PNC Bank Outta Their Minds! Let's give-up more Constitutional Rights

[M4BGRINGO 139]

I use PNC because it is within walking distance to my shop and WAWA doesn't charge ATM fees.

 

Well............My buddy that works there told me to apply for one of their credit cards, I figured why not if it helps her out. I am instantly approved and get the paperwork a few weeks later in the mail.

 

I read the Agreement and right on the front page is this: I must relinquish my right to a jury trial in order to accept their credit card. Well, I couldn't cut that credit card up fast enough! Still haven't written them a nasty letter asking them what they think they are doing.

 

Anyone else ever seen such a thing?

 

Why in the world would I need to give-up my rights to a Jury Trial against PNC should the need arise? I don't know why I would ever need to take PNC to court, but there is no way in he!! that I will sign an agreement stating I relinquish my rights to do so!

[BarkNBite 15]

Relinguish your right to a jury trial...............for what ? Maybe if they sue you for non-payment ?

What else could it be ? Did you ask ?

[dgstinner 11]

JURY TRIAL WAIVER NOTICE

This credit card agreement includes a

section called “Jury Trial Waiver,” which is

an agreement to waive any right to trial by

jury in the event of litigation between you

and PNC Bank. Please refer to Section 29

for details.

Section 29 says:

 

JURY TRIAL WAIVER. TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, YOU AND WE WAIVE ANY RIGHT TO

ANY TRIAL BY JURY IN THE EVENT OF LITIGATION ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED TO THIS

AGREEMENT. YOU AND WE EACH REPRESENT THAT THIS WAIVER IS KNOWINGLY, WILLINGLY

AND VOLUNTARILY GIVEN.

 

It sounds to me that you're agreeing more to an arbitration instead of litigation, should the need ever arise.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I'm not an attorney, but it's my understanding that if you ever needed to take them to court, you could still do so, but with a judge presiding (as is often done in civil suits) rather than a jury. I'm pretty sure they can't ask you to totally waive your right to take them to court.

[Midwest 28]

Never heard anything like this before, is PNC Bank the only one doing this?

[rdsmith3 19]

I think it is fairly standard for anything to do with money. If you have investments in a mutual fund, or use a stock broker, they all make you sign something that says you will use arbitration, not a jury trial, if you have a dispute. It is industry practice. I do not agree with it, but good luck trying to find someone that does not require this.

[BarkNBite 15]

Nobody wins in Arbitration..............only loosers.

[e80hydro 120]

Pay with cash. F the banks credit card.

[TheLugNutZ 21]

I have a PNC cc, but only use it as overdraft protection. I'll have to check the AMEX, Chase and BOA cards...

[TheLugNutZ 21]

Pay with cash. F the banks credit card.

 

Yeah, good luck trying to build any credit that way. Gotta use credit to build it. At 21 I was able to sign for my car with no co-signers/applicants and was able to get a sub 6% int rate (was good at the time).

 

We (fiance and I) net a good $50+ a month on cash back as well and have NEVER paid a penny in interest. So tell me again, why should I cut up my cards?

[M4BGRINGO 139]

JURY TRIAL WAIVER NOTICE

This credit card agreement includes a

section called “Jury Trial Waiver,” which is

an agreement to waive any right to trial by

jury in the event of litigation between you

and PNC Bank. Please refer to Section 29

for details.

Section 29 says:

 

JURY TRIAL WAIVER. TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, YOU AND WE WAIVE ANY RIGHT TO

ANY TRIAL BY JURY IN THE EVENT OF LITIGATION ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED TO THIS

AGREEMENT. YOU AND WE EACH REPRESENT THAT THIS WAIVER IS KNOWINGLY, WILLINGLY

AND VOLUNTARILY GIVEN.

 

It sounds to me that you're agreeing more to an arbitration instead of litigation, should the need ever arise.

 

Thanks, that is the agreement I was looking for at home and could not find.

 

I only applied for the card to help our friend, but the card is cut-up and will be returned. There is absolutely no reason to ask me to give-up my rights to a Jury Trial. I have one personal CC that I use, a few business cards too. I do not recall seeing anything like that with my Chase/Amazon card, need to check.

 

Gotta check the Mutual Fund deal, I have a Simple IRA here at the shop, do not remember seeing anything like that on any of the paperwork I did. Same goes for all my accounts at TD.

[e80hydro 120]

Yeah, good luck trying to build any credit that way. Gotta use credit to build it. At 21 I was able to sign for my car with no co-signers/applicants and was able to get a sub 6% int rate (was good at the time).

 

We (fiance and I) net a good $50+ a month on cash back as well and have NEVER paid a penny in interest. So tell me again, why should I cut up my cards?

 

If you have to brag about how awesome you are on the internet your probably not.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

If you have to brag about how awesome you are on the internet your probably not.

What? he brought up a very valid point... CC are just the same as cash, and in most cases 100% better then a debit card IF you use it responsibly. You can use it to build credit at which point you accumulate a high credit score and save even more money if the need ever arises to obtain a loan or finance.. The fact is.. with out credit is just the same as having a horrible credit score, you will never get a good rate on a mortgage or a car if at all... and people don't drop their life savings on these things and pay in "cash" even if they have it readily availible.

[Zell959 40]

It sounds to me that you're agreeing more to an arbitration instead of litigation, should the need ever arise.

 

 

Agreed. Also, the terms of a contract can also always be challenged in court and contract terms that are particularly punative or slanted excessively to one party's favor will often get thrown out when challened in a legal proceeding.

[TheLugNutZ 21]

If you have to brag about how awesome you are on the internet your probably not.

 

Just giving you a real word example of why credit cards (if used the right way) can be a good thing. You ever plan on buying a home? I mean your home range says a van, ever plan on stepping it up a bit?

[djg0770 481]

Wait - you read the fine print? WTF you go and do that for. Now when I go to court and say "Nobody reads the fine print" they're gonna bring your azz in and say "This guy does"...

[Kaiser7 33]

Yeah, good luck trying to build any credit that way. Gotta use credit to build it. At 21 I was able to sign for my car with no co-signers/applicants and was able to get a sub 6% int rate (was good at the time).

 

We (fiance and I) net a good $50+ a month on cash back as well and have NEVER paid a penny in interest. So tell me again, why should I cut up my cards?

 

What card would you recommend. As a rule, I don't buy anything I don't have the cash for, but I NEED to build up credit, i order to take out more student loans. I need to find a way to do that.

 

Odds are, I'd only use it for small crap I could pay off right away.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

What card would you recommend. As a rule, I don't buy anything I don't have the cash for, but I NEED to build up credit, i order to take out more student loans. I need to find a way to do that.

 

Odds are, I'd only use it for small crap I could pay off right away.

Any card, in particular one that would offer you rewards you can actually use. Go to your bank, and speak with them. If you are responsible any card will work, but i would stick with a VISA, as it accepted just about everywhere. People will try and find a low rate on cc, but if you pay your balance off in full it doesn't matter what the rate is, cause your never charged.

 

The only time it's important to really find a good card is if you dont plan on paying off the balance, because some of them will rape you, but the reality is they will probably all have a high interest rate eitherway.

[Kaiser7 33]

Any card, in particular one that would offer you rewards you can actually use. Go to your bank, and speak with them. If you are responsible any card will work, but i would stick with a VISA, as it accepted just about everywhere. People will try and find a low rate on cc, but if you pay your balance off in full it doesn't matter what the rate is, cause your never charged.

 

The only time it's important to really find a good card is if you dont plan on paying off the balance, because some of them will rape you.

 

I have a Bank of America checking account, and a TD savings. I got my savings over at TD (because I'm sure people are wondering) because my family uses the coin counting thing a lot, and I did it so I could get their stuff counted without them having to pay a fee.

 

I feel like bank of America would be the way to go.

[Maksim 1,504]

Standard Arbitration agreement.

 

Typically with all financial related matters, you waive right to a jury trial, and go to binding arbitration, which is a lot cheaper for everyone.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I have a Bank of America checking account, and a TD savings. I got my savings over at TD (because I'm sure people are wondering) because my family uses the coin counting thing a lot, and I did it so I could get their stuff counted without them having to pay a fee.

 

I feel like bank of America would be the way to go.

Funny u should mention that, i have a td savings account from years ago with like a dollar in it, just so i can use the penny acrade!! haha

All my "real" accounts are with chase, if i keep a certain balance in my savings, my checking account is free. i would go with where ever you have your checking account and do regular business. I do all my checking online now, and my cc is actually listed in my account with my checking and saving and i can keep track and pay everything from one account. I don't deal with anything paper related and i haven't been to a bank teller in over a year.

[Kaiser7 33]

Funny u should mention that, i have a td savings account from years ago with like a dollar in it, just so i can use the penny acrade!! haha

All my "real" accounts are with chase, if i keep a certain balance in my savings, my checking account is free. i would go with where ever you have your checking account and do regular business. I do all my checking online now, and my cc is actually listed in my account with my checking and saving and i can keep track and pay everything from one account.

 

I more or less just scrape by. It takes a LONG time for me to save money for anything extra. For instance, I've been saving for a few months for a semi-auto rifle, not buying videogames, or clothes, or anything else. Granted, I usually get $20 for Valentines day, and my Birthday is on the 19th, and I've been selling stuff online, so I tried to plan it for this time of year when I get a good bit of money.

 

I'll have to look into it. Credit cards scare me though, I REALLY don't like owing money....

[O-gre 7]

ALL brokerage and Banks have this legislation!

[TheLugNutZ 21]

CCs can be tough, and its real easy to get in over your head if not careful.

 

When starting out, just buy a certain thing with credit. Maybe gas… So each time you fill up, keep the receipt and put that cash aside so you know how much the CC bill will be at the end of the month and you will already have the money put aside for it.

 

You will improve your credit score, history, and improve your history w/ that particular bank.

 

Personally we use an Amex Blue Cash card for anywhere that takes amex (its also 6% back on gas and groceries, so its a really good card) and 1%-3% on everything else.

Another good card is the Chase Freedom Visa. Thats our 2nd card when we cannot use the Amex and is also 1%-5% on everything depending on the quarterly promotion.

[SW9racer 262]

Need a credit card for the warrenty extensions, rental car coverage, accidental breakage coverage, guarenteed refunds, cash back, credit scores...

Just dont carry a balance!

[tommy3rd 132]

Yeah, good luck trying to build any credit that way. Gotta use credit to build it.

not really. If you have the money, they will find you and offer you all kinds of stuff. that's how banks are.

 

funny story...

my old boss was worth at least 20 million dollars and never had a card in his life. he paid using checks or cash, and never even owned a car. he hired a limo service full time. He decided to apply for a card and got denied. he called his bank and said "could you tell these guys how much i'm worth." Needless to say, he got his card the following day.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

not really. If you have the money, they will find you and offer you all kinds of stuff. that's how banks are.

 

funny story...

my old boss was worth at least 20 million dollars and never had a card in his life. he paid using checks or cash, and never even owned a car. he hired a limo service full time. He decided to apply for a card and got denied. he called his bank and said "could you tell these guys how much i'm worth." Needless to say, he got his card the following day.

 

That's not credit, being able to get a credit card means nothing... having good credit means you get low interest rates, and having a lot of money doesn't give you good credit, you could have 20million in the bank and not pay one bill, your credit score would be ****, but you are still rich, you would still pay a **** load in interest if you ever financed anything.

 

I was denied a card, talked to my bank rep. and she got them to give it to me.... i had very little money in the bank.

The fact is, companies only offer their services to people they think will make them money, like college students and irresponsible people who will make them money paying interest. I was denied because i have always had money in the bank, and to them i looked responsible, even if my account didn't have thousands in it.

When i was in school and broke, i received offers in the mail every week, when i got a good paying job guess what? they stopped coming..

 

RICH PEOPLE do NOT make CC companies money, poor/irresponsible people do.

[Qel Hoth 33]

RICH PEOPLE do NOT make CC companies money, poor/irresponsible people do.

 

That's not entirely accurate.

 

CC companies get a percent of the total sale, plus a swipe fee every single time the card is swiped, so even those who never carry a balance, like myself, still give the CC companies money albeit indirectly. The swipe fees range between 5 and 25 cents, and the company gets between .5% and 4.5% of the charge, depending on the card and company. AMEX is the highest by far, which is why many places won't accept AMEX.

 

For a number of reasons I only use cash in limited situations, though I do always carry a small amount with me.

1) Credit cards make tracking expenses infinitely easier, since every month I get a statement that tells me how much I spent where. If I used cash I would have to save receipts and input the data manually.

2) If my CC ever gets stolen, I can call the bank, cancel it, have a new one in 2-3 days, and be out the $20 I keep in my wallet. If I used only cash and it got stolen, I'm out anywhere from 20-150, depending on the day and what I was doing.

3) Paying by card is simpler and faster in most circumstances, and all but eliminates the possibility of being short changed.

 

There are some situations where I prefer to use cash though, primarily when I am dealing with small, local businesses.

 

My statement comes on the 14th, on the 15th I schedule a payment for the full balance due to be paid 5 days before the payment is due. That way I can't forget about it and I get to get the small amount of interest instead of the bank.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Wait - you read the fine print? WTF you go and do that for. Now when I go to court and say "Nobody reads the fine print" they're gonna bring your azz in and say "This guy does"...

 

Sorry dude, that's just me.

 

I don't think you can rent a car without a CC, among other things. Pay for something with a CC and you have someone in your corner should something go wrong. Pay in cash, you're outta luck..............

[Anselmo 87]

I don't see the big deal about waiving right to jury trial for my credit cards. I'm sure my credit cards have the same verbiage and I sleep fine at night.