1st ak variant

[Allmann 0]

I'm looking to buy my first ak variant. I would like to keep it cheaper, not saying cheap. I don't want to spend over $600. I would consider a single stack mag version, but would rather a double stack. Also how much do they normally charge for a conversion to a double stack configuration. thanks for any help in advance.

[Allmann 0]

Would also like to add that would like the wood accessories

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

For $599 you can get a Waffen Werks AK-74 from centerfire systems, which is a very nicely built rifle on a NDS (NoDak Spud) receiver. For a few bucks less the polish milled is available (but I think back-ordered) and is another build of superior quality. Both accept double stack magazines and are in full military wood furniture, no thumbhole/hunting stock crap. Or find yourself a used SAR-1 or SAR-2 on the secondary market (havent been available in awhile).

 

Under those, I would chose a WASR-10 but for the few bucks saved its not worth it, may as well get the super nice ones for the few bucks. My last choice would be a Saiga much to Vladtepes disagreement, due to the amount of work and $$$ involved with no real advantage

[junkmanted 54]

where are you located ? Maybe we can point you to a dealer that can help you out.

 

Or keep an eye on the classifieds here ,, they do pop up now and then.

[vladtepes 1,060]

My last choice would be a Saiga much to Vladtepes disagreement, due to the amount of work and $$$ involved with no real advantage

 

 

he is right.. Saiga (Russian AK) is not for novice.. only more experienced AK user should own this gun..

for first AK it is better to go with one of the knock offs.. like the Polish or WASR..

 

if later you decide you want actuall Russian AK or want to do a nice custom project.. and can afford one..

Saiga is your choice..

 

let us know how you make out..

[Allmann 0]

im located in lacey, open for suggestions and even for a deabate why one is better than another. there is a lot of info out there and a lot of it seems to be more opion than fact.

[vladtepes 1,060]

im located in lacey, open for suggestions and even for a deabate why one is better than another. there is a lot of info out there and a lot of it seems to be more opion than fact.

you have to understand that while it is opinion.. that opinion is (in most cases) rooted in fact.. Glenn knows a ton about AKs.. and I know a ton about Saigas.. when I recommend Saigas it is because of my extensive personal experience with them.. and their ultra high level of reliability and resistance to abuse.. I love Saigas.. I have found everything I could ever want in a Saiga..

 

a Saiga is good if you want to build a gun around EXACTLY what you want..

 

not a good gun if you want something just off the shelf and go..

[Allmann 0]

how much work and money needs to go into a saiga build? I'm just looking for something that wont fail me on the range, but could improve on in the future as i see fit

[vladtepes 1,060]

a complete Saiga build like this one I did for my fiance.. would probably be about 600 for parts and the gun.. but if you leave the front part factory it would be substantially less..

 

as far as the amount of work.. it takes me a whole hour and a half.. LOL start to finish.. including tear down.. paint.. and reassembly..

 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Or you can just go for a few extra bucks and go with an arsenal....of which is a Saiga that is already converted for you.

 

You read my mind.

[petros600 12]

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_64/141256_The_AK_Buyer_s_Guide___A_Beginner_s_Guide_to_the_AK_Platform__ask_all_new_AK_questions_in_here_.html

[Ray Ray 3,566]

http://www.ar15.com/...s_in_here_.html

 

Can someone tell me what is over the front of the piston on the AKs in the second set of pics from a different poster?

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

Those are yugo rifles with grenade launching sights folded down

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Those are yugo rifles with grenade launching sights folded down

 

Do you have any pics of them unfolded? Just curious

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Thanks Glenn, now I understand.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

Yep. Some more related trivia, the yugos have 1.5mm (RPK thickness) receivers to withstand frequent grenade firings.

[intercooler 41]

the chinese ak's also have the 1.6 mm thick receivers...and the same heavier barrels, except they are chrome lined on the chinese.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

a Saiga is good if you want to build a gun around EXACTLY what you want..

 

What makes a saiga easier or better to build EXACTLY what you want versus anything else? Its still more work.

 

If I want an ultimak gas tube on a...

 

WASR-10, you remove the existing gas tube and put on the ultimak

Saiga, you remove the saiga front end, get a hokey bolt on retainer, buy a new lower handguard, put on ultimak

 

If I want a synthetic stock on my rifle:

 

WASR-10, you remove the stock, put new one on

Saiga, you remove the stock, have to relocate trigger group & trigger guard, buy all associated parts, then put new stock on after buying a pistol grip as well

 

If I want a railed lower handguard

 

WASR-10, you remove the existing one and put on new one

Saiga, you have to buy an upper handguard, a hokey lower retainer, then put it on your railed lower handguard.

[vladtepes 1,060]

What makes a saiga easier or better to build EXACTLY what you want versus anything else? Its still more work.

 

If I want an ultimak gas tube on a...

 

WASR-10, you remove the existing gas tube and put on the ultimak

Saiga, you remove the saiga front end, get a hokey bolt on retainer, buy a new lower handguard, put on ultimak

 

If I want a synthetic stock on my rifle:

 

WASR-10, you remove the stock, put new one on

Saiga, you remove the stock, have to relocate trigger group & trigger guard, buy all associated parts, then put new stock on after buying a pistol grip as well

 

If I want a railed lower handguard

 

WASR-10, you remove the existing one and put on new one

Saiga, you have to buy an upper handguard, a hokey lower retainer, then put it on your railed lower handguard.

 

because with a Saiga I am paying $350 for a gun that I am going to rip apart and replace parts as opposed to $600 for a gun that I am going to rip apart and replace parts...

while math may seem overwhelming paying $350 and getting parts you don't want is better than $600 and getting parts you don't want..

 

* having a bolt on lower retainer is a personal choice and by no means the only choice.. in fact if you really want a press on one get it... I chose the bolt on one because of the dozen I have had hands on I have not had a single issue, and the install is mindless....

 

* you do not NEED to swap handguards to use the ultimak gas tube.. the factory handguard can be modified or you can match it with some Saiga specific hand guards...

 

* there are Saiga specific railed lower handguards that require no modifications..

 

but your opinion certainly trumps my personal hands on experience..

 

 

I can't win with you..

you don't like real Russian AKs.. I get it.. you prefer the knock offs that other countries make.. that is OK..

 

if I say a Saiga is a good choice for someone getting started in AKs to get familiar with the gun..

you say no

if I say a Saiga is good for someone familiar with AKs to build a custom gun..

you say no

 

lol

 

the truth is you have your opinion and are blinded by it.. when I recommend Saigas I openly admit my experience with other AKs is limited and there ARE other options out there, but when you go off on a tangent you act as if you have had all this horrible experience with Saigas but yet I am pretty sure you have no real personal negative experiences.. maybe troll someone else's posts?

 

I recommend what I have had a positive trouble free experience with...

MANY individuals on this site have gone on to buy Saigas.. and I have helped them with info..

 

NONE are disappointed.. not a single one..

the one you linked that had a "problem" was a converted one where there is likely an issue with the workmanship since the spring is not even on the gun correctly..

operator error....

 

so really.. what is the underlying problem?

 

great quality...chrome lined barrel..Russian made alongside military issue AK...

COUNTLESS positive experiences.. next to no negative experiences..

 

really.. what IS the issue.. because I DO understand recommending the consideration of OTHER platforms.. but I do NOT understand your insane hatred of an AK platform gun made by the country that started it all.. ?

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Damn, I guess I should've bought a Saiga instead of an Arsenal.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

because with a Saiga I am paying $350 for a gun that I am going to rip apart and replace parts as opposed to $600 for a gun that I am going to rip apart and replace parts...

while math may seem overwhelming paying $350 and getting parts you don't want is better than $600 and getting parts you don't want.. I guess facts are overwhelming for you? Because a Saiga now is generally always going to be above $350 OTD and a WASR is going to always be less than $600 OTD, the numbers are much closer. They really are only about $125 apart. For $125 you get trigger group, "pistol grip conversion", threaded muzzle/nut/brake, the press on HG retainer, gas tube and its already on and ready to go and it even has a warrenty! What are you replacing on the WASR-10? You arent doing another pistol grip conversion, so you are only taking off the gas tube and some furniture at most, which has very little value. Its not like you are spending $1000 on a milled rifle and then replacing the milled reciever, the essence of the rifle.

 

* having a bolt on lower retainer is a personal choice and by no means the only choice.. in fact if you really want a press on one get it... I chose the bolt on one because of the dozen I have had hands on I have not had a single issue, and the install is mindless... Go for it

 

* you do not NEED to swap handguards to use the ultimak gas tube.. the factory handguard can be modified or you can match it with some Saiga specific hand guards... there are Saiga specific railed lower handguards that require no modifications.. OK so I thought the great thing about the saiga was less stuff to do and savings due to "building it your way"? Wasr your just pop it on. Saiga you have to buy saiga specific stuff, mod the factory piece, or convert to an AK front end. All of which required more money than a WASR would.

 

but your opinion certainly trumps my personal hands on experience.. My facts, yes

 

 

I can't win with you.. nope If you think I'm the only one being stubborn here, then....

you don't like real Russian AKs.. I get it.. you prefer the knock offs that other countries make.. that is OK.. I like REAL russian AKs. Too bad we cant get them. They are all knockoffs as far as I'm concerned. The other countries have more experience making AKs than russia does at this point anyways!

 

if I say a Saiga is a good choice for someone getting started in AKs to get familiar with the gun..

you say no

if I say a Saiga is good for someone familiar with AKs to build a custom gun..

you say no that is correct

 

lol

 

the truth is you have your opinion and are blinded by it.. when I recommend Saigas I openly admit my experience with other AKs is limited and there ARE other options out there, but when you go off on a tangent you act as if you have had all this horrible experience with Saigas but yet I am pretty sure you have no real personal negative experiences.. maybe troll someone else's posts?

 

I recommend what I have had a positive trouble free experience with...

MANY individuals on this site have gone on to buy Saigas.. and I have helped them with info..

 

NONE are disappointed.. not a single one..

the one you linked that had a "problem" was a converted one where there is likely an issue with the workmanship since the spring is not even on the gun correctly..

operator error.... Which would have been avoided if they didnt need conversion to be a respectable platform!

 

so really.. what is the underlying problem? Been over this...

 

great quality...chrome lined barrel..Russian made alongside military issue AK...

COUNTLESS positive experiences.. next to no negative experiences..

 

really.. what IS the issue.. because I DO understand recommending the consideration of OTHER platforms.. but I do NOT understand your insane hatred of an AK platform gun made by the country that started it all.. ?

[vladtepes 1,060]

what would I replace on a wasr?

 

g2 FCG...

all of the furniture..

gas tube...

 

what would I not replace on a wasr?

the lower handguard retainer?

yeah I guess that is worth $100?

 

you don't get it.. I dont want some out of the box AK with wood furniture..

not what I am interested in.. just like I do not want some off the shelf AR.. I want the gun to be EXACTLY how I want it..

 

for me having 5 guns EXACTLY how I want them.. is worth more than 15 off the shelf guns..

 

if the Saiga is $50 cheaper I am still ahead.. because I left next to NOTHING from the factory on the gun..

[vladtepes 1,060]

in fact just to add.. I would pretty much replace EXACTLY the same parts on a WASR as I would a Saiga with the exception of the pistol grip nut.. and lower hand guard retainer..

 

so for me.. buying a wasr which has proven to have MIXED reviews at best or a Saiga which has consistently positive reviews..

the choice is simple...

 

unless of course I found the hours worth of work too intimidating.. then I would have to settle for an off the shelf model.. but I am not in the position.. I actually enjoy working on my guns..it is fun to me..

 

that is the appeal of a Saiga..

$100 less and I get to do the work myself..

[Ray Ray 3,566]

You two should get a room.

[RubberBullets 65]

LoL.. loving you guys keep getting into which style/type/brand is better under one platform..You guys have each found a particular type that suits your needs.. one is not better than the other. No need for the same song being replayed on soooo many different threads. I like both your arguments, but neither is the clear winner

[vladtepes 1,060]

LoL.. loving you guys keep getting into which style/type/brand is better under one platform..You guys have each found a particular type that suits your needs.. one is not better than the other. No need for the same song being replayed on soooo many different threads. I like both your arguments, but neither is the clear winner

 

I dont think mine is better.. I am simply relaying my own personal positive experience.. and the countless other positive experiences with the platform..

I can't tell you how many PMs I have gotten saying things like "thanks a lot for the Saiga info" or "oh wow I bough your old Saiga and it is perfect.. the trigger is excellent.. blah blah"

 

so I recommend the gun...

 

it is really inconsequential as to if others purchase it or not.. I am certainly not going to get a kick back for every Saiga sold...

and like I was saying.. maybe there are good WASRs.. the coupleI have had hands on were junk IMO.. one of them felt like the bolt carrier was polished with rocks..

 

so as I have said a million times.. I recommend Russian built Saiga.. because I personally know it works.. not the only answer.. but the one I am familiar with..