Pastor's daughter accidentally shot at Florida church

[TheWombat 67]

http://www.foxnews.c...florida-church/

 

 

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. – Authorities say the daughter of a pastor was accidentally shot in the head at a church in St. Petersburg.

 

The Pinellas County Sheriff's Office was called to the Grace Connection Church Sunday at about 12:24 p.m.

Investigators say Moises Zambrana was showing his gun to another church member interested in buying a firearm. Zambrana has a concealed weapons permit and reportedly took out the gun's magazine but did not know there was a bullet in the chamber.

 

The gun went off and fired through a wall, striking 20-year-old Hannah Kelley. She was critically injured and transported to Bayfront Medical Center.

 

No charges have been filed. The investigation is ongoing.

 

I am sure examples such as this will be used to either push for Magazine Disconnectors on firearms (such as in California) or for the anti-gun lobby. The sad thing is that this accident was entirely avoidable if the basic rules of firearms were followed and the firearm was treated as loaded.

 

TheWombat

[blksheep 466]

This is a prime example that some sort of training should be needed for CCW. As much as I hate being told what to do as much as the next guy, this is a prime example. Hopefully the girl makes a full recovery.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Yes sad but entirely avoidable as you say if you follow the 4 basic rules of gun handling. Will something like this push Mag-disconnect, very doubtful. Either way, you can always mod a gun to get rid of that feature.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

This is a prime example that some sort of training should be needed for CCW. As much as I hate being told what to do as much as the next guy, this is a prime example. Hopefully the girl makes a full recovery.

 

No it should not be part of the training NEEDED for CCW, I don't remember seeing anything in those 27 words that say anything to that effect.

 

Now I will say, anyone who choses to carry, or anyone who owns firearms should take it upon themselves to get properly trained, but making it a requirements, well that's just unconstitutional..

[Sandy 44]

What a tragedy. My heart goes out to the family .

 

As for reporting , notice how when the ND or shooting comes from the hand of a legal owner or carrier , which is rare , that info is included in the article. However , when the gunman illegally is in possession they never say a peep about the fact that he was in violation..they'll just report the incident and leave that tidbit out.

[Dan 177]

Very sad story, and completely irks me. Just like any other tool or instrument that when abused or not handled properly can be very serious, like a motor vehicle.

 

It will be just another notch in the anti's bag against CCW, I doubt they will try to push for mechanical gun modification mandates, their plan is much larger then that.

[Shane45 807]

I have the constitutional right to not get shot in the head by some jackass too. After much consideration trying to find a balance between public safety and 2A freedoms and concern over abuse of such a requirement, the conclusion I believe works for all is a class requirement that the pass or fail is based on attendance. But I do believe there should be a training requirement. I will gladely sit through a class so that people like the one in the article have to as well. It is these people that will cost us our rights!

 

 

Disclaimer. This opinion is my own and does not reflect the official position of NJ2AS on the subject.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I have the constitutional right to not get shot in the head by some jackass too. After much consideration trying to find a balance between public safety and 2A freedoms and concern over abuse of such a requirement, the conclusion I believe works for all is a class requirement that the pass or fail is based on attendance. But I do believe there should be a training requirement. I will gladely sit through a class so that people like the one in the article have to as well. It is these people that will cost us our rights!

 

 

Disclaimer. This opinion is my own and does not reflect the official position of NJ2AS on the subject.

 

I don't think it should be a requirement at all, but I do see a happy compromise being I also understand that I don't want people who don't know how to handle a gun hurting people. Here is one that would take a little time to complete, but would not infringe on our 2A rights either. I say going through our school systems, they should have a semester of a side class that is required prior to graduating on gun handling. Will that happen, probably not, but it would satisfy training and not going against what is written in the 2A.

[PK90 3,570]

Again, IMO no training should be required. The constitution does not state training is required to exercise your right to bear arms.

 

I would guess that the person who sold the gun trained the purchaser how to unload it. I would guess that the manual states how to unload it. I would guess that the owner knew how to unload it. Stupid is stupid. Careless is careless.

[Sandy 44]

There is also the chance that this guy was trained and was knowledgable , you don't/can't know either way based on this article.. Sometimes with things of this ilk people get too comfortable with their extensive experience and lose respect for their gun , and then get a tragic reminder of the gravity of a careless error with a firearm .

 

It makes me think of skydiving (Pete use to skydive extensively ) ..the tragedies due to careless mistakes were certainly not limited to new inexperienced jumpers. They are probably the safest because they follow every rule and are extremely careful because they are scared s&itless and don't want to die. As the jumps add up and they get experience the fear can go down. Routine little safety checks are forgotten , more chances are taken . Pete will correct if I'm wrong but the 25 or 30 deaths or so a year a mostly experienced skydivers making mistakes that a respectful newb would not make.

 

Anyway , there are probably plenty of similar parellels that show training and experience does not automatically = saf-ER.

[Babaganoosh 192]

Just got a new m&p. It says right on the side of the gun that it will fire with the magazine removed.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Same thing on my Px4 Storm.

[LorenzoS 100]

Out of all the millons concealed carriers in the country, if you search the news you are bound to find cases like this. On that day you can also find cases where people killed themselves falling off a ladder, skiing, etc. It's a good way to remind ourselves to be careful but using one bonehead move to drive a change in policy is not productive.

[Old School 611]

No it should not be part of the training NEEDED for CCW, I don't remember seeing anything in those 27 words that say anything to that effect. Now I will say, anyone who choses to carry, or anyone who owns firearms should take it upon themselves to get properly trained, but making it a requirements, well that's just unconstitutional..

In principle I agree Harry, and I gave you a +1... Here's the rub. We as a society cannot overlook irresponcible handling of a firearm. So you carry as you have the right to do so. But, if you F-up you pay a heavy price I mean heavy. The firearm retailers association should be pro active and take up on this training volentarily if they want to keep selling firearms. We here are all "gun nuts" and many know their firearms better than their significant others. This is not the case w/ all CCW peeps. The industry should step up.

[Sandy 44]

Out of all the millons concealed carriers in the country, if you search the news you are bound to find cases like this. On that day you can also find cases where people killed themselves falling off a ladder, skiing, etc. It's a good way to remind ourselves to be careful but using one bonehead move to drive a change in policy is not productive.

 

Here is some data I collected recently . As a mother in a home with small children where guns are kept legally and safely , I have had to arm myself with some quick facts to answer to any regurgitated anti gun rhetoric I may get from family , friends , and parents of my children's friends. All this stuff is super easy to look up , I used years where official data was last available( 2006 and 2007). But the anti gun crowd would never look it up :

 

Incidence extrapolations for USA for Accidental death: 93,591 per year, 7,799 per month, 1,799 per week, 256 per day, 10 per hour, 0 per minute, 0 per second.

 

There are 93,591 accidental deaths per year on average

 

In 2007 613 of them were due to accidental death by firearms

 

3443 were due to accidental drowning.

 

The antigun crowd should next set their sights on swimming , and bathing babies .Since people will never get it into their head that a 18 month should not be left unattended in a tub , not even for 20 seconds.

 

515 children 4 and under drowned in 2007 , the same year accidental firearm deaths for children 4 and under were recorded as 19. 148 killed on bicycles that year.

 

Numbers are from the CDC calculator

http://webappa.cdc.g...trate10_sy.html

 

More people aged 5 to 24 die in swimming pools than from accidental firearm discharges .

 

There are about 10 million swimming pools in the USA. Compared to an estimated 77 to 90 million gun owners. I mention this number because anti 2nd ammendment people will say "but there are way more houses with pools than with guns " WRONG.

 

In 2006 , 678 individuals between the ages of 5 and 24 died in swimming pools. In 2006 , 247 individuals between the ages of 5 and 24 died from accidents involving firearms.Given the fact that there are 7 to 9 times the amount of houshold with guns vs pools , it is a no brainer to see a child is less safe in a home with a pool than in a home with a gun and no pool. If there is a gun and a pool , they are way more likely to be killed by the pool.

 

So maybe parents should have to attend a training course before they are allowed to break ground for the pool?

 

There is just nothing statistically that supports anymore restrictions on bearing arms than what we already have.

[deadeye74 5]

If he had a Florida CCW, isn't there a requirement for the NRA first steps class to get the permit?

 

In my opinion, this is not an accident but rather a careless act.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

In principle I agree Harry, and I gave you a +1... Here's the rub. We as a society cannot overlook irresponcible handling of a firearm. So you carry as you have the right to do so. But, if you F-up you pay a heavy price I mean heavy. The firearm retailers association should be pro active and take up on this training volentarily if they want to keep selling firearms. We here are all "gun nuts" and many know their firearms better than their significant others. This is not the case w/ all CCW peeps. The industry should step up.

 

I like that, would be nice if the NR or other group promoted a free course, hands on or even a WBT (we based training) of some sort that was completely volunteer. Would it get all gun owners, no but it would catch many more than now. Plus it would show that community as a whole is more concerned abut gun safety (not that many of are not already) but a show of good faith so to speak to the general public.

 

Would it make a huge dent in the outsiders perception, maybe.maybe not, but it sure wouldn't give Anti's more ammo against us.

 

Oh ETA: Couldn't let the ""We here are all "gun nuts" and many know their firearms better than their significant others"" get by without comment.

 

Heck, we have the poster child photo of that already posted in the forum, and might I add, a few too many times...

[blksheep 466]

But with all thoses stats you know as well as I do that no one cares. Once they see that it was firearms related that is all the media cares about. I dont agree with it but that is the reality.

[PeteF 1,044]

This is clearly a case of negligence.

He got complacent and broke several rules of gun handling,

and just wasn't to bright. Why would you be showing a gun at a place of worship?

 

Everyone has rights until you prove you can't handle them.

He proved he can't.

I believe this guy should have his guns taken away and

be charged the same as any other unintended result.

Just like if you are driving and by your own negligence

injure/kill someone. I think same charges should apply.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Why would you be showing a gun at a place of worship?.

 

 

I was thinking the same thing but then I thought if you step back and look at it through history, Every single war though has had religious undertones to them, so I guess they may just go hand and hand.

[Sam02S2K 3]

I agree with PeteF

[BlueLineFish 615]

I agree with PeteF

 

As do i

[mikeyboyeee 66]

I have the constitutional right to not get shot in the head by some jackass too. After much consideration trying to find a balance between public safety and 2A freedoms and concern over abuse of such a requirement, the conclusion I believe works for all is a class requirement that the pass or fail is based on attendance. But I do believe there should be a training requirement. I will gladely sit through a class so that people like the one in the article have to as well. It is these people that will cost us our rights!

 

 

Disclaimer. This opinion is my own and does not reflect the official position of NJ2AS on the subject.

 

Agree 10000000%

[MrP 81]

Good god I can't stand when the media reports that the gun "went off". IT DIDN'T GO OFF, IT'S JUST A PIECE OF METAL, YOU PULLED THE TRIGGER DUMBASS. This was very much a negligent discharge and should be labeled as such.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Went off? Must have been a Glock.....

 

Disclaimer: TOTALLY KIDDING

[blksheep 466]

Went off? Must have been a Glock.....

 

Oh boy.

[djg0770 481]

Florida requires some sort of firearms training.

 

Unfortunately, any amount of training will not prevent the booger hook from hitting the bang stick...

[Soju 153]

You CANNOT legislate STUPIDITY!

[hd2000fxdl 422]

You CANNOT legislate STUPIDITY!

 

Some how there is an oxymoron in that statement somewhere...

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Some how there is an oxymoron in that statement somewhere...

 

"Common sense legislation"