zoid 24 Posted March 13, 2012 This is just a personal question on why HK/Sig owners felt it was worth spending extra money your Sigs or HKs or other "Premium" brands over lower cost brands like Glock and S&W M&Ps. Me personally I do not think Sigs/HKs are better than their counterparts in regard to reliability/functionality/accuracy. But I was still willing to pay more simply because I like them so much in regard to their design and because I have found I really do enjoy shooting them. The "feel" of them is more refined to me and the shooting experience was different (I won't say better) enough for me to be willing to spend a little more. What was your reason for justifying the bigger price tag? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bry@n 195 Posted March 13, 2012 IMO, if you feel the "Germam Goodness" of a West German p228, you will have your answer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
autoxnyc 4 Posted March 13, 2012 For Sigs, I think the older models are worthy of the premium. Even with the newer guns, you do get an all metal gun. The Polymer Sigs esp the 2022 are priced very compeititvely so there's really no premium there. As for HK, you can really see the quality and engineering going into the gun. Just look at the recoil spring assembly, and they really go out of their way to test their stuff to make sure they can take the abuse. So yes there's a reason for me to pay the premium although I do think partially you are paying for the name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YWHIC 18 Posted March 13, 2012 I've owned 2 Sig 228's over the years and they just FEEL solid.. I sold them both a few years back I own the Sig Pro SP2022 in 9mm currently.. (I got that over the .40 cal version as that had issues as noted on several forums.) I paid $379 and $30 for the extra mag.. Then the same week some guy on the Sig forums or GB (I forget) had two 10 round mags for like $30 shipped for both (both new).. I couldn't say no to that deal.. About 450+ rounds with 0 issues.. I like the ability to decock the hammer without to much worry.. I practice in DA/SA mode for the 1st shot.. then obviously SA mode for the rest of the mag.. then do it again.. Its my carry item in PA and when I do security in PA also. its GTG for me into a 6" target at 7 yards.. smooth trigger than the trigger just clicks/falls/breaks.. The newer semi-auto's of which are DA only-ish I don't think I'd like.. ETA** I also got the 2022 vs. 250 model because the 250 model is BLOCKY from the muzzle end view. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MandM 2 Posted March 13, 2012 I have an HK45c and I'm in love. It feels perfect in my hand. It has shot anything I've fed it so far. There's quality in the manufacturing. Nice tight tolerances just about everywhere. I think the extra money is spent in the HK engineering it shows and I think it DOES make them more dependable than the average comparable pistol. I trust this gun hands down. End of the world gun... this... or more likely it's big brother... but definitely HK. Very rarely have I heard anything bad about H&K and the few times I heard about failures or issues, HK customer service made it right, no questions asked. I'll pay a premium for that alone. My buddy has a Sig P220. What a great gun. Nice and solid. Good performance. High quality. He hasn't had a problem (7 + years and thousands of rounds and he doesn't baby it one bit.) Doesn't fit my hand... but it's not my gun. He loves it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lunker 274 Posted March 13, 2012 I have owned HKs and Sigs. I probably would've kept the West German Sig P220 if I were a righty. Sig's controls just don't work for me as a lefty. As for HK, I never liked the trigger enough to justify the price (except the P7 of course). I had equal numbers of falures in my other palstic guns. I just couldn't see the reason for such a pricey polymer gun, with expensive accessories to boot. I just bought a FNP-45 USG, a gun submitted to the military in the trials to replace the M9. I am eager to see how I like it compared to HK, M&P, Glock, etc. I am currently waiting for my month (OGAM) to finish so I can try it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NicePants 58 Posted March 13, 2012 HK: "Because you suck, and we hate you." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robot_hell 72 Posted March 13, 2012 HKs can shoot bullets loaded in any direction. Oh it goes on and on. These memes will never die. Come the year 3011 there will still be people talking about this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MandM 2 Posted March 13, 2012 HKs can shoot bullets loaded in any direction. Superior. Teutonic. Engineering. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronald Silver 2 Posted March 13, 2012 I like Sigs w/o rails. And SS is nice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoid 24 Posted March 13, 2012 IMO, if you feel the "Germam Goodness" of a West German p228, you will have your answer Yes my 228 definitely has the most refined trigger I've felt outside of my 1911. Good point about the Sig polymers being on par if not cheaper than other Polymer guns. Didn't look at it that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted March 13, 2012 Hk's, absolutely worth it. Sigs... most of the time. I have owned the Hk 45 and P30L. While there is nothing amazing, blow your socks off, kinda things about them, they do everything extremely well. Recoil is almost non existent in both, ergonomics are top notch, especially on the P30 with the 3 interchangeable panels, more reliable than any other handgun that I have owned, and extremely tough to get dirty. The P30 did not show any signs. Sigs... depends on the model, but in most cases, yes... In the $700 to $800 range, yes... anything above that, tougher to justify. As much as Hi Point is far above any other Sat Night Special, HK and Sig, are in my eyes above the others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcpg 4 Posted March 13, 2012 Not impressed with H&K at all. Shot a p30l over the weekend and thought the trigger was a bit rough. Ever since I bought my sig I've been fighting the urge to buy a Glock 17 3rd gen. My Sig premium is aesthetic mostly, but it's also a good blend of function. Nothing feels like a sig, but nothing is as intuitive to shoot as a Glock. I'm much more accurate with a sig at longer distances from the smooth SA pull. Sigs are like DSLR cameras and shines with a good shooter, but every mistake is emphasized. Glocks are the point and shoot cameras of the gun world and are very forgiving. That being said I'm glad I went with the Sig first. It trained me to never underestimate good technique. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blksheep 466 Posted March 13, 2012 I have had an HK USP Compact and a Sig 229R and they are both well made guns. I liked the HK Compact but sold it mainly because it was the tan frame. Should have kept that one. The Sig229 was nice but the trigger was DAK and IMO was not as nice as HK's LEM trigger and the reset wasnt as nice as my Glocks plus felt heavy carrying it all day. They are beautiful guns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubberBullets 65 Posted March 13, 2012 Well I found $700 in my couch last month and I figured why not blow it on a sig In all reality i test fired a number of handguns and the sig 226 felt best in my hand and my shooting style. Wasnt impressed by the polymer's feel, although no doubt they are tested and tried firearms. It doesnt mean I am a sig or HK guy explicitly, jut prefered my first firearm to FEEL like a well built, reputable sturdy gun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lunker 274 Posted March 13, 2012 Sigs... depends on the model, but in most cases, yes... In the $700 to $800 range, yes... anything above that, tougher to justify. Not even in diamond plating? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve_G 51 Posted March 13, 2012 Or the Viking Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubberBullets 65 Posted March 13, 2012 Not Even HelloKitty?!?!!? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted March 13, 2012 Not impressed with H&K at all. Shot a p30l over the weekend and thought the trigger was a bit rough. Ever since I bought my sig I've been fighting the urge to buy a Glock 17 3rd gen. My Sig premium is aesthetic mostly, but it's also a good blend of function. Nothing feels like a sig, but nothing is as intuitive to shoot as a Glock. I'm much more accurate with a sig at longer distances from the smooth SA pull. Sigs are like DSLR cameras and shines with a good shooter, but every mistake is emphasized. Glocks are the point and shoot cameras of the gun world and are very forgiving. That being said I'm glad I went with the Sig first. It trained me to never underestimate good technique. What? Please edumacate me on why the glock is the point and shoot camera and on Sigs it is otherwise? Personally, I think it is all in your head. Unless you are shooting the Sig in DAO, there should be no reason you cannot shoot it as intuitively as a glock/m&p whatever else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rauchman 3 Posted March 13, 2012 Hk's, absolutely worth it. Sigs... most of the time. I have owned the Hk 45 and P30L. While there is nothing amazing, blow your socks off, kinda things about them, they do everything extremely well. Recoil is almost non existent in both, ergonomics are top notch, especially on the P30 with the 3 interchangeable panels, more reliable than any other handgun that I have owned, and extremely tough to get dirty. The P30 did not show any signs. Sigs... depends on the model, but in most cases, yes... In the $700 to $800 range, yes... anything above that, tougher to justify. As much as Hi Point is far above any other Sat Night Special, HK and Sig, are in my eyes above the others. Well put!!! I have a 2001 HK USP45F and a '96 P226, the last year of the stamped sheet metal slides and made in Germany. They are quality machines. Especially on the HK, you can see the quality of the machining. Both pistols are very accurate and reliable, w/ the HK being a smidge higher on the durability level. A coworker of mine got a Sig 2022 as her 1st pistol. She has about 1000 rounds on it now and I have to say, it's a great pistol.... especially in the internet price class of under $400...best bang for the buck out there. Someday, I have to get a USP9 Compact. I've shot one and was WOWED by it. I have to comment though that while my wife loves the P226, both the USP and the P226 hardly ever get shot anymore. The ONE thing neither pistol has, is a consistent pull trigger from 1st shot to last ( you could argue that w/ the cocked and locked capability of the USP, you could always be in SA mode, and HK also has the LEM trigger which is close to a striker fired gun, but still.....different). I've fired the HK45 and P30 and while yes, they are built to an extremely tough standard, they don't do anything for me that the USP's don't already do, which are also engineered for very high durability and toughness. I remember firing an HK45 at the range the same day I had my USP there, and aside from grip feel which had a slight edge in ergonomics, the recoil signature was exactly the same. I've moved on to mostly Glocks and other striker fired pistols. I love that they are the same trigger pull from 1st shot to last, and while the Glocks aren't in the same durability/accuracy class as the HK, they are pretty damn close. They have other advantages as well. Don't get me wrong, I think HK's are the pinnacle of current tactical type semi-autos, as they do make a hell of a pistol, but for my needs, I like the striker fired pistols better. Regarding Sigs, I have no experience on current metal Sigs, but my P226 and all the other P series Sigs that I've shot ( my buddy has 7) have all been stellar performers. Granted all the Sigs I'm referring to were all pre '97, which are known to be excellent performers. If you want the absolute best quality handgun out there in a tactical/service platform, HK is the way to go. Everything about them is pricey, but you are getting what you pay for. If you are looking for a quality gun that has "best" features in other areas, consider other pistols as well. A really good compromise right now is the Walther PPQ. I haven't read a bad thing about it, it's HK accurate w/ a great Glock like trigger. I have one, but have very limited time on it. I foresee my wife commandeering that one from me. While Glock's Gen4 9mm's have had some problems, the .40's and .45's are great. Conversely, the Gen3 and previous Glock 9mm's are excellent while the .40's and .45's were known to have a quirk or two. The Gen4 Glocks bring the accuracy up to HK'ish capability. S&W's M&P's are really popular, w/ the known quirk of their triggers (which have easy fixes) and 9mm's sometimes have less than great accuracy. Current made Sig metal pistols have many reports of less than stellar QC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted March 13, 2012 I was talking about that with a buddy of mine today actually. I have a sig that is at sig right now being fixed and he has an hk that is a pain in th a$$ about shooting federal rounds. That just sits in a box now at his house. Yet he carries 2 glocks everyday and they never have a problem and shoot everything. I am considering buying a glock now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diamondd817 823 Posted March 14, 2012 This is going to be a long thread. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted March 14, 2012 I was talking about that with a buddy of mine today actually. I have a sig that is at sig right now being fixed and he has an hk that is a pain in th a$$ about shooting federal rounds. That just sits in a box now at his house. Yet he carries 2 glocks everyday and they never have a problem and shoot everything. I am considering buying a glock now. What kind of problems? What gun? I will gladly buy the gun from him at the right price? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diamondd817 823 Posted March 14, 2012 This is just a personal question on why HK/Sig owners felt it was worth spending extra money your Sigs or HKs or other "Premium" brands over lower cost brands like Glock and S&W M&Ps. They are not premium brands, they are just premium prices. The "premium" brands can not do anything better mechanically than the cheap Glocks, M&P's, etc. After mechanics its just personal preference -- ergos, asthetics, metal, poly, etc. Flame away guys! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted March 14, 2012 He won't sell it. He isn't the selling guns type but when you are shooting the federal its fine but if you have to chamber a round but don't want to shoot it the extractor doesn't pull the shell out and it jams easily. It works with Winchester ammo fine. Being a cop he carried the hk but due to this issue he doesn't carry it. He only brings it to the range when he feels like shooting a .45. He just carries 2 glocks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubberBullets 65 Posted March 14, 2012 They are not premium brands, they are just premium prices. The "premium" brands can not do anything better mechanically than the cheap Glocks, M&P's, etc. After mechanics its just personal preference -- ergos, asthetics, metal, poly, etc. Flame away guys! Now see diamond... I would pay the extra dough for the way a sig feels in my hand vs the light poly feel. I know it is all about ones own perspective so glock owners may feel differently This argument is like little import tuner cars vs muscle cars.. they are all fast.. they all get form point a to b... its a matter of preference of build materials and design. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted March 14, 2012 I think it's the hk45 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted March 14, 2012 They just cost too much. A Beretta 92 (or Px4) is a better DA/SA gun than both the HK and Sig. Plus they are lefty friendly. A Glock has the polymer handgun that all are compared to. And none can beat them. Both a Beretta and a Glock are cheaper than Sigs and HKs so it's a win win. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diamondd817 823 Posted March 14, 2012 They just cost too much. A Beretta 92 (or Px4) is a better DA/SA gun than both the HK and Sig. Plus they are lefty friendly. A Glock has the polymer handgun that all are compared to. And none can beat them. Both a Beretta and a Glock are cheaper than Sigs and HKs so it's a win win. At least im not the only one on this board that thinks like this. Must be a hudson county thing (Kearny born and raised). 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted March 14, 2012 Cost too much? What about gunsmith built guns, or purpose built game guns... like $1200 CZ Customs CZ 75's, $3000 Brazos's, $4,000 SVI's, $4500 Predator Tactical guns. They have no issues selling them all. There are people who put emphasis on price, others on value, others on the status/perceived status of owning one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites