this_is_nascar 162 Posted February 17, 2012 It's only a matter of time before I get my 1st 9mm pistol. I'm looking for ammo recommendations for target shooting and self/home defense. The plan would be to use the target ammo at the range, but then switching to the SD/HD ammo while the gun is at home. In this article, here's some 9mm thats recommended and some that you should stay away from for SD/HD. I'm interested in what you folks would recommend for Target and HD/SD. http://www.chuckhawk...y_anonymous.htm 9mm Parabellum (9mm Luger,9x19mm, 9mm NATO, or simply "9mm") This is unquestionably the world's most popular pistol round. For this reason it has been the subject of a lot of experimentation, because 9mm ball - used by every army in the Western world - is a mediocre manstopper. Jacketed hollowpoints are a must if one wishes to rely on the 9mm as a defense round. Use ball ammo for practice only. 9mm ammunition is available in two pressure levels: standard and "+P." The latter should only be used in newer guns (made since 1985 or so), and is best used sparingly. I will deal here with only commercially available ammunition: there are specialized loads available only to law enforcement personnel. Civilians should not worry, as there are commercial loads as good or better than anything restricted to law enforcement usage. I will now tell you the best 9mm Luger load for self-defense: it is the Cor-Bon 9mm 115 grain +P Jacketed Hollowpoint. This is the most powerful and street-proven manstopper available in this caliber. It is a high velocity (1340 fps) and high pressure round, and more effective than any load restricted to law enforcement use (such as the Federal 9BPLE). Unfortunately, it is also likely to jam many older guns. For this reason I add a table at the end of the 9mm section discussing round suitability for different guns. Modern hollowpoints may either (a) jam, or (b) be too powerful for some older guns. This load is suitable only for First Class pistols (see table). The best standard pressure 9mm load is the Federal 115 grain JHP (9BP). Its effectiveness and accuracy make it the world standard. Buy several boxes. Other excellent standard pressure 9mm loads are the Winchester Silvertip 115 grain (X9MMSHP), and Federal 124 grain Hydra-shok (P9HS1). For guns that may jam with the Cor-Bon or Federal 115 grain hollow-points, the Remington 115 grain +P JHP is a good choice (R9MM6). For older guns I would use the Remington standard pressure 115 gr. JHP (R9MM1). Bad 9mm Loads to avoid (and certainly NEVER carry). Numbers given: Federal Gold Medal 9mm 147 grain JHP (9MS) Federal Hydra-Shok 9mm 147 grain JHP (P9HS2) Winchester 147 grain 9mm Silvertip Subsonic JHP (X9MMST147) Winchester 147 grain 9mm Super-X Subsonic (XSUB9MM) Remington 147 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM8) Remington 147 grain 9mm Golden Saber JHP (GS9MMC) Remington 140 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM7) Remington 88 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM5) This bullet is far too light. CCI Lawman 147 grain 9mm PHP "Plated Hollow Point" (3619) Table Of 9mm Pistols. (Note: just because your pistol appears in Class 3, say, doesn't mean it is unreliable: it may indeed feed hollowpoints. But you must fire at least 200 rounds of your chosen JHP carry load to determine if your pistol will feed them properly. I have placed pistols in each category according to reputation and experience. These are only meant as guidelines - your pistol may feed JHP rounds better - or worse - than this table indicates) First Class pistols are ultra-reliable and high-quality new guns than can feed any hollowpoint and tolerate +P loads with no problems: SIG/Sauer P220 series. Czech CZ75 and CZ85. Walther P5, P5C, and P88. Heckler and Koch USP and P7 series. All Glocks. All Ruger 9mm pistols. Taurus PT-99, PT-92 and PT-92C. Steyr GB. Beretta 92 series. Browning BDM and Hi-Power (if it says "Portugal" on the slide). All Smith & Wessons with a four-digit model number (e.g. 5906, 3913, 6904, 5903) and the Smith & Wesson 900 series. Star M28, M30, M31, and all Firestars, Megastars, and Ultrastars. Second Class pistols are high quality guns that may not feed all hollowpoints reliably. Remington 115 gr. hollowpoints are recommended for these guns: Smith & Wessons with two or three digit model numbers (e.g. 659, 39-2, 469, 59, 39). Heckler and Koch VP70 and P9S. Beretta "Brigadier" M1951 and the Egyptian copy, the Interarms "Helwan." Colt M2000 "All-American" (now discontinued, for good reason), Colt Series 70 Government Model, Series 70 Commander. Astra A-70, A-75 and A-100. AMT "On Duty." Daewoo. Bersa 'Thunder 9'. EAA Witness, and all other CZ-75 copies (e.g. Tanfoglio, Tanarmi, Springfield Armory P9). Taurus PT-908. Walther P4. Star BK, BKM, Model B and 'Super.' Browning Hi-Powers without the word "Portugal" on the slide. Llama Model 82. IMI "Jericho" and "Kareen." Third Class pistols should generally be loaded with ball for best reliability - experiment with your gun extensively before carrying JHP: Walther P38, P4 or P1. Luger. Llama. Maverick. MKS Model JS. Intratec CAT-9, DC-9, KG-9, etc. SWD Cobray Model 11/9 and similar models. Scarab Scorpion. Kimel AP-9. Bryco Jennings Model 59. All KBI Hungarian pistols (e.g. GKK, PJ9C, P9HK and other "FEG" products). "Norinco" or "Sportarms" Chinese Tokarev pistols. Lahti. Radom. MAB P15 and Model 1950. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blksheep 466 Posted February 17, 2012 I generally use anything 115gr for practice. Remington UMC, Wolf Militray Classic and have had no issues out of a Glock 34,19,26 or Beretta 92FS, Sig 229, Springfield Armory XD. So dont hesitate to buy that stuff. Now I carry Federal Hydra-Shok 147gr and have had no issues running it through any of the above mentioned guns. Best thing to do is this. Get whatever gun you want. Then but a couple different boxes of HD/SD loads and run them through your gun. Now you are doing your own test on your own gun and you will see what runs effectively in your gun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted February 17, 2012 I would just try several and see what works best in MY gun! You didn't mention which gun/brand you're purchasing, so it's hard to tell you what will work. Something as simple as polishing a feed ramp may make a "problem" go-away. It's always better to test ammo yourself! Around 25 years ago the best & cheapest .45 ammo for my gun was Norinco brand since it never mis-fed and the groups were the tightest from all of the ammo I tried at the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anselmo 87 Posted February 17, 2012 I use whatever is the cheapest brass ammo I can find for the range. I use the hollow point stuff they sell at Walmart. I think they're Hydro shocks. Never shot the HPs yet. Guess I should try a magazine of them to make sure they work. I'm not too worried about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Shooter 35 Posted February 17, 2012 Here's a detailed (long) analysis of hand guns and hand gun ammo for carry/SD. It's from an LEO perspective. Hope it helps... http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blksheep 466 Posted February 17, 2012 Here's a detailed (long) analysis of hand guns and hand gun ammo for carry/SD. It's from an LEO perspective. Hope it helps... http://www.m4carbine...ead.php?t=19887 Great find. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greatgunstatenj 32 Posted February 17, 2012 because 9mm ball - used by every army in the Western world - is a mediocre manstopper. Ha, I love that comment. Mediocre compared to what, a canon? Mediocre means not very good, not very good would mean it doesn't do a good job of stopping people. I don't hear too many stories of people walking away from 3-4 9mm slugs to center mass. Sure, it happens, but by a stroke of luck. Aim is way more important than ammo IMHO. No intent to bash, valid discussion but opinions are like elbows, every one has one, myself as well as Anonymous at Chuckhawk! I just don't think I'd be taking advice from anonymous Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted February 17, 2012 Avoid steel and aluminum cased ammo for at least the first 500 rounds. Dabble after that if you'd like. Some folks have better luck shooting 124gr through the break in period. You want to avoid anemic loads through the break in period. Look at the FPS for any particular round and you'll figure out pretty quickly which rounds are loaded hotter. As for self defense loads. I have Cor-Bon DPX 115gr +p in my SD magazine. It's a proven round that doesn't clog on denim and expands uniformly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LorenzoS 100 Posted February 17, 2012 That article published by Chuck Hawks is ancient and the information is obsolete. Many of the specific loads he recommends are not even manufactured anymore, and the rest are still around for those people who still like bias ply tires on their cars. His recommendation to avoid 147 grain 9mm might have been ok 25 years ago but it is absolutely wrong with respect to modern loads. The Gary Roberts (DocGKR) list on m4carbine.net and also mirrored on ar15.com is the best source of information available. It's updated every few months. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rifleman1 32 Posted February 17, 2012 Here is my SD/HD and Practice Cartridge Lists: SD/HD 9mm: Federal 9BPLE - ammoman.com Pro-Load Tactical Cor-Bon 9mm 115 grain +P Jacketed Hollowpoint 1,350 fps, 466 ft.lbs. #SD09115/20 most powerful and street-proven manstopper; $24.99/20 Federal 115 grain JHP (9BP) 1,160 fps 344 ft.lbs. The best standard pressure 9mm load. FAC9BP Natchez, C9BP Midway CCI Speer Gold Dot 124-grain 9MM +P 18.99/20 1,220 fps 410 ft.lbs. #23617 and reports excellent street results Winchester's Ranger Talon 127-grain +P has also earned an excellent reputation (RA9TA) 115-grain JHP at 1,300 to 1,350 fps, it is available to police from Winchester, Federal and Remington; and to civilians from Pro-Load, Black Hills and others. Pro-Load Tactical (1st choice) or Federal 9BP 115-grain JHP Winchester Silvertip 115 grain (X9MMSHP) Federal 124 grain Hydra-shok (P9HS1). Remington 115 grain +P JHP is a good choice (R9MM6) if jams with Cor-Bon Hornady Critical Defense Ammunition 9mm Luger 115 Grain Flex Tip eXpanding 1,350 fp/s Box of 25; #: 90250 $16.99 MidwayUSA; 19.99/25 Dick's; 16.19/25 Dick's w/$15 coupon Winchester 9mm 147gr JHP PDX1 17.81/20 Dick's Remington Golden Saber 9mm 124gr BJHP +P 47.67/100 Sportsman's Guide (GS9MMD) Winchester 127-grain +P+ Target 9MM in inventory: Magtech FMC 115gr Brown Bear FMJ 115gr Federal American Eagle FMJ115gr Federal Luger FMJ 115gr PMC Pistol & Revolver 115gr Remington UMC FMJ 115gr Speer Lawman FMJ 115gr Tula FMJ 115gr Winchester USA FMJ 115gr MFS FMJ Zinc 115gr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
this_is_nascar 162 Posted February 17, 2012 Thanks everyone. Very informative. I'll check out that article too. I didn't realize what I had posted was so old and out-dated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
this_is_nascar 162 Posted February 17, 2012 Anyone ever use "Federal Champion Target Ammunition 9mm Luger 115 Grain Full Metal Jacket". Several places have it on sale for $10 or less than that per box. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted February 17, 2012 Federal Champion is good range ammo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SW9racer 262 Posted February 18, 2012 Federal Champion is good range ammo. How does this compare to Aguila in 124gr? Its about the same price per case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted February 18, 2012 Dunno never shot Aguila 124gr. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anselmo 87 Posted February 18, 2012 How does this compare to Aguila in 124gr? Its about the same price per case. Never shot Aguila but it is supposed to be good ammo from Mexico. I've been shooting a lot of S&B that I got for $10/50. What pistol do you have? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 264 Posted February 18, 2012 I roll my own range ammo. For SD I use Corbon Pow'rball. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Shooter 35 Posted February 18, 2012 Speaking of 147gr, what's the consensus on 124gr +P vs 147 gr? Gary Roberts lists both as acceptable for SD use. My gut instinct tells me to go with the standard pressure 147 due to less wear on the gun and less recoil vs the hotter 124 +P. Any preference for one over the other for SD? I think this is one of GR's best pieces of advice: Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anselmo 87 Posted February 18, 2012 Speaking of 147gr, what's the consensus on 124gr +P vs 147 gr? Gary Roberts lists both as acceptable for SD use. My gut instinct tells me to go with the standard pressure 147 due to less wear on the gun and less recoil vs the hotter 124 +P. Any preference for one over the other for SD? I think this is one of GR's best pieces of advice: Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance. Why would you need 1000 rounds of this expensive ammo? Is that a typo? 100 rounds seems more than sufficient to me. I have 20 rounds of hollow points. Don't see a need for more than that unless it's to stockpile something I'll never use. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Shooter 35 Posted February 18, 2012 I was referring more to the pick an ammo and stop worrying about it part. He means to buy 1000 SD rounds for testing, not for stockpiling. I think the 1000 round count refers to his belief in shooting 1000 failure-free rounds of that particular ammo through your gun. He is an LEO, so he's looking at it from the perspective of bet-your-life reliability for a duty weapon. For us civies, I've heard 500 rounds being quoted to make sure it will feed reliably (factoring in both how your gun AND magazine handle this ammo). Again, I was just referring to the stop worrying part. 1000 SD rounds is pretty pricey! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anselmo 87 Posted February 18, 2012 I was referring more to the pick an ammo and stop worrying about it part. He's doesn't mean to stockpile that much. I think the 1000 round count refers to his belief in shooting 1000 failure-free rounds of that particular ammo through your gun. He is an LEO, so he's looking at it from the perspective of bet-your-life reliability for a duty weapon. For us civies, I've heard 500 rounds being quoted to make sure it will feed reliably (factoring in both how your gun AND magazine handle this ammo). Again, I was just referring to the stop worrying part. 1000 SD rounds is pretty pricey! Agree aboiut the stop worrying. Personally, when these numbers of 500 to 1000 trouble free rounds get thrown around I can't help but think the ammo companies and laughing about it on their way to the bank. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Shooter 35 Posted February 18, 2012 Personally, when these numbers of 500 to 1000 trouble free rounds get thrown around I can't help but think the ammo companies and laughing about it on their way to the bank. Me too. But you hear these numbers from guys like GR or Anthony from GFH, who aren't selling ammo. I do know this: I'll be sleeping on the deck if my wife sees a bill for 500 rounds of gold dot. Yeah, definitely won't have to worry about having any more kids. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bulpup 98 Posted February 19, 2012 For me I broke in my first handgun with about 200 Speer Gold dots. Then about 2000 Blazer and PNC type. Then I just settled in to rotating new Hd Ammo types every 6 months or so. For example, I thought the EFMJ looked good so I bought 80, shot 50 and if I liked it, kept the remainder in the mag that is in the gun daily. Also, I like to shoot off those mags every year and get new rounds. Fresh ammo in the gun may not mean much, but I feel I need to shoot the +P loads every now and then so I don't expect the pistol to shoot like range ammo in a HD situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 177 Posted February 19, 2012 I use PMC Bronze, Speer Lawman, S&B typically for range ammo, 115gr flavor typically. Currently my choice HD ammo is Cor-bon Pow'RBall. I also hear Hornady Critical Defense is excellent. Both rounds operate on similar principals. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 264 Posted February 19, 2012 Speaking of 147gr, what's the consensus on 124gr +P vs 147 gr? Gary Roberts lists both as acceptable for SD use. My gut instinct tells me to go with the standard pressure 147 due to less wear on the gun and less recoil vs the hotter 124 +P. Any preference for one over the other for SD?\ I would only use 147gr for SD if I needed to suppress the weapon. Otherwise, my vote is for the smaller rounds. For what it's worth my PD carries 124gr +P gold dots on duty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
this_is_nascar 162 Posted February 21, 2012 I'm pissed. Just went to MidwayUSA to order some Federal Champion 115-grain FMJ that the had on sale, but got to the shipping part and it said the don't ship handgun ammo to NJ. They must not consider .22LR handgun ammo, because I've purchased thousands of rounds from them in the past. So, does this mean I'm really limited on my online 9mm purchasing choices or is it just a policy of MidwayUSA? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
this_is_nascar 162 Posted February 21, 2012 Another question. Can anyone recommend any of this ammo. I'll be passing this place when I go to see Paul to pick up my 92A1. If it's any good, I wouldn't mind picking up 500-rounds or so to try. http://www.ammoman.com/c/16/9mm-luger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rifleman1 32 Posted February 21, 2012 I'm pissed. Just went to MidwayUSA to order some Federal Champion 115-grain FMJ that the had on sale, but got to the shipping part and it said the don't ship handgun ammo to NJ. They must not consider .22LR handgun ammo, because I've purchased thousands of rounds from them in the past. So, does this mean I'm really limited on my online 9mm purchasing choices or is it just a policy of MidwayUSA? I have seen others post that Midway USA needs a copy of y0our FPID on file in order to ship to you. Another question. Can anyone recommend any of this ammo. I'll be passing this place when I go to see Paul to pick up my 92A1. If it's any good, I wouldn't mind picking up 500-rounds or so to try. http://www.ammoman.com/c/16/9mm-luger I shoot both Speer Lawman 115gr and Speer Gold Dot in 115 and 124 and paid an average of .21/round. Gold Dot's are hollow points. I have not shot Wolf or Sellier & Bellot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blksheep 466 Posted February 21, 2012 Another question. Can anyone recommend any of this ammo. I'll be passing this place when I go to see Paul to pick up my 92A1. If it's any good, I wouldn't mind picking up 500-rounds or so to try. http://www.ammoman.com/c/16/9mm-luger I have bought from Eric-the owner before. I bought 1000 rounds of the Wolf 9mm and it ran great in all of my nines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blksheep 466 Posted February 21, 2012 I have also shot S&B and Speer and they run great. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
