Showing a Rifle

[this_is_nascar 162]

Consider the following:

 

- I have a valid NJ FID card.

- My neighbor has a valid NJ FID Card.

- The neighbor in question lives right next door.

- The rifle is question is not and will not be loaded during this time.

 

If I show him the rifle and pass it to him to hold, outside and in the open, within either his or my backyard, is that a problem legally? I'm not interested in hearing about "what the other neighbors might do", etc, just the legality of act of showing him my unloaded rifle and allowing him to hold it outside, in either of our yards.

[Gun Guy in NJ 10]

with FID you are both ok.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

For a long gun you're good..

[this_is_nascar 162]

Thought so, but wanted to be sure. Thanks guys.

[Aleshka 0]

I would say even if you don't have the FID card, but your neighbor does, and you own the rifle legally you can show it to him. Let's say you are considering selling it and he is inspecting it.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

It makes me sick that this question must even be raised

[fumanchu182 23]

It makes me sick that this question must even be raised

 

That's NJ for you. Police state through and through.

[Murphy4570 15]

That's NJ for you. Police state through and through.

 

Yup. Hell, I get nervous sometimes just cleaning my stuff in my garage with the door open.

[vjf915 456]

I would seriously suggest a more discrete method of showing your neighbor your rifle. I think that either taking it into his house, or inviting him over to your house, would both be better options. Not for legal issues...but simply for keeping the fact that you own firearms more of a secret. You don't know your neighbors well enough. What if one neighbor happens to see it, tells all his friends, yadda yadda....next thing you know, someone's breaking into your house because they KNOW you have firearms. I just think it's safer to keep the number of people who know you're a firearms owner low. You can do as you please, simply consider what I'm saying.

[Dan 177]

IMO, IANAL, but technically this scenario would be illegal without following the laws on xfers/acquisition/disposition of firearms. This would be a temporary xfer under the law. It can only take place under certain circumstances. FID's are not the issue. COE's are. If you want to hand a long gun to someone else outside of the temporary xfer exemptions, COE's would have to be filled out before the xfer can take place. Then when the gun is handed back, a new set of COE's would technically need to be filled out.

 

If you are hunting in designated legal hunting areas with a firearm that is legally usable for hunting, on a designated target range, or in some training class situations, temporary xfers are OK without the COE process, and even account for HG's. There are some additional laws regarding minors that are even more flexible believe it or not.

 

Think of it this way... there are separate laws that govern acquisition and transferring versus possession and carrying. To hand someone a gun, both areas of law have to be accounted for. If you already own the gun yourself, then the possession and carrying laws are your main concern. If you want to acquire a gun or hand over a gun to someone else, then you have to account for those laws before the possession laws even come into play.

 

That being said, 99.9% of the time, the activity that you are describing would not be pursued by LE... but that doesn't make it "legal"....

[Sandy 44]

within either his or my backyard,

 

It is not a handgun ..every time I have purchased a long gun so far it has been in someone's home , where they had their guns. And , you do not have the travel restrictions on long guns that you have with handguns. So if you bring your long gun to someone's home and then show it to them and let them hold it on their property I really think you would be fine. As long as you are not shooting cans or something lol I mean , if you were selling it and brought it to his house for a face to face , are there any restrictions on where a face to face can take place for long guns? I don;t recall reading any , of course that does not mean there are no laws on it.

 

I would not stand on my lawn and handle rifles , and not because of what the neighbors would think either. I would not do it for the same reason I do not walk in the house with my expensive camera gear slung over my shoulder . It is all in carry cases that DON'T say Nikon on them lol . I like my immediate neighbors , 3 out 5 on my block are LE. But there are still teens playing hoops in the street all the time from 2 houses away on the corner ( we live on a dead end) . I don't want them to see anything tempting , period.

[Melgamatic 66]

.every time I have purchased a long gun so far it has been in someone's home

 

I have bought and sold maybe a dozen or more rifles on this forum, and I think about 80% of the sale transactions have taken place in random parking lots....sometimes the parking lot in front of a big gun store, but also in a Best Buy, a Radio Shack, and various other places. We've always been discrete, and I've lamented not being able to hold them up in the light for a long time, but I've always assumed that what we were doing was relatively legal....

[M4BGRINGO 139]

My neighbors know what I have. They have also seen me carry two shotguns at a time over my shoulders to clean them in the garage. I also have everything in safes, not worried about someone breaking-in. Dead end street with several retired people that sit around all day long watching time go by, they don't miss a thing!

 

I would rather see the stupid "transfer" laws corrected before we ever get CCW in this state. Unfreaking real that I can't take a handgun purchased with a permit bearing my wifes name to the range without her being with me. Guess having 10+ handguns purchased with permits bearing my name just isn't good enough. I take my chances from time to time but make sure she is only a phone call away.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Thanks again everyone. I appreciate the comments, feedback and opinions. For me, I have no problem if the neighbors know I have guns. They probably see me going to the range a few times each week, so trying to keep it a "secret" is next to impossible. I consider them knowing I'm armed an advantage rather than a disadvantage for me. Anyway, we did this without incident. I was showing him my new Marlin and he then brought out his tricked-out 10/22. We were in my yard, using the tailgate as a table. No one else was outside, etc, so we didn't have any issues. Even if someone had come out side, I felt comfortable enough within the law not to have worried.

[JrzyGuy30 0]

It bewilders me that people would think "Oh look, he owns some nice guns, I'm going to B&E into his house and hope he's not there and steal his firearms (or gats/guns/whatever they call them)"... I would think that immediately I'd be more cautious about my neighbor, my interactions with that individual and also assume that if anyone enters his house without permission will more than likely not make it back out...

 

Just my 0.02 ...

[BlueLineFish 615]

You are neighbors. Just do it inside. If you dont trust him inside you shouldnt be showing him your guns

[this_is_nascar 162]

It bewilders me that people would think "Oh look, he owns some nice guns, I'm going to B&E into his house and hope he's not there and steal his firearms (or gats/guns/whatever they call them)"... I would think that immediately I'd be more cautious about my neighbor, my interactions with that individual and also assume that if anyone enters his house without permission will more than likely not make it back out...

 

Just my 0.02 ...

 

 

I agree with you. That's always been my thought process anyway. Others see it as letting the nieghbors know that you may have something of value in the house. To each his own I guess .

[this_is_nascar 162]

You are neighbors. Just do it inside. If you dont trust him inside you shouldnt be showing him your guns

 

 

It has nothing to do with not wanting him inside or me being inside his house, etc. Why should I be forced to "hide" indoors for doing nothing wrong or illegal?

[BlueLineFish 615]

Nobody is forcing you but in this state why possibly create a headache just to prove that what you are doing is technically legal.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Nobody is forcing you but in this state why possibly create a headache just to prove that what you are doing is technically legal.

 

 

I understand what you're saying, but the only way to be totally safe in this state is to NOT own firearms or ammo. As been said many times on this board, one can not/should not give up their rights. Each time we perform an action that's perfectly legal "just to be safe", we play into the hands of the anti-firearms folks. As little as 3-6 months ago, I would not transport a loaded magazine to the range. Now, if I'm taking my 9mm to the range, I have (10) fully loaded mags with me. Why? Because it's not against the law to do so and it's a convenience to have them pre-loaded.

[Sandy 44]

It really depends on your neighbors. In other words it is an individual thing. The gaggle of teen boys that live on my corner ( facing the other street , but their hoop set up is on our dead end) are very Gangsta. The whole family is . I waved to the 7 year old once as I was pulling out of my driveway and he made those winking and kissy gestures at me the way construction workers in the city do. So I laughed because he was 7 and it was funny. Since I laughed he gave me the finger and said "F you lady" while his older relatives were laughing their a$$es off.

 

Yeah , I do not want them knowing anything about my house besides knowing we have 2 large dogs and an alarm system. They are the type that are more likely to break in when they see you leave the driveway if they think you have the goods. My stuff is kept in safes , but that does not mean I don't care if they or anyone else breaks in.

[JrzyGuy30 0]

It really depends on your neighbors. In other words it is an individual thing. The gaggle of teen boys that live on my corner ( facing the other street , but their hoop set up is on our dead end) are very Gangsta. The whole family is . I waved to the 7 year old once as I was pulling out of my driveway and he made those winking and kissy gestures at me the way construction workers in the city do. So I laughed because he was 7 and it was funny. Since I laughed he gave me the finger and said "F you lady" while his older relatives were laughing their a$$es off.

 

Yeah , I do not want them knowing anything about my house besides knowing we have 2 large dogs and an alarm system. They are the type that are more likely to break in when they see you leave the driveway if they think you have the goods. My stuff is kept in safes , but that does not mean I don't care if they or anyone else breaks in.

 

Man... The kind of neighbors I dread having... I'd have a 'I shoot first, ask questions later' sign by my door or mailbox. Lol

[forayzor 1]

Man some people really push the paranoia limit.

[this_is_nascar 162]

It really depends on your neighbors. In other words it is an individual thing. The gaggle of teen boys that live on my corner ( facing the other street , but their hoop set up is on our dead end) are very Gangsta. The whole family is . I waved to the 7 year old once as I was pulling out of my driveway and he made those winking and kissy gestures at me the way construction workers in the city do. So I laughed because he was 7 and it was funny. Since I laughed he gave me the finger and said "F you lady" while his older relatives were laughing their a$$es off.

 

Yeah , I do not want them knowing anything about my house besides knowing we have 2 large dogs and an alarm system. They are the type that are more likely to break in when they see you leave the driveway if they think you have the goods. My stuff is kept in safes , but that does not mean I don't care if they or anyone else breaks in.

 

 

Yea, I can understand your point with nieghbors like that. It sucks having neighbors like that. Trust me, as I know well from previous places I've lived.

[leadjacket 0]

It really depends on your neighbors. In other words it is an individual thing. The gaggle of teen boys that live on my corner ( facing the other street , but their hoop set up is on our dead end) are very Gangsta. The whole family is . I waved to the 7 year old once as I was pulling out of my driveway and he made those winking and kissy gestures at me the way construction workers in the city do. So I laughed because he was 7 and it was funny. Since I laughed he gave me the finger and said "F you lady" while his older relatives were laughing their a$$es off.

 

Yeah , I do not want them knowing anything about my house besides knowing we have 2 large dogs and an alarm system. They are the type that are more likely to break in when they see you leave the driveway if they think you have the goods. My stuff is kept in safes , but that does not mean I don't care if they or anyone else breaks in.

its too bad we cant choose our neighbors,they can make your life miserable.

[this_is_nascar 162]

its too bad we cant choose our neighbors,they can make your life miserable.

 

 

To make it even worse, what happens more times than not, is you initially choose a place with decent neighbors. They move out and you get scumbags that move in to take their place. They encourage their families to move in town and before you know it, you have a neighborhood in the tank.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Man... The kind of neighbors I dread having... I'd have a 'I shoot first, ask questions later' sign by my door or mailbox. Lol

 

Good thing, in a neighborhood like mine, it might mean something. In other neighbor hoods it would be looked at as a challenge..

[Sandy 44]

Man some people really push the paranoia limit.

 

I have been broken into 3 times , once while we were home and my 75 year old Grandfather and I spent a lot of adrenaline trying to keep him from getting through the backdoor with our own pick ax . The only thing that kept him out was the fact that my paranoid Grandfather had put a bolt from the door into the floor at the bottom of the back door. Yes , some of us are a little leary of getting broken into..for the 4th time. It is not a number I am striving for.

[forayzor 1]

 

I have been broken into 3 times , once while we were home and my 75 year old Grandfather and I spent a lot of adrenaline trying to keep him from getting through the backdoor with our own pick ax . The only thing that kept him out was the fact that my paranoid Grandfather had put a bolt from the door into the floor at the bottom of the back door. Yes , some of us are a little leary of getting broken into..for the 4th time. It is not a number I am striving for.

 

My comment was not directed towards you at all. I am referring to this entire thread. There is no reason this question should even have been raised.

 

Op, If you are so worried about neighbors seeing your guns, or people calling the police, don't bring your guns outside to show the neighbors. Keep them inside.

 

Some people are so paranoid on this forum about gun laws. While the laws are strict, the police aren't searching houses to see if your muzzle brake is pinned, or your adjustable stock is pinned. I am not condoning illegal gun modifications at all by saying this, but when pictures are shown online and the poster feels the need to say "this is welded" or "this is pinned" or "magazine modified" it really is paranoia.

 

If your neighbor wants to touch your guns, he doesn't need an FID. If he wants to buy, he does. It's really quite simple.

 

If you are worried about legalities, do these type of things inside where you have privacy

[Sandy 44]

Oh , sorry