Why Are You in Favor of CCW in NJ?

[keithco88 3]

I have a logistical question: say it does get approved, what stops every shopping mall, business, and public building from saying "you can't have guns here"?

 

Wouldn't we be reduced to carrying it from our house to our car and in a decent chunk of cases leaving it in our car b/c we're going someplace that won't let us have it? I mean it's concealed, so yeah go do it if you really want to, but letter of the "law" is probably on the side of the business that says "not in my building".

 

That being said, I'm of the boy scout "be prepared" mentality and would absolutely carry when possible and I didn't think it presented an undue risk to myself or my family (i.e. i'm goin out to get hammered with the guys). I'm just curious as to how much we'd realistically be able to carry...

[Ronald Silver 2]

What are the liabilities of having firearms stolen from vehicles, even if it is legal to keep them in autos in other states?

I ask this because in places that forbid it, you'll have to leave them behind in your auto.

Sometimes, you may not even realize it until you arrive & the door has a NO GUN sticker on it.

[this_is_nascar 162]

I have a logistical question: say it does get approved, what stops every shopping mall, business, and public building from saying "you can't have guns here"?

 

Wouldn't we be reduced to carrying it from our house to our car and in a decent chunk of cases leaving it in our car b/c we're going someplace that won't let us have it? I mean it's concealed, so yeah go do it if you really want to, but letter of the "law" is probably on the side of the business that says "not in my building".

 

That being said, I'm of the boy scout "be prepared" mentality and would absolutely carry when possible and I didn't think it presented an undue risk to myself or my family (i.e. i'm goin out to get hammered with the guys). I'm just curious as to how much we'd realistically be able to carry...

 

 

You're getting ahead of me, but great post .

[this_is_nascar 162]

Why do I want a CCW? Because there are a lot of jealous husbands out there...

 

Honestly, I don't think I have to justify "why" at all. You might as well ask me why I'm a Jew or why I don't quarter troops in my home, or why I feel I should be exempted from warrantless searches.

 

The constitution is not a buffet. New Jersey should not be able to chose which rights it bestows upon it citizens.

 

 

Sorry. I had no intentions of insulting or upsetting you or anyone else.

[BarkNBite 15]

So what..............do as they do in PAFO......post a list of the stores that prohibit and shop elsewhere.

Maybe they'll change their attitudes with loss of business and goodwill.

[SpecialK 193]

I have a logistical question: say it does get approved, what stops every shopping mall, business, and public building from saying "you can't have guns here"?

 

Wouldn't we be reduced to carrying it from our house to our car and in a decent chunk of cases leaving it in our car b/c we're going someplace that won't let us have it? I mean it's concealed, so yeah go do it if you really want to, but letter of the "law" is probably on the side of the business that says "not in my building".

 

That being said, I'm of the boy scout "be prepared" mentality and would absolutely carry when possible and I didn't think it presented an undue risk to myself or my family (i.e. i'm goin out to get hammered with the guys). I'm just curious as to how much we'd realistically be able to carry...

 

In Colorado we would vote with our wallet. Someone put up a sign on one of their shops in old town Fort Collins that was basically a little grocery store and it went out of business a few months later. For the bigger ones like the movie theatre we just carried anyways as all they could do if it was found that we have a firearm is ask us to leave. Of course you'd have to be doing a pretty crappy job of CONCEALED carrying for anyone to know. If found on the property of someone who did not want you to have a firearm and you stayed you could only be charged with tresspassing. In many cases in life it is better to ask for forgiveness than for permission.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I have a logistical question: say it does get approved, what stops every shopping mall, business, and public building from saying "you can't have guns here"?

 

Keith: Nothing - that's what having private property rights is all about. However, it depends how the CCW law is written. I.e. Do signs have the weight of law? In most states they do not and the most you could be charged with is defiant trespass and only if you are found to be carrying and asked to leave and you do not comply. Some states do give signs the weight of law, but the signs have to be of a very specific format and posted in specific places or they are not valid.

 

These are all bridges that will need to be crossed when we are a heck of a lot closer to CCW in this state, than we are now. Suffice it to say that 40 other states have managed to find workable solutions.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[mcbethr 42]

Sorry. I had no intentions of insulting or upsetting you or anyone else.

 

Didn't take offense to it at all. Just giving an example.

 

What kind of outcry would we see if the state of New Jersey said that needed a permit to become a Jew?

 

What if you needed a background check, employer notification, two references and a 30 day wait for an abortion?

 

The citizens of this state would cry to the heavens if that happened. But replace the word "abortion" with the word "gun" and suddenly its okay.

 

A right is a right.

[keithco88 3]

Thanks Bob & SpecialK...much clearer on the implementation based on how other places do it.

 

Especially agree with if you're doing a good job of CONCEALED it shouldn't be an issue.

[mcbethr 42]

Oh, one more thing.

 

I think that if NJ ever did pass some kind of shall-issue, I don't see employers and businesses suddenly putting up signs. Technically, NJ has CCW now, and I've yet to see a "no gun" sign anywhere.

 

I think that firearms just aren't on the radar screen for a lot of NJ residents. Heck, I know people who didn't even know that Dicks Sporting Goods sells guns. So I could see "Shall Issue" passing, or being forced on NJ by the courts, but I can't see some kind public effort to restrict it.

 

I think that if CCW passes, you will still see about 14% of people in NJ owning guns and of that maybe 5% carrying on a regular basis. I can't see a big shift in public mindset with only 60,000 or so CCW holders.

[Kasanova 2]

I would CCW, because the current law will put you in jail for stopping to get a cup of coffee or gas or even a bite to eat via the drive thru. It almost happen to me a couple of times on my way to and from the range. CCW is just a security of knowing "ok i could stop (insert) with out going to jail"

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

I think that if CCW passes, you will still see about 14% of people in NJ owning guns and of that maybe 5% carrying on a regular basis

 

If CCW passes, I don't even see 5% of NJ gun owners going for it. I don't think there is much interest in actually. To many other laws would have to change so you're not nailing yourself against the wall if you finding yourself actually needing to take care of business.

 

Besides, you'd still have to jump through all the qualification hoops.

 

And on top of that, it doesn't help all that much with regards to the exemptions.

[Mo Vice 7]

As a road warrior where my territory extends from Union, through Irvington, Harrison, Jersey City, and all of Newark, I think about the "what if" scenario every single day. The second I park my car in an unfamiliar or high-crime rate area, I'm always thinking. I'm always aware of my surroundings and try to stay within high-traffic areas, but something is eventually going to happen... And then what, pepper spray? Where's my NJ CCW?

[Midwest 28]

I have a logistical question: say it does get approved, what stops every shopping mall, business, and public building from saying "you can't have guns here"?

 

Wouldn't we be reduced to carrying it from our house to our car and in a decent chunk of cases leaving it in our car b/c we're going someplace that won't let us have it? I mean it's concealed, so yeah go do it if you really want to, but letter of the "law" is probably on the side of the business that says "not in my building".

 

That being said, I'm of the boy scout "be prepared" mentality and would absolutely carry when possible and I didn't think it presented an undue risk to myself or my family (i.e. i'm goin out to get hammered with the guys). I'm just curious as to how much we'd realistically be able to carry...

 

 

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?99708-Kentucky-Gun-Laws

 

Here how it is done in my state of Kentucky

 

 

CARRY/OWN

 

[+]237.020 Permit to own: No

 

[+]237.110 Permit to carry: Not openly

 

[+]527.100 Minimum age to OC: 18 for both handguns and long guns

 

[+]527.100 Minimum age to own a firearm: 18

 

[..]Registration of firearms: No

 

[+]527.020(8) Transport: Loaded or unloaded. In plain view or in any compartment installed by the original manufacturer.

 

[+]503.055 Castle Law: Yes

 

[+]503.080 Duty to retreat: No

 

[..]Must inform: No

 

[+]526.010 Record police: Yes, one party consent.

 

[+]244.125 Carrying in a bar: Unloaded and unconcealed only.

 

[+]244.125 Restaurant carry (as opposed to a bar): Yes, loaded if desired. It must make more than 50% of its earnings on FOOD and has at least 50 seats in the dining facility.

 

[..]Signs having weight of law: No, but if a prohibited place fails to post you're still in violation if you carry.

 

[+]237.106 Able to keep firearms at work: Yes, in your vehicle.

 

[+]527.070 Able to keep firearms at school(k-12): Only stored in your vehicle during drop off and pick up.

 

CONCEAL CARRY

 

[+]237.110 Permit to carry: Yes, CCDW

 

[+]237.110 Minimum age to apply for a CCDW: 21

 

[+]237.110 [+]500.080 Legal to carry concealed: Any deadly weapon including, but not limited to, firearms, knifes, metal knuckles, billy club.

 

[+]237.110(20)(a) Honors all states conceal carry permits.

 

[+]KY state police.org States that honor KY CCDW: AL, AK, AR, AZ, CO, DE, FL, GA, ID, IA, IN, KS, LA, MI, MN, MS, MO, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, VT, WV, WI, WY. Some states may honor a KY CCDW permit but restrict carry to only handguns, all states listed are subject to their own laws. You must follow the laws of the state that you're in. RI and US Virgin Islands may honor with additional restrictions.

 

[+]508.050 Printing: Displaying a firearm in itself isn't a crime.

 

[+]527.020 Transport: With a permit you can have it anywhere in the vehicle.

 

[+]237.110 Places you cannot legally conceal: Police/Sheriff dept, detention facility, Court of Justice, government meeting, bar, any place where carrying of firearms are prohibited by federal law.

 

[+]237.115 No criminal penalty shall attach to carrying a concealed firearm or other deadly weapon with a permit at any location at which an unconcealed firearm or other deadly weapon may be constitutionally carried.

 

[+]237.110 A CCDW holder must carry the permit at all times he/she is conceal carrying. Failure to provide CCDW at the request of a LEO is a non criminal $25 fine without court cost.

 

Misc Laws

 

[+]519.020 Obstructing: A person is guilty of obstructing governmental operations when he intentionally obstructs, impairs or hinders the performance of a governmental function by using or threatening to use violence, force or physical interference.

 

[+]525.60 Disorderly Conduct: A person is guilty of disorderly conduct in the second degree when in a public place and with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, or wantonly creating a risk thereof, he engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous, or threatening behavior; makes unreasonable noise; refuses to obey an official order to disperse issued to maintain public safety in dangerous proximity to a fire, hazard, or other emergency; or creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act that serves no legitimate purpose.

 

[+]525.30 Cruelty to an animal does not apply to:

Killing of a aggressive animal in self defense/ defense of another or in defense of a domesticated animal.

[keithco88 3]

http://forum.opencar...ntucky-Gun-Laws

 

Here how it is done in my state of Kentucky

 

 

CARRY/OWN

 

[+]237.020 Permit to own: No

 

[+]237.110 Permit to carry: Not openly

 

[+]527.100 Minimum age to OC: 18 for both handguns and long guns

 

[+]527.100 Minimum age to own a firearm: 18

 

[..]Registration of firearms: No

 

[+]527.020(8) Transport: Loaded or unloaded. In plain view or in any compartment installed by the original manufacturer.

 

[+]503.055 Castle Law: Yes

 

[+]503.080 Duty to retreat: No

 

[..]Must inform: No

 

[+]526.010 Record police: Yes, one party consent.

 

[+]244.125 Carrying in a bar: Unloaded and unconcealed only.

 

[+]244.125 Restaurant carry (as opposed to a bar): Yes, loaded if desired. It must make more than 50% of its earnings on FOOD and has at least 50 seats in the dining facility.

 

[..]Signs having weight of law: No, but if a prohibited place fails to post you're still in violation if you carry.

 

[+]237.106 Able to keep firearms at work: Yes, in your vehicle.

 

[+]527.070 Able to keep firearms at school(k-12): Only stored in your vehicle during drop off and pick up.

 

CONCEAL CARRY

 

[+]237.110 Permit to carry: Yes, CCDW

 

[+]237.110 Minimum age to apply for a CCDW: 21

 

[+]237.110 [+]500.080 Legal to carry concealed: Any deadly weapon including, but not limited to, firearms, knifes, metal knuckles, billy club.

 

[+]237.110(20)(a) Honors all states conceal carry permits.

 

[+]KY state police.org States that honor KY CCDW: AL, AK, AR, AZ, CO, DE, FL, GA, ID, IA, IN, KS, LA, MI, MN, MS, MO, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, VT, WV, WI, WY. Some states may honor a KY CCDW permit but restrict carry to only handguns, all states listed are subject to their own laws. You must follow the laws of the state that you're in. RI and US Virgin Islands may honor with additional restrictions.

 

[+]508.050 Printing: Displaying a firearm in itself isn't a crime.

 

[+]527.020 Transport: With a permit you can have it anywhere in the vehicle.

 

[+]237.110 Places you cannot legally conceal: Police/Sheriff dept, detention facility, Court of Justice, government meeting, bar, any place where carrying of firearms are prohibited by federal law.

 

[+]237.115 No criminal penalty shall attach to carrying a concealed firearm or other deadly weapon with a permit at any location at which an unconcealed firearm or other deadly weapon may be constitutionally carried.

 

[+]237.110 A CCDW holder must carry the permit at all times he/she is conceal carrying. Failure to provide CCDW at the request of a LEO is a non criminal $25 fine without court cost.

 

Misc Laws

 

[+]519.020 Obstructing: A person is guilty of obstructing governmental operations when he intentionally obstructs, impairs or hinders the performance of a governmental function by using or threatening to use violence, force or physical interference.

 

[+]525.60 Disorderly Conduct: A person is guilty of disorderly conduct in the second degree when in a public place and with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, or wantonly creating a risk thereof, he engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous, or threatening behavior; makes unreasonable noise; refuses to obey an official order to disperse issued to maintain public safety in dangerous proximity to a fire, hazard, or other emergency; or creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act that serves no legitimate purpose.

 

[+]525.30 Cruelty to an animal does not apply to:

Killing of a aggressive animal in self defense/ defense of another or in defense of a domesticated animal.

 

that's the most sensible laws I've ever seen...there's no "heretofor" or "aforementioned" or "behest"...pretty nice

 

Question on transport: so you can't put a gunrack in the car or something? needs to be orig manufacturer equipment on the vehicle?

[Midwest 28]

that's the most sensible laws I've ever seen...there's no "heretofor" or "aforementioned" or "behest"...pretty nice

 

Question on transport: so you can't put a gunrack in the car or something? needs to be orig manufacturer equipment on the vehicle?

 

I have seen gun racks on pickup trucks in the country, I have not seen one in a car though.

 

A permit is not needed if the gun is in plain sight in the vehicle. Also a permit is not needed for a loaded handgun in the glove compartment, center console, or any factory compartment...because Kentucky does not consider it concealed. And concealed is where everything comes into play here. With the positive gun laws here, one may find it strange that Kentucky was probably the first state in the country with a gun law ..."Kentucky’s statute of 1813, the first to forbid the carrying of concealed weapons" .

 

http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/FJK.htm

[Sandy 44]

I'm in favor of it because it is a constitutional right in this country . I also think the citizens should be allowed to carry because Lord knows the bad citizens are. Gun laws have done nothing the curb the gun violence in the USA . If a guy is going to go rob a store and take a few hostages , do you think he cares if he is breaking the law by carrying a gun? Gun laws are an epic fail in the crime reduction department , the campaigns against gun violence have made everyday citizens afraid of guns, even if they are in the hands of responsible owners, by stating twisted stats like " you are more than likely to be killed by your own gun that be saved by it" , erroneous reporting by the media ( and by the idiots who make statements after NDs ) make people think that even if you are careful with a gun it can "just go off" ..

 

On a side note , I do get the private property thing. And I am not saying I think a restaurant should allow you to carry your gun inside. That I have to think about more.

 

However , the fact is , when you use your private property to generate revenue or deal with the public in anyway the laws change. For instance , example , let's say an Applebees in NJ . It is private property , yes ..but they can't ask you to please not say grace out loud , they can't ask you not to wear a yarmulke on your head or a crucifix on your neck in their establishment , they can't turn you away from their establishment based on the color of your skin , AND they are not allowed to tell a breastfeeding mother to cover up. They have to put ADA doors and ramps in, using their own money, the minute they apply for a permit to do any kind of work or upgrades to their establishment. I know a pizza place in Kearny..they guy wanted to do some imporvements to the facade , in order to get the permit he had to agree to make his building ADA compliant. He had to put in a 10K elevator.

 

In other examples , when it comes to safety , your constitutional rights are allowed to be challenged by a property owner while he is conducting business . A good exampe is banning burkas in banks or other high security risk businesses like check cashing facilities. And you are allowed to prevent someone from picketing on your private property in some instances , but not others.

 

Take the privately owned park with the OWS people. They were not allowed to "only " kick out the protestors..they had to close the whole park to the public to legally get them out of there so they could "clean" ..they were not allowed to single out and violate the 1st ammendment rights of the protestors..they havd to close it to the whole public and say they had to "clean"

 

So there are gray areas when you are conducting business with/on your "private property " . It becomes less "private" when you open it to the public and you are subject to certain laws that dictate equality and protect the rights of your customers . Like it? Fine carry on. Don't like it? You'll be in court , and you will be fined.

 

I just find the whole " it's private property" angle slightly misused here ( i DON'T MEAN HERE IN THIS THREAD , iMEAN IN OTHER THREADS) ..it is true that you can do whatever you want or make any rules you want on your private property BUT if your private property is open to the public and/or makes money from the public , you lose a lot of your private property rights . Again a good example is breastfeeding . According the the law in NJ ( and a lot of other states) if a woman is allowed to be there otherwise , she is allowed to be there breastfeeding and she does not have to make efforts to cover up. That is the law. So a private property owner who has his private property open as a business to the public can't kick her out for having both barrels out and free and visible ( unless they are real barrels on real guns) .

 

Another example - if you own a Bed and Breakfast ( which is usually your home as well ) , you can't turn a person away because they are of a certain race or religion. And you can't tell a mom not to nurse in the common areas.

 

You can make any rules you want and exclude anyone you want on your private property ..but if your private property is open to or makes money from the general public , there are laws regarding conducting business and treating patrons equally and observing certain rights of patrons..and they often overlap with your private property rights.

 

Again , I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with "your property , your choice " I'm just pointing out it is not so cut and dry once you are also a business serving the public.

[Midwest 28]

Just across the river from me, there is Ohio. And Ohio it is a different story regading gun laws than here in Kentucky. In Ohio there seem to be many places that prohibit concealed carry including , fast food take out places, malls, electronic stores, that huge food store Jungle Jims in Fairfield Ohio prohibits conceal carry. In addition I have even seen CCW prohibited in Pawn Stores and even gun stores in Ohio.

 

And in Ohio there is also a duty to inform police officers if stopped while carrying. KY has no such law. KY allows one to have a loaded handgun in the glove compartment without a permit. Ohio and Indiana require permits for a loaded gun in the glove compartment.

 

So even though KY, Ohio and Indiana are close by each other and all have concealed carry permits. The laws are very different in other respects. One could end up with a felony in one state, but in the other state it could be perfectly legal. So while having a concealed carry permit in is a great thing, one needs to pay attention where they are and know what the laws are when they cross into the state. Being aware of the laws is important with conceal carry permits.

[zoid 24]

Might be kind of an unorthodox reason but I'd like CCW laws to apply in this

state so that there is less chance of me getting busted for some stupid gun

transport law or something to that affect. If I had a CCW license then presumably

I could have my gun loaded in the car and I could make stops weather legally

"reasonable" or not.

 

So is it weird to say I'd like to CCW for protection from... THE LAW?!

[tommy3rd 132]

I'm in favor of CCW in NJ because I want to know what it feels like to live in America without having to move.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Because it's a Right... though, given where I work, I probably won't CCW very often.

[colnar 0]

Because it is my right and I want to be able to protect myself and my family.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I'm against CCW, is that bad?

[woodentoe 14]

I would CCW, because the current law will put you in jail for stopping to get a cup of coffee or gas or even a bite to eat via the drive thru. It almost happen to me a couple of times on my way to and from the range. CCW is just a security of knowing "ok i could stop (insert) with out going to jail"

 

There is nothing in the transport law that says you are jailbound for eating and refueling. Food, fuel and personal safety are necessities of transport. Food and water are necessary to sustain life, therefore obtaining food is a reasonable deviation. Sitting in a restaurant for an hour is perhaps not necessary for sustaining life. Bit I think your example of fuel and drive thru is over the top.

 

I'd get my ccw though if it were possible. It just eliminates a lot of the silly restrictions. But chances are if they passed it, you wouldnt be allowed to store in your vehicle. So, if you needed to go anywhere that restricted weapons, youd have to leave them home.

[Underdog 1,593]

All mature and responsible citizens have both the right and responsibility to defend themselves and those around them. And, even if I did not choose to carry for myself, there are others that depend on them.

 

Additionally, I have actually had a close interaction with a Puma concolor in this state and that was enough for me to have a desire to protect myself and my family.

[Sandy 44]

Really? You saw a Mountain lion in NJ? I keep hearing reports to that effect. Wow.

[GeorgeHM 5]

While I am new to this forum. My stance is I am for open carry with ccw as beter option. To me ccw gives me the option of carring a gun with out having to show that I have one on. But I do believe it will be a long up hill battle to get NJ Laws chagned to allow that to happen but I am still hopefull for it.

[anabolism 2]

Im in favor of CCW because the bad guys are already carrying

[Qel Hoth 33]

There are a few reasons I support CCW.

 

Firstly, the right to self defense is a fundamental human right. While I am no 90 year old man, I have no delusions about my ability to successfully defend myself from someone who wishes to do me harm, particularly if they are armed with a knife or a gun, using only my fists and feet. Weapons, and particularly firearms, are simply the most recent progression of what humans have been doing for the past 40,000 years - make tools to give us an advantage.

 

Second, I feel that I have an obligation to protect myself and my friends and family from those who wish to do us harm. A concealed firearm is the most practical tool for this purpose.

 

Third, while there will invariably be people who misuse and abuse their right to carry a weapon, the net result of an armed populace will be positive.

 

Our society is one built upon law and order. Those who do not wish to fit into our society and intentionally cause harm to others have no place in our society. Society need not fear the common thug, the common thug should fear society.

[david8613 69]

work in newark, thats enough reason to want to....