More ammo restrictions for NJ

[johnp 45]

Just took a quick look at their prices for 9mm. Last week I got 9mm from Cabelas for much cheaper and free shipping. Midway wants to create barricades for their customers; simple...shop elsewhere.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Exactly..I will just buy ammo somewhere else.

[Dan 177]

NJ is an expert when it comes to providing the illusion of adhering to the US Constitution and being open and free. NJ claims that they do have a sound, fair, and "reasonable" process for its citizens to obtain a CCW license, therefore they are not a state that denies 2A (of course they do not acknowledge it either).

 

With the HG ammo law, they can claim they do not outright prohibit interstate mail-order ammo sales, they just require a bunch "reasonable" processes to be followed. Of course in reality, companies that are threatened would just rather not participate. Just like nobody bothers to apply for NJ CCW permits....

 

All they have to do is walk the fine line of regulating up to the gray boundary of what amounts to an outright ban without stepping over that line. Provided they can keep this up, they will get away with it. It is up to us to fight in order to move that gray line into the black and white zone and have these ridiculous de-facto bans disguised as "reasonable" regulations struck down.

[deadeye74 5]

Do any other states require a FID issued by the state for ammo purchases? If we are the only ones, I would not call that reasonable.

 

I know I may be grasping at straws but there has to be some way we can gain some legal footing here. It's tiring to keep getting kicked in the crotch!

[this_is_nascar 162]

If you go to Dicks in NJ they write-down your info when you buy handgun ammo and escort you to the counter to pay for it, whatever, I don't care. You go to Cabellas in PA and take whatever you like off the shelf (handgun/long gun) and go to the counter and pay for it, no escort, no ID needed.

 

If Midway doesn't want to see us ammo, so what, there are plenty of places on-line to deal with.

 

 

 

The few times I've purchase ammo at the Dicks in Deptford, I've never been escorted to the front check-out of the store. I tell the guy what I want, he retrieves it from the locked cage, asked for my FID and records the ammo I want. I then take that ammo to the front of the store to pay for it.

[BCeagle 12]

+1 Harry

 

The only thing I will add to this is prepare to make ur own bullets as well....

 

I cast for every caliber I own....cept. 223

 

You will be well prepared when the Zombies come.

 

This article made me reassess my stock of ammo. I usually keep

1200 of 9mm

500 .45

200 308 WIn

100 buck shot

 

I think I need to increase them all by 200 at least.

[XDJohnTact 49]

A little off topic (sorry), but has anyone else have this happen at Dick's in Brick? The last three times I bought ammo, the guy records it in his "bound book" but always puts down the wrong caliber? Once he wrote down 9mm when I bought .223 and some bulk .22lr (yes, I know .233 if rifle ammo) and the other time he wrote down .357 when I bought 9mm and some .223? I forget what he wrote down the first time but I know it did not match what I actually purchased (again .223). I did not think too much of it at the time, I figure it is just sloppy book keeping. However, any time I buy ammo in Brick, they just put it in the clear plastic box and I take it to the register unescorted.

[stever 16]

Just received my order of Sierra Gold Dot 40 s&w..not from Midway!

[EchoMirage 137]

i just ordered pistol ammo from natchez. nothing new, no FID or license needed

[halbautomatisch 60]

i just ordered pistol ammo from natchez. nothing new, no FID or license needed

 

It will be soon if people keep posting this on a forum that anyone can read.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

You will be well prepared when the Zombies come.

 

This article made me reassess my stock of ammo. I usually keep

1200 of 9mm

500 .45

200 308 WIn

100 buck shot

 

I think I need to increase them all by 200 at least.

 

I would increase them all by X 10 or better..

[hd2000fxdl 422]

+1 Harry

 

The only thing I will add to this is prepare to make ur own bullets as well....

 

I cast for every caliber I own....cept. 223

 

Maybe one day, but with 30K and only half of that being 22LR I'm doing ok for a while, that and I have bullets on order and will be putting in another larger order soon.

 

Pardon the pun, but shooting for at least 5K of Minor loads and 5K of major loads for my .40S&W in addition to 2K+ of factory ammo.

 

I'll get into loading 9mm and .45ACP soon enough, just waiting on a few supplies and setting up for 5-10 k of each soon enough.

 

Is that not enough to hold me for a little while???

[Murphy4570 15]

The few times I've purchase ammo at the Dicks in Deptford, I've never been escorted to the front check-out of the store. I tell the guy what I want, he retrieves it from the locked cage, asked for my FID and records the ammo I want. I then take that ammo to the front of the store to pay for it.

 

Yeah, same thing here. Bought two boxes of 30-06 last year at that store, clerk asked in a surprised voice "Only two boxes?". I guess they get a lot of hunters in there who own 30-06 rifles? They were out of FMJ when I was there at the time too.

 

I got the ammo, wandered around the store a little bit (looking at some Flyers jerseys), and then went to the register. Didn't observe anybody paying me any attention, much less escorting me to the register!

[quikz 34]

Saw this coming years ago when they started that "journal" to record your pistol ammo purchases at sporting goods stores. I was like, WTF is this!?!? Store was like, 'Oh, (they) just want to keep a record of our ammo sales, nothing to do with you. Oh...It's just something they want to keep for now, prolly doesnt mean anything. Oh.....it's just a formality I guess. Etc, etc and Oh....Etc.......................

[NJDrew1 0]

OK, here is the response I got, which at least explains why they are denying NJ purchasers - although they may be calling some of us liars. LOL. Here's the response...

 

Dear Robert,

 

Again, thank you for your reply. You are 100% correct in stating that the law changed in 2008. But New Jersey law requires any company selling ammunition to a resident of New Jersey to maintain records of that sale for seven years. Our current record keeping software is not set up to maintain those records for that long. Therefore we cannot legally sell ammunition to you.

 

If there are any NJ residents posting anywhere that they purchased ammunition from us, then they either had it shipped to an alternate address, didn't purchase ammunition that wasn't categorized as handgun ammo, or are stretching the truth. Any item that is put in your shopping cart that has been deemed illegal to sell to a NJ resident will not allow your order to process until that item is removed.

 

MidwayUSA wants to sell all of our products to every US citizen. It's only local government and their laws that stand in our way.

 

If you have any additional questions or comments, please feel free to contact us at 1-800-243-3220. Our hours of operation are Monday through Friday 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. CT; Saturday and Sunday 9 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. CT. You may also email us at [email protected].

 

Thanks for Your Business!

 

Daren

MidwayUSA Customer Service

 

OK, so my question is: Where is this seven year edict? It's not in the statutes. I did find the following in the NJAC:

 

N.J.A.C. 13:54-3.14 Permanent record of receipt and disposition of firearms and

ammunition

(b) Every retail dealer of ammunition shall maintain a permanent record of ammunition

acquisition and disposition. The record of purchase or acquisition shall consist of invoices or

other commercial records, which shall be filed in an orderly manner separate from other

commercial records maintained. Such records shall show the name of the manufacturer, the type,

caliber or gauge, quantity of the ammunition acquired in the transaction, the date of each

acquisition and from whom received. The record of sale or disposition shall be maintained in a

bound form and shall contain the date of the transaction, name of manufacturer, caliber or gauge,

quantity of ammunition sold, name, address and date of birth of purchaser, and identification

used to establish the identity of purchaser. The dealer shall confirm the age of the purchaser of

rifle and shotgun ammunition to be at least 18, and handgun ammunition to be at least 21. No

record need be maintained for the sale or disposition of shotgun or rifle ammunition. However,

sales or other dispositions of ammunition intended for use in any other firearm and which may

be interchangeable between rifles and handguns, as well as hollow-nosed or dum-dum

ammunition, must be recorded. The records shall be maintained in chronological order by date of

acquisition and disposition and shall be kept at the location the business is being conducted.

© The firearms and ammunition acquisition and disposition record as prescribed under this

section need not be required, provided the dealer maintains an updated Federal firearms and

ammunition record on firearms or ammunition purchased or acquired and sold as prescribed in

Title 26, Internal Revenue, Chapter 1 "Commerce in Firearms and Ammunition", and to the

extent that the information required by this section is included on such records. If not included,

then the Federal records are to be supplemented so as to include all information required by this

section.

 

You will notice that paragraph © supplants the requirements in paragraph (b).

 

So I guess I have some questions that are best answered by some of our legal eagles and FFL holders.

 

1) Is the "Disposition Record" referred to in paragraph © a federal requirement? And if so, does it contain the same info as required by the state "Disposition Record" referred to in paragraph (b)?

 

2) Is the federal "Disposition Record" considered permanent?

 

3) Can the state enforce its regulations (not laws) on vendors doing business in the state via interstate commerce?

 

4) Where did this "seven years" maintenance of records come from? And, referring back to #3, can an out of state vendor be forced to comply?

 

Well, what say you, knowledgable ones?

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

Bob -- General IRS regulations recommend that you keep business records for 7 years (although my CPA recommends that personnel records be kept for 7, general business records for 3). The NJ statute if requiring ammo dealers to keep a permanent record (not just 7 years, but a permanent record. Midway's policy is wrapped around not wanting to keep a perment record for each customer to which they sell ammo. I can imagine it would uktimately become a record storage hell. Here's the latest email from Midway.

 

Dear Andrew,

 

Thanks for your contact with Larry. I’m sorry it’s taken a while to respond—Larry’s been very busy videotaping his vignettes for “Wednesday Night at the Range”. Between this and his other obligations as CEO, it takes him a while to respond to customer inquiries. He asked me to follow up with you.

 

We recently did an audit of our policies regarding adherence to state and local firearms laws. We were told that NJ law stipulates the seller (us) must maintain records of ammunition sales INDEFINITELY. We destroy our records after 7 years. As we’re unable to follow NJ law we were forced to suspend ammunition sales to NJ. I appreciate your understanding and apologize for any inconvenience.

[Melgamatic 66]

I bought a lot of stuff from Midway, probably more than $10K in the past 3 years. I'll tell them I am stopping. There's no reason for them to be following this rule, and there are plenty of other well-run firms that don't share this half-a** legal opinion.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Andrew:

 

I'd write him back and ask for a cite. Tell him you are conversant with the firearm statutes in NJ and there is no requirement. You can reference the NJAC, but emphasize they are not the law.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Zell959 40]

I bought a lot of stuff from Midway, probably more than $10K in the past 3 years. I'll tell them I am stopping. There's no reason for them to be following this rule, and there are plenty of other well-run firms that don't share this half-a** legal opinion.

 

I'm in the same boat, athough probably well shy of the $10K mark. I've bought a lot from midway, but I'll be shopping elsewhere from now on given that they can't even provide particularly convincing [or consistent] explinations of their policy regarding handgun ammo sales to nj.

[hcasillasjr 1]

Just ordered 9BPLE Federal Hollow Points from Cheaper Than Dirt. Shipped yesterday and are in transit. I had to fax them over my FID and DL but not other hiccups. You guys may want to consider ordering from them before all Online Retailers decide to cut off NJ.

[Justjules 0]

I don't think I've ever ordered ammo from Midway, but I have ordered parts/accessories there and have an account. Just logged in, put some Speer gold dot 9mm JHP's in the cart and tried to check out. Immediately after selecting my "ship-to" address I got the following:

 

 

 

I'm then presented with the option of either changing my shipping address or removing the "restricted" items from the order.

 

So are some Midway customers able to order (this_is_nascar ?) and some aren't?

 

I have 4 boxed of Speer GoldDot Hollow points 147Gr 9mm, pm me if interested.

[Zell959 40]

...You guys may want to consider ordering from them before all Online Retailers decide to cut off NJ.

 

Why? No laws have changed. MidwayUSA just decided to give us the brushoff on a poorly-researched whim.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

I have 4 boxed of Speer GoldDot Hollow points 147Gr 9mm, pm me if interested.

 

Uhh, thanks, but no, I just did that to test out Midway's ordering system.

[Justjules 0]

What is the difference between shipping handgun ammo or rifle ammo to NJ? Silly..

[Justjules 0]

Uhh, thanks, but no, I just did that to test out Midway's ordering system.

Cool, if you know anyone looking for 9mm ammo I got 4 50 rd boxes of it. Ill swap it for 45acp. I got rid of my 9mm and have no use for it.

[reloaderguy 30]

+1 Harry

 

The only thing I will add to this is prepare to make ur own bullets as well....

 

I cast for every caliber I own....cept. 223

 

Well then you are missing out on probably the most savings for reloading .223. Went to Ft. Dix last Saturday and put 25 rounds of my reloads into the black at 100 yards! No different than reloading any other caliber except you have to trim the cases. Besides MIDWAY sucks with their over inflated shipping charges. I stopped doing business with them years ago!

[this_is_nascar 162]

Not sure when this went info affect, but here's what I bought from Midway in February of this year.

 

Order Information:

 

Item ID

Description

Qty

Price

786954

Remington Golden Saber Ammunitio...

5

$15.99

250234

Federal Champion Target Ammuniti...

10

$10.99

217034

Hogue Grip Screws Hex Head Beret...

2

$8.39

 

 

 

 

 

This was another order in February.

 

Order Information:

 

Item ID

Description

Qty

Price

250234

Federal Champion TargetAmmuniti...

10

$10.99

 

 

 

 

 

This was in December of 2011.

 

 

Item ID

Description

Qty

Price Each

521124

MidwayUSA Tactical Pistol Gun Ca...

2

$9.99

649187

Hogue Wraparound Rubber Grips wi...

1

$18.49

218194

Aguila Super Maximum Ammunition ...

1

$31.49

110805

Aguila Interceptor Ammunition 22...

1

$52.99

[freeulster 0]

I took delivery last week from UPS of 250rds of plinking grade 45acp and 1080rds of 5.45x39 in a spam can. Ordered from my favorite online retailer. no questions asked.