other weapon under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

 

 

 

 

Assisted knives obviously aren't gravity knives since they will not deploy by centripetal force alone, nor are they ballistic knives. By definition, most assisted knives are not switchblades because they are deployed by a thumb stud or other protrusion on the blade of the knife, not the handle. However, certain assisted knives may be in a grey area (Smith & Wesson M&P comes to mind) because they are deployed by a button or switch on the handle that pushes the blade out of the handle. Under federal law these are not switchblades because they do not deploy solely by force of spring, under NJ law it is vague.

 

Since knives that are obviously deployed by a protrusion on the blade itself are not switchblades, they are not subject to 2C:39-3e. However, they are subject to 2C:39-5d, and as such you much be able to present a reason for possession on demand.

[Fabricator 0]

Yeah, what he said.

[vladtepes 1,060]

good for posting the exact NJ definition I can't believe I didnt think to look there.. +1

 

unfortunately now seeing the law it is even worse..

because EVERY knife you can flick open would be a "gravity knife"

 

h."Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force.

 

OR the application of centrifugal force..

the blade spins around a center point in a circular motion to deploy it.. so would that not cover ALL of those knives that most of us carry? again I am all for carrying a knife.. but as the law is written?

[vladtepes 1,060]

but here is another twist.. we have always assumed that switch blades.. gravity knives.. etc.. are illegal.. BUT reading the actual law..

 

e.Certain weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any gravity knife, switchblade knife, dagger, dirk, stiletto, billy, blackjack, metal knuckle, sandclub, slingshot, cestus or similar leather band studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood, ballistic knife, without any explainable lawful purpose, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

even the "bad knives" appear to be listed with the same exclusion..

illegal to have.. UNLESS there is a lawful purpose?

 

"I have a switchblade at work because I use it to open sealed boxes"

 

would that not technically be legal?

[johnp 45]

but here is another twist.. we have always assumed that switch blades.. gravity knives.. etc.. are illegal.. BUT reading the actual law..

 

 

 

even the "bad knives" appear to be listed with the same exclusion..

illegal to have.. UNLESS there is a lawful purpose?

 

"I have a switchblade at work because I use it to open sealed boxes"

 

would that not technically be legal?

 

 

Good point but if they fell under the same exclusion, then why would they specifically name a select few 'bad' knifes? NJs knife laws are way too vague. I asked the detective in my town, if mine was legal. He pulled out the law book and said there is no law on length. And told me my 10" bowie knife was acceptable, I carry it everywhere, and never had a problem with le.

[this_is_nascar 162]

With the laws being what they are for firearms in NJ, why doesn't it surprise me that they're similar for knives?

[BarkNBite 15]

Exactly...........the vagueness of all these laws made purposely for that reason, should be deemed unconstitional.....IMO.

We are to blame......keep electing these L.LW. lawyers........just pathetic.....IMO.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Good point but if they fell under the same exclusion, then why would they specifically name a select few 'bad' knifes? NJs knife laws are way too vague. I asked the detective in my town, if mine was legal. He pulled out the law book and said there is no law on length. And told me my 10" bowie knife was acceptable, I carry it everywhere, and never had a problem with le.

 

don't ask why NJ laws are illogical.. lol you wont get far trying to figure that out..

 

but the knives are listed..

and then it goes on to say "lawful purpose"

meaning right or wrong.. the LAW views a switchblade the same as a swiss army knife..

emotion tells us differently.. but what the law SAYS is that you can have these.. if there is a lawful purpose..

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

don't ask why NJ laws are illogical.. lol you wont get far trying to figure that out..

 

but the knives are listed..

and then it goes on to say "lawful purpose"

meaning right or wrong.. the LAW views a switchblade the same as a swiss army knife..

emotion tells us differently.. but what the law SAYS is that you can have these.. if there is a lawful purpose..

 

It looks like NJ knife laws were deliberately written to give LEO's a good deal of latitude. I suppose if questioned, we get one shot to make our case that our chosen blade has "an explainable lawful purpose." I have had more than one LEO tell me that a lot depends on context, that a well dressed, apparently law abiding citizen is going to get a lot more slack than someone who appears to be a gangbanger. Seems pretty unfair, but given that paradigm, I'm thankful to be more in the former category.

[RecessedFilter 222]

I don't see spring-assisted knives as being illegal. The only two knives that come anywhere close to spring assisted are gravity knives and switchblades, which spring-assisted knives fall under neither.

 

As I read the law, gravity knives are knives that can be opened with centrifugal force/gravity. That means just flinging the knife open without touching a thumb stud or button.

 

Switchblades are knives that allow the blade to open using a button. The only thing that is on the grey line here, in reference to spring-assisted blades, are the knives with a 'index stud' on them. If you are unfamiliar with these, basically the knife might not have a 'thumb stud' on the actual blade but instead, on the back of the blade, opposite side of the thumb stud, is a small stud built into the back of the blade that you can 'fling' with your index finger thus allowing the blade to open. The question is, is that considered a button or not? IMO, no it is not a button.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Interesting. Does that mean I should have never been able to own my Benchmade 3100 in NJ?

 

 

http://www.benchmade.com/products/3100

[BarkNBite 15]

Probably..........according to our elected officials.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I don't see spring-assisted knives as being illegal. The only two knives that come anywhere close to spring assisted are gravity knives and switchblades, which spring-assisted knives fall under neither.

 

As I read the law, gravity knives are knives that can be opened with centrifugal force/gravity. That means just flinging the knife open without touching a thumb stud or button.

 

Switchblades are knives that allow the blade to open using a button. The only thing that is on the grey line here, in reference to spring-assisted blades, are the knives with a 'index stud' on them. If you are unfamiliar with these, basically the knife might not have a 'thumb stud' on the actual blade but instead, on the back of the blade, opposite side of the thumb stud, is a small stud built into the back of the blade that you can 'fling' with your index finger thus allowing the blade to open. The question is, is that considered a button or not? IMO, no it is not a button.

 

did you read through the whole thread.. it appears NO knives are outright illegal..

 

 

e.Certain weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any gravity knife, switchblade knife, dagger, dirk, stiletto, billy, blackjack, metal knuckle, sandclub, slingshot, cestus or similar leather band studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood, ballistic knife,

 

without any explainable lawful purpose,

 

is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

meaning.. if you are in possession of a switchblade.. without an explainable lawful purpose.. you are guilty..

meaning LITERALLY as the law is written.. you can have a switchblade (and dagger.. and gravity knife.. and brass knuckles..)

as long as you have an "explainable lawful purpose"

 

there appears (legally) to be no distinction between your run of the mill average pocket knife.. and a dagger.. as long as there is "an explainable lawful purpose" so what the knife actually is.. is pretty much moot..

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

So it sounds like any of us who carry any kind of blade should have a carefully prepared, well rehearsed "explainable legal purpose."