Breaking news... Russians think the M16 sucks

[Dan 177]

Video evidence. Look at their frustration and cringing faces, lol

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dc3_1331925091

[Maksim 1,504]

Good video, for those that did not get it... they were doing testing. Water, fine sand, and 1 meter drop test.

 

the AR failed to function after the mag lips and something else (did not catch) deformed after being dropped 5 times.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

What else is new? The AR-15 platform shits where it eats, and relies on a shitty magazine design. It's accurate, lightweight, and works well when maintained and babied a little bit. The AK... well, it just works.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

thinks knows*

[Nikos 31]

Maybe if they stop feeding it that sh1tty wolf ammo, the M16 would actually fire

[Vlad G 345]

Are you telling me that the people who live and die and rule and eat via propaganda are making a video showing how the opponents weapons are shit, and they use a 40 year old model they picked up from some jungle floor to prove their point (that looks like an A1)? No, that can't be!!! Immediately anyone who can afford to pay for guns will stop buying the M16/M4/AR platform and will rush into Africa to pick up all those AKs they had to give away for free. That will show us.

[usnmars 136]

The best way i have heard about the comparison is "an AR is the prom queen and an AK is the biker chick"

[Dan 177]

Are you telling me that the people who live and die and rule and eat via propaganda are making a video showing how the opponents weapons are shit, and they use a 40 year old model they picked up from some jungle floor to prove their point (that looks like an A1)? No, that can't be!!! Immediately anyone who can afford to pay for guns will stop buying the M16/M4/AR platform and will rush into Africa to pick up all those AKs they had to give away for free. That will show us.

 

I'm not taking it serious, neither should you. It is obvious it is a poorly done doctored up propaganda production. Looks like a M16A1, the first iteration with the forward assist. You can tell when the tester is slamming it in disgust everytime there is a malfunction. Posted this more as a joke.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

What else is new? The AR-15 platform shits where it eats, and relies on a shitty magazine design. It's accurate, lightweight, and works well when maintained and babied a little bit. The AK... well, it just works.

 

Really?

[intercooler 41]

ray which do you prefer? I have a nice ar, but honestly? for me, i prefer the ak Is it as accurate? nope...the 74 is better than the 47. but suffice to say, the ak's are accurate enough. They are alot more user friendly. The whole ak vs ar debate is a pissing match, mall ninja types will go ar and people who tend towas practicality go towards the ak.(its alot like the glock vs 1911 thing) They are both fun as heck to shoot...but shtf comes? i am going for my mak 90 or my 870

[dtown223 12]

Aw maaaan!

I wish I'd seen this before I built two M4geries!

anyone want em?

apparently they're total crap ....

[Shane45 807]

AK, practacality, HA thats a good one! tell ya what, we can stand side by side and do a timed mag change. Then we can move over to a table filled with kit such as a DBAL, PVS 14, Red dot, Acog, scope, light, bipod etc etc and go through changing the config of the rifle. We will see which is more practical... Me thinks mall Ninja applies better to those that chant the ak cool aid, insult the AR owners of the world and dont provide ANY logical reasons for their position....

[DevsAdvocate 112]

AK, practacality, HA thats a good one! tell ya what, we can stand side by side and do a timed mag change. Then we can move over to a table filled with kit such as a DBAL, PVS 14, Red dot, Acog, scope, light, bipod etc etc and go through changing the config of the rifle. We will see which is more practical... Me thinks mall Ninja applies better to those that chant the ak cool aid, insult the AR owners of the world and dont provide ANY logical reasons for their position....

 

Just because the AK has faults ergonomically, doesn't mean the AR platform is much better. In all honesty, it's 2012, why the hell are we comparing a dated platform designed 65 years ago to another dated platform designed 52 years ago.

 

The US military shoulda trashed the M-16 by default in the year 2000, and built a whole new rifle from the ground up with a better magazine design, gas system design, ergonomics, and a lifetime reliability of 50,000 rounds without a single piece of maintenance. But noooo... let's just slap some rails on it and call it a day.

[RubberBullets 65]

AK vs AR-15

 

[Shane45 807]

DA, Im not saying its much better, im responding to the mall ninja comments and the claim of user friendly and practicality.........

 

I WILL say its much better for me!

[Ray Ray 3,566]

ray which do you prefer?

 

AK

 

But I don't bash the AR like other goofballs around here.

[Kaiser7 33]

In the AR vs. AK debate, I usually side with the M14. I don't particularly like either of the previous rifles.

 

That being said, I am currently about to get my first AR simply for the reasons that unlike the M1A the ammo is cheaper, and it's a more accurate platform. The AK does have its merits, but to me, the accuracy is the huge draw back. YES, the AK can hit a torso sized target at 200 yards I believe, but the AR's strength is that it can be set up to have a scope to pick targets out at longer ranges, and then quickly be re-purposed for closer engagements. The AR is crappy in that it needs to be babied, which is something that should never be required of a mil-spec weapon. You shouldn't have to worry that brass will be ripped in half, and another round seated within the previous brass, causing a catastrophic jam. That's a life taker right there.

 

That being said, both weapons have their usefulness, both have some pretty good advantages, but honestly, in my opinion at least, there are other, less popular guns, that are much better in all regards, with the exception of maybe cost, things like that. For someone worried about SHTF, or whatever your need for a good semiauto rifle, it probably wouldn't hurt to have both an AR and AK, depending on what your needs are going to be.

[Vlad G 345]

Its good to see all the good old myth are still alive, it wouldn't be the internet without them.

[Shane45 807]

"The AR is crappy in that it needs to be babied, which is something that should never be required of a mil-spec weapon"

 

What is your personal experience to validate this viewpoint? I think it becomes rhetoric when this statement is made over and over on the internet without supporting evidence or experience.

[Vlad G 345]

Shush Shane, don't distract me with facts, I'm busy giving my AR a bath, trimming its nails, and carefully blowing its hair.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

"The AR is crappy in that it needs to be babied, which is something that should never be required of a mil-spec weapon"

 

What is your personal experience to validate this viewpoint? I think it becomes rhetoric when this statement is made over and over on the internet without supporting evidence or experience.

 

I think this is dependent on what those who used the AR platform in real combat tend to think. I think we have two members here on these forums who used these rifles in combat (GRIZ, usnmars I think), and both have opposing views.

 

Frankly, I'm of the school of thought that we can be doing way better than either platform...

[Shane45 807]

Is there room for improvement, always. Way better? Im not so sure. In consideration of those at the tip of the spear, look at how many passed on the SCAR to keep their M4. It is my opinion that from a design and engineering standpoint the SCAR is a superior rifle. However, put a teir 1 AR or a SCAR in my hands and well it just simply doesnt seem to matter. I have both and neither has failed me ever. Neither has been cleaned even once since I got them. The sinlgle only FTF I have even had was with the SCAR when some crappy culled cproducts mag made its way back into my range bag instead of under the heal of my boot. That mag did not work in ANYTHING.

[dtown223 12]

Shush Shane, don't distract me with facts, I'm busy giving my AR a bath, trimming its nails, and carefully blowing its hair.

almost snorted beer put of my nose just now,

great stuff right there!

[vladtepes 1,060]

facts?

 

I have personally run an AR so dirty that it stopped cycling.. period..

I ran an AK along side of it that continued to take abuse 3.. 4.. times the amount the AR failed with.. and still functioned..

I gave up on waiting for the AK to fail..

 

yeah.. the AR is more accurate.. big deal when it comes to a gun you are shooting at someone with.. as long as you HIT the guy it is not going to make much difference HOW you hit him..

so what.. you miss the vitals and hit him in the shoulder now he stops shooting at you.. now his buddy stops shooting at you to try to hold his friends arm onto his body..

a kill shot takes out 1 soldier.. a serious wound takes out several..

 

as far as "mission specific kits" cool things like lights.. optics.. etc..?

my AK has a light AND a quality red dot.. is still short and light and pretty maneuverable..

 

I own an AR.. AND an AK.. and as far as if I had equal amounts of ammo.. in a grunt scenario meaning I am not shooting for precision I would take the AK.. ONLY because I KNOW that it will work every time.. I get that ARs have gotten far more reliable.. but I have driven two different ARs to failure with simple lack of cleaning.. the AK will not do that..

 

the AK is not perfect and has its faults..

but for a "shoot and stop the other person under any conditions imaginable"

the AK edges out the AR ONLY because I do not see where the increased accuracy brings enough to the table..

 

for "far shooting" I would not take an AK OR an AR in 556.. I would personally want at least 308..

 

just opinion...

[dtown223 12]

facts?

 

I have personally run an AR so dirty that it stopped cycling.. period..

I ran an AK along side of it that continued to take abuse 3.. 4.. times the amount the AR failed with.. and still functioned..

I gave up on waiting for the AK to fail..

 

yeah.. the AR is more accurate.. big deal when it comes to a gun you are shooting at someone with.. as long as you HIT the guy it is not going to make much difference HOW you hit him..

so what.. you miss the vitals and hit him in the shoulder now he stops shooting at you.. now his buddy stops shooting at you to try to hold his friends arm onto his body..

a kill shot takes out 1 soldier.. a serious wound takes out several..

 

as far as "mission specific kits" cool things like lights.. optics.. etc..?

my AK has a light AND a quality red dot.. is still short and light and pretty maneuverable..

 

I own an AR.. AND an AK.. and as far as if I had equal amounts of ammo.. in a grunt scenario meaning I am not shooting for precision I would take the AK.. ONLY because I KNOW that it will work every time.. I get that ARs have gotten far more reliable.. but I have driven two different ARs to failure with simple lack of cleaning.. the AK will not do that..

 

the AK is not perfect and has its faults..

but for a "shoot and stop the other person under any conditions imaginable"

the AK edges out the AR ONLY because I do not see where the increased accuracy brings enough to the table..

 

for "far shooting" I would not take an AK OR an AR in 556.. I would personally want at least 308..

 

just opinion...

 

Well written, fair minded and nice to have actual side by side comparisons.

For me , the choice was the AR platform though..

-I like the stopping power of the 7.62 bullet, but I feel .223/5.56 will be more prevalent in a scavenging scenario, and easier to carry more volume if foot mobile is necessary

-availability of parts local to me, in a similar scenario (especially if I have two!)

-while your AK outlasted the AR without a cleaning, if I need to run thousands of rounds without being able to get 15 minutes to give my rifle a once over, then I think I'm pretty much screwed anyway?

Just to be totally fair here, I'll probably be PM'ing you for compliance advice on the AK variant I'm planning for the fall

 

 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

[dtown223 12]

C'MON!

you gotta love that this, AND a 9mm vs .45 thread are both active...

again!

[vladtepes 1,060]

Well written, fair minded and nice to have actual side by side comparisons.

For me , the choice was the AR platform though..

-I like the stopping power of the 7.62 bullet, but I feel .223/5.56 will be more prevalent in a scavenging scenario, and easier to carry more volume if foot mobile is necessary

-availability of parts local to me, in a similar scenario (especially if I have two!)

-while your AK outlasted the AR without a cleaning, if I need to run thousands of rounds without being able to get 15 minutes to give my rifle a once over, then I think I'm pretty much screwed anyway?

Just to be totally fair here, I'll probably be PM'ing you for compliance advice on the AK variant I'm planning for the fall

 

my comments were geared towards a military deployment carrying the ammo they are issued.. in that scenario I feel the AK wins for the type of use it will see..

 

further if you say "somewhere I can't give 15 minutes to clean my gun" you are thinking in the context of a lawful society.. one in which you have access to cleaner.. oil.. etc.. think lawless katrina type scenario.. sure.. ideally you have what you need to maintain your gun.. but if you dont.. the AK will run.. indefinitely.. the AR by my experience may not..

[Ray Ray 3,566]

If we're gonna go by personnel experience then BOTH fail.

 

I had a Stag that absolutely died on steel cased wolf ammo. It became inoperable due to a stuck case in the chamber. I needed a cleaning rod to punch it out.

I had a GP1975 (AK variant) that absolutely died. Wouldn't feed OR eject ammo. She just wouldn't run. Add to that, the front sight was so canted that even if it did run 100% I would have to use crazy Kentucky windage and hopefully hit my target.

[Shane45 807]

Vlad, if it works for you, march on brother. For me Ill choose accuracy and modularity over what I consider a non issue. I havent hit the point that my rifle gums its self to a stop yet but its expected to be around 2000 rounds without lube or cleaning. I dont see a practical benefit to something that can go more. Im not running around with 4000 rounds strapped to my back! So on the topic of modularity, how easily/quickly could you change your AK from this to this?