Please stop buying Serpa holsters

[vladtepes 1,060]

Wow, Anthony, seriously, your experience is a small, small, small, small, small slice of the larger data. Yes, I have a Serpa too, and I rolled around in mud, dirt, and whatnot with it. Yes, it never caused any malfunctions, nor did I ever have any NDs...

 

However, there is irrefutable data that shows that the Serpa can in fact be a liability in terms of the mechanism. That is where the statement derives from, notably from shooting professionals who have far more data/experience to reach their conclusions.

 

 

right and I acknowledge that could happen.. where as should I find myself "deployed to some third world shithole" then yeah I may pass on the serpa.. but for daily carry I make the choice to still trust it.. I do not ignore the potential for failure.. but I do not envision ANY possibility for encountering those conditions that would create possibility for failure at places like the local supermarket..

 

right tool for the right job..

[Caine 147]

but I do not envision ANY possibility for encountering those conditions that would create possibility for failure at places like the local supermarket..

It never snows where you CCW? I only ask, because, aside from the clay, mud, various pebbles, etc etc etc that can render a Serpa inoperable, snow can apparently have the same affect... till the snow melts or becomes dislodged of course.

 

Anyway.. we all make our choices for various reasons. Not really knocking anyone for their choice. Just trying to understand the infatuation people have with these holsters

[vladtepes 1,060]

It never snows where you CCW? I only ask, because, aside from the clay, mud, various pebbles, etc etc etc that can render a Serpa inoperable, snow can apparently have the same affect... till the snow melts or becomes dislodged of course.

 

Anyway.. we all make our choices for various reasons. Not really knocking anyone for their choice. Just trying to understand the infatuation people have these holsters

 

I have had the holster in snow and have had no issue..

the only way snow would be an issue is the same way it is annoying when I snowboard.. and that is snow COULD get under the release.. melt.. and then refreeze.. potentially locking up the mechanism.. but again in the context of CCW.. I might draw from my back.. but the holster would never be suspected to the conditions needed to create failure..

 

in watching the video I BELIEVE there is totally potential for failure under hard use.. why do I use it anyway? because CCW will not subject the holster to those types of conditions...

further.. I prefer the side release over thumb break... Serpa gives me a nice clean fast draw with a super firm grip on the gun.. it puts my finger on the slide..

 

of the holsters I have used (not as many as others but quite a few) this one provides the cleanest most firmest grips.. for me.. that is why I use it.. I trust it..

 

I am certainly not nit picking.. I get it.. there are better options.. but I like the serpa for my use.. I do however plan to try something different in the future to see if I can get it in a little tighter to my body..

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I think if you run anything hard enough or abuse it bad enough anything can fail including AK's, AR's regular thumbreak holsters etc. I have seen hundreds if not thousands of officers that use the Serpa without any reported issues.

 

Thank you.

[2Alpha 6]

I had a Serpa for my M&P. It became quickly evident that when I was doing sub second draws, that my finger was still pushing in, even as the gun was clearing the holster. When the speed went up, dexterity went down and I could no longer safety draw from the serpa. Changed to a Non-serpa and sub second draws are safe again. No reason to fight with your equipment

[blksheep 466]

I had a Serpa for my M&P. It became quickly evident that when I was doing sub second draws, that my finger was still pushing in, even as the gun was clearing the holster. When the speed went up, dexterity went down and I could no longer safety draw from the serpa. Changed to a Non-serpa and sub second draws are safe again. No reason to fight with your equipment

 

Anyone can be fast and unsafe with anything.

[2Alpha 6]

Anyone can be fast and unsafe with anything.

 

People can be slow and unsafe also. Its when you use something at the ragged edge of skill that it becomes dangerous. The Sepra made that edge closer than other holsters. There is no benefit, only negatives with this holster

[vladtepes 1,060]

I had a Serpa for my M&P. It became quickly evident that when I was doing sub second draws, that my finger was still pushing in, even as the gun was clearing the holster. When the speed went up, dexterity went down and I could no longer safety draw from the serpa. Changed to a Non-serpa and sub second draws are safe again. No reason to fight with your equipment

 

that is as I pointed out already probably because you are pushing it with the tip of your finger.. and then dragging.. once your finger clears the holster it slides into the trigger guard..

 

when I draw from my Glock.. I POINT the finger at the ground hit the button with the pad of my finger.. pointing my finger straight the whole time..

when the gun clears the holster I do not magically curl my finger.. I keep it straight and it rides the slide.. my finger has never even almost kind of gotten in the trigger guard.. ever..

[2Alpha 6]

Your finger curls because all my fingers are curling. Its difficult at speed to keep on finger straight while curling hard with the others. Like I said, with a slow draw it is easy to seperate the actions, get under 1 sec its not as easy, so why struggle with it when there are many better holsters that don't have this issue

[checko 180]

Your finger curls because all my fingers are curling. Its difficult at speed to keep on finger straight while curling hard with the others. Like I said, with a slow draw it is easy to seperate the actions, get under 1 sec its not as easy, so why struggle with it when there are many better holsters that don't have this issue

 

my finger never curls. If it doesn't work for you because your fingers curl its not a problem with the equipment.

[2Alpha 6]

my finger never curls. If it doesn't work for you because your fingers curl its not a problem with the equipment.

 

Now try it at speed. I'll tell you what, you post a video of 5 sub 1 sec draws on a 10 yard USPSA/IDPA target and not have any issues

I will buy you your next holster

[Maksim 1,504]

Here is a solution, disable the Serpa mechanism and use it as a holster. Problem solved. =)

 

I shot an extra classifier with the m&p this weekend and used the serpa holster, gave myself a little bit of a wedgie on the draw as on this holster for some reason took a bit more effort.

 

It all boils down to what you are going to use it for. Right now, it is the equivalent of off roaders and soccer moms discussing the Jeep Liberty as a vehicle.

 

The Serpa in my eyes is a great holster for certain applications, but not the best for other applications. In gun games, it requires you as Mike mentioned, to operate at the edge, and if you can't handle it, has bad consequences.

 

For others, like Ant is talking about, it is a great holster for how he uses it, as an OC or CCW application in his environment, where it will not likely be subject to being in a sandstorm or what not.

 

Lets leave it at that.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Here is a solution, disable the Serpa mechanism and use it as a holster. Problem solved. =)

 

I shot an extra classifier with the m&p this weekend and used the serpa holster, gave myself a little bit of a wedgie on the draw as on this holster for some reason took a bit more effort.

 

It all boils down to what you are going to use it for. Right now, it is the equivalent of off roaders and soccer moms discussing the Jeep Liberty as a vehicle.

 

The Serpa in my eyes is a great holster for certain applications, but not the best for other applications. In gun games, it requires you as Mike mentioned, to operate at the edge, and if you can't handle it, has bad consequences.

 

For others, like Ant is talking about, it is a great holster for how he uses it, as an OC or CCW application in his environment, where it will not likely be subject to being in a sandstorm or what not.

 

Lets leave it at that.

 

+1

you win the prize....

[Vlad G 345]

Nope still wrong, if a holster is unsuitable then it isn't kinda suitable for something else, not with the sort of issues it has. You can feel free to keep using them, but it is still a bad idea. Its not like there aren't other locking holsters for the same kind of money that don't have any of the problems the Serpa does.

 

Of course, multiple training houses, big name trainers, a ton of videos of how they fail, all of those are meaningless because you haven't seen it yourself yet. Thats like saying you'd keep driving a Corvair because you haven't crashed it yet. Ok, you keep doing that if you think that makes sense.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Your finger curls because all my fingers are curling. Its difficult at speed to keep on finger straight while curling hard with the others. Like I said, with a slow draw it is easy to seperate the actions, get under 1 sec its not as easy, so why struggle with it when there are many better holsters that don't have this issue

 

for what it is worth..

 

your trigger finger should not end up on the trigger as you draw.. if you are curling ALL of your fingers.. and your excuse is "speed" then there is nothing to prevent it with any holster because as you pointed out you lack the ability to separate your finger movements.. I am not sure what holster you are drawing from that would force finger positioning.. also maybe it is different with different weapons.. but with a serpa and a glock.. you have to TRY to get your finger in the trigger guard on draw.. because when you release the mechanism and ride the holster.. your GRIP is on the grip of the gun.. your finger is hitting the release.. and my natural range of motion puts my trigger finger on the slide.. putting it anywhere else would be unnatural.. as far as speed goes.. again for me it outperforms my other options.. I use it in an open carry type situation.. or lightly concealed.. I would not carry a gun openly without a retention system.. because of the nature of the serpa it puts my hand in the ready in one motion.. with a typical thumb break retention for me.. it is less smooth and thus slower..

 

but as maks pointed out.. what is right for me may be entirely wrong for you..

[vladtepes 1,060]

Nope still wrong, if a holster is unsuitable then it isn't kinda suitable for something else, not with the sort of issues it has. You can feel free to keep using them, but it is still a bad idea. Its not like there aren't other locking holsters for the same kind of money that don't have any of the problems the Serpa does.

 

Of course, multiple training houses, big name trainers, a ton of videos of how they fail, all of those are meaningless because you haven't seen it yourself yet. Thats like saying you'd keep driving a Corvair because you haven't crashed it yet. Ok, you keep doing that if you think that makes sense.

 

no.. it is like saying "when I open carry a gun in PA.. I am not rolling around in the mud.. thus not exposing the holster to the conditions that create failure"

 

you know.. tires are slippery in the snow.. because of that do you ride around with chains on your tires all year? or do you assume that once the summer comes.. the likelihood of encountering the environmental factors that would create an unsafe situation are gone?

 

if my ride to the grocery store consisted of climbing through brush.. over rocks.. and through the mud.. then yeah.. it might be relevant..

 

I will agree without question that the holster can get dirt and can fail to release when needed..

this is an environmental factor.. NOT an issue with the equipment..

the system is not viable in certain environments..

I have not experienced this but I agree it is possible..

 

the negligent discharge (finger on the trigger)

is operator error.. ESPECIALLY on a Glock.. my trigger finger time and time and time again ends up right on or beneath the slide..

[2Alpha 6]

If you disable the lock, the holster has zero retention

 

@ Vladtepes. On a normal holster, my finger is up around the ejection port. I don't have to put my finger anywhere near the trigger.

 

The holster is a walking around holster.. has no place when your are doing advanced gun work

[blksheep 466]

What is considered advanced gun work?

[vladtepes 1,060]

If you disable the lock, the holster has zero retention

 

@ Vladtepes. On a normal holster, my finger is up around the ejection port. I don't have to put my finger anywhere near the trigger.

 

The holster is a walking around holster.. has no place when your are doing advanced gun work

 

not sure what "advanced gun work" is.. it is probably beyond my ability as it sounds really challenging..

I use it to carry a gun around.. discretely as I have it setup to sit pretty flush.. It is just a very comfortable simple holster for carrying a gun around town.. I would not carry a gun or a holster that I did not trust..

 

it blows my mind that there is that much pig pigheadedness with this..

 

the holster is not suitable for certain environmental conditions..

the holster is not right for some people who have issues with fingering the trigger..

the holster is fine for a typical urban environment where you do not intend to roll around in the dirt..

the holster is fine for some users (like myself) who have no issues with fingering the trigger..

 

do you have to wear the same shoes as me? use the same toothbrush? carry the same pocketknife?

 

you do at least have the simplest understanding to grasp that not all situations are equal?

I am not patrolling a compound in the middle east.. I am not trudging through some swamplands..

 

I LITERALLY carry a gun every day.. and take the gun in and out of a holster every day.. a loaded gun.. and more often than not it is a serpa..

granted I am not some fancy tactical instructor.. or some high level competitor..

 

I am simply relaying my personal day to day experience...

[vladtepes 1,060]

What is considered advanced gun work?

 

rolling around in the dirt like you are in the middle east..

[blksheep 466]

I guess. LOL! Use it, dont use it. I dont care. I like it thats why I use it. I can dump rocks in my piston driven AR or AK and make that break too if I really tried.

[vladtepes 1,060]

full mag and one in the chamber just to keep it real..

 

take notice..

the holster rides nice and close to me while being on the belt (which is why I like it...)

the retention is simple and smooth to operate..

the grip I have while drawing the weapon is exactly where I want it to be as I come up..

 

there was no intention to draw the gun in any special way.. I was intentionally trying to have a very informal grip on the weapon to illustrate how natural it is.. and if you notice.. my finger is actually longer than the trigger guard.. so my muscle memory of a hard pointed rigid finger makes getting into the trigger guard IMPOSSIBLE.. literally.. it can NOT happen..

 

[2Alpha 6]

And basically that is all the holster is good for, slowly pulling the gun out. But why get a holster that will have problems under stress, under bad conditions etc when you can have another holster for the same cost that will hold the gun as nicely when you are walking around or slowly drawing the gun but has no issues when you are under stress or in bad conditions

[vladtepes 1,060]

And basically that is all the holster is good for, slowly pulling the gun out. But why get a holster that will have problems under stress, under bad conditions etc when you can have another holster for the same cost that will hold the gun as nicely when you are walking around or slowly drawing the gun but has no issues when you are under stress or in bad conditions

 

what the hell are you talking about.. I can draw from that holster a million times faster than my IWB holster with NO retention..

 

now you are just spewing nonsense..

I am not going to have an "ebattle" "quick draw contest" with you..

do you understand what muscle memory is.. I ONLY draw the gun with my finger pointed.. it is burned into my head..

 

grab gun while pointing.. I get a firm grasp and hit the release at the same time..

 

further.. in a life and death situation how fast is your draw going to be...

if some thug sticks a loaded gun in your face.. inches from your brain.. are you going to out draw him and save the day..

I think if I ever had to actually deploy my weapon to save my life.. I would likely already be in a struggle.. because I want to avoid all that to begin with..

speed is important... back speed comes from smoothness.. and the setup is very natural and smooth to me..

if the gun is worn in this setup is is under a jacket or an open button up.. so access is as fast as it is going to be without giving up retention..

[Vlad G 345]

you know.. tires are slippery in the snow.. because of that do you ride around with chains on your tires all year? or do you assume that once the summer comes.. the likelihood of encountering the environmental factors that would create an unsafe situation are gone?

 

Using your analogy, given the same price for tires that work well in the snow and those that don't, which are in every other way equal, why would use the tires that suck in snow?

 

Seriously, I know how the damn thing works, I own one, I don't think a slow draw video is going to change my mind. Try doing that under stress and as quickly as possible. No, you can't really do that in your leaving room, you are going to need to have someone honestly try to take it from you, etc. Unless you are carrying that gun cause it looks cool, that is the scenario it is there to defend you from, no? So why use something that is substandard? Failing that, competitive use or class use will be as close as you will come to some form of stress, and I'm not one for tactical classes but I'm going to trust those who teach them when they say the damn thing is dangerous and I can tell you in competitive use it is a terrible idea.

 

If you think it looks cool, and that is all you want it to do, well keep doing that and hope you are never going it to need it to do more. If you change your mind an ALS is like $40.

[compujas 21]

Can you perform sub-1sec draws with a Level 3 retention holster? Doubtful. Can you grapple with a bad guy with a Ghost Holster and expect to not have any problems? Again, probably not. The reason for many different options of the same item on the market is because no one thing is suitable for every situation. If there was, then nothing else would sell because no one would buy anything but the ONE. If the Serpa holster were really truly terrible, no one would buy it and it would disappear into obsolescence, but because it is suitable for certain situations, it will continue to sell and be used for those situations. I have one that I use with a Glock for carrying around my house. If I were able to CCW would I use it? Probably not, but would I chastise others for using it? Of course not. It's personal preference. If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to buy it.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Using your analogy, given the same price for tires that work well in the snow and those that don't, which are in every other way equal, why would use the tires that suck in snow?

 

Seriously, I know how the damn thing works, I own one, I don't think a slow draw video is going to change my mind. Try doing that under stress and as quickly as possible. No, you can't really do that in your leaving room, you are going to need to have someone honestly try to take it from you, etc. Unless you are carrying that gun cause it looks cool, that is the scenario it is there to defend you from, no? So why use something that is substandard? Failing that, competitive use or class use will be as close as you will come to some form of stress, and I'm not one for tactical classes but I'm going to trust those who teach them when they say the damn thing is dangerous and I can tell you in competitive use it is a terrible idea.

 

If you think it looks cool, and that is all you want it to do, well keep doing that and hope you are never going it to need it to do more. If you change your mind an ALS is like $40.

 

I have spent close to ten years training with master gunnery Sargent Cardo Urso (an individual that is credited with being an integral part to the creation of the marine corp martial arts program..

we have spent a substantial amount of time with weapon retention.. disarming.. being attacked.. improvised weapons.. low light.. and all that.. (granted that was hand to hand weapons, and not firearms)

 

I have also had a ton of range time using the gun and the holster system with various LEO shooting from unique angles under different conditions... partially loaded magazines to increase potential variables.... . shooting while on my side.. deploying the weapon while on my back.. shooting while on my back.. (all the while at a pretty dirty range).. while also spending a bunch of time at a more conventional county run range.. shooting steel against others where speed was paramount..

 

but I concede.. after all I have never been trained by some ultra elite operator.. and I certainly do not hold any gun game trophies.. so my experience and practical use is surely useless.. and I am obviously just carrying my gun because it looks cool.. that is why I carry it covered by a jacket or shirt.. because it looks cool.. right.. you hit it on the head.. I could never even begin to touch the level of "eliteness" you are likely "operating" on... I am sure your shooting resume and practical use is mind numbing list of achievements and credentials.. ..

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

The Corvair was a fine automobile - blaming the car for peoples inability to drive them is like blaming a holster....oh wait. Nevermind.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[checko 180]

This is getting ridiculous. I think people on here are adult enough to make their own decisions on their holsters. There are plenty of people who have had positive experience to justifiy its sales. If you don't like it dont buy it. Don't make it into a pissing contest on how quick your draw is.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Not only that, but I have a feeling that both sides are talking about much different uses..