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TheDon

“Papers Please.”

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I was under the impression from reading a similar tread not too long ago that one of our LEO members remarked that not all NJ forces have access to that information and even the ones that did would have to log into several peripheral sites in order to bring it up.Perhaps someone on the job can clarify?

If the PD can access Criminal Histories, they can access handgun purchases. It's very easy to access and can be searched by name or SSN in a matter of minutes.

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This would be an interesting test case. A cop wrongly arrests you for weapons possession and seizes your firearms, only to later discover the whole thing was an error. A good attorney could probably have a field day with something like this. The only thing wrong with suing the nuts off a town is that innocent people's taxes go up.

 

Some people would argue that those 'innocent' people whose taxes went up, aren't so 'innocent' if they idly stood by and allow the government to do the things that they do.

 

But then again.....this is NJ

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If the PD can access Criminal Histories, they can access handgun purchases. It's very easy to access and can be searched by name or SSN in a matter of minutes.

 

There is no firearms database that is available to municipalities that i know of and by all mean thank god, i dont need my firearms info pulled up every time a cop runs my plates. Private sales of long guns are only recorded by the seller and purchaser... They can request info from YOUR municipality, or the state police, but don't hold your breath while you wait.

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There is no firearms database that is available to municipalities that i know of and by all mean thank god, i dont need my firearms info pulled up every time a cop runs my plates. Private sales of long guns are only recorded by the seller and purchaser... They can request info from YOUR municipality, or the state police, but don't hold your breath while you wait.

That's what I thought was the case,the info was available but not readily so from a cruiser's unit. Perhaps if the officer calls it in to his HQ and then someone accesses it and then get it back to him but as you said... don't hold your breath.

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How about the feds? Do they know who owns what?

 

Fed, by Federal Law, aren't allowed to have a registration database.

By the way, are you interested in buying a bridge?

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There is no firearms database that is available to municipalities that i know of and by all mean thank god, i dont need my firearms info pulled up every time a cop runs my plates. Private sales of long guns are only recorded by the seller and purchaser... They can request info from YOUR municipality, or the state police, but don't hold your breath while you wait.

 

You would be wrong. Every time you fill out a Permit to Purchase Handgun, the NJSP records it in their data base. That database is searchable by any municipality that has CJIS access, that is a fact.

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You would be wrong. Every time you fill out a Permit to Purchase Handgun, the NJSP records it in their data base. That database is searchable by any municipality that has CJIS access, that is a fact.

 

It wasn't when I was the TAC for my agency.

 

OTOH, NYS pistol licenses are on NYSPIN in NYS.

 

I remember trying to do a search for one of our guy's PTP back in the mid-90's. ISTR it was piled away in a Quonset hut at Division HQ. Never did find it.

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It wasn't when I was the TAC for my agency.

 

OTOH, NYS pistol licenses are on NYSPIN in NYS.

 

I remember trying to do a search for one of our guy's PTP back in the mid-90's. ISTR it was piled away in a Quonset hut at Division HQ. Never did find it.

 

It's been there for awhile. It's in NCIC 2000 in the same section as CCHs and IIIs. When you search Master Name Index, there is a button for Firearms search.

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To people saying that every P2P is kept on record with the NJSP:

 

What if the handgun you are transporting was purchased in another state while living there and came with you when you moved, or it was inherited. In those cases, NJ would not have any record of a P2P or any other paperwork on the firearm, would they?

How would that show up to an office who is trying to determine the legitimacy that you own said handgun?

 

(I'm just curious, trying to get a handle on exactly how it could be determined if you actually legally own a handgun; especially if it wasn't purchased in NJ)

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To people saying that every P2P is kept on record with the NJSP:

 

What if the handgun you are transporting was purchased in another state while living there and came with you when you moved, or it was inherited. In those cases, NJ would not have any record of a P2P or any other paperwork on the firearm, would they?

How would that show up to an office who is trying to determine the legitimacy that you own said handgun?

 

(I'm just curious, trying to get a handle on exactly how it could be determined if you actually legally own a handgun; especially if it wasn't purchased in NJ)

 

They wouldn't. The database only applies to handguns purchased in NJ and placed on a NJ P2P. Your FID card permits you to legally own a handgun in your home.

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They wouldn't. The database only applies to handguns purchased in NJ and placed on a NJ P2P. Your FID card permits you to legally own a handgun in your home.

 

So if you don't have any paperwork to present to the officer, and he does not have any database to check, does he just have to take your word for it, that you are the legal owner of the handgun?

 

(I am assuming you were stopped while transporting the gun to a range, not just keeping it in your home)

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So if you don't have any paperwork to present to the officer, and he does not have any database to check, does he just have to take your word for it, that you are the legal owner of the handgun?

 

(I am assuming you were stopped while transporting the gun to a range, not just keeping it in your home)

 

If you have your FID card and he weapons are transported properly there shouldn't be a problem. But this being NJ, you never know. If I stopped you and you met the criteria I just stated, there wouldn't be a problem.

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It's been there for awhile. It's in NCIC 2000 in the same section as CCHs and IIIs. When you search Master Name Index, there is a button for Firearms search.

 

It's about time. NCIC2000 was supposed to go in for years, and everytime it got close there was a CF that delayed it. So for years we stayed on that hard wired system.

 

My boss was the primary reason I retired, but the thought of how my management would screw up the switch to an IP based system (and blame it on me) was also not a small consideration.

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Questions for fellow forum members that are police officers:

 

Assuming that someone is properly transporting his firearms (unloaded, locked in cases and/or the trunk, ammo locked in a different case, both out of reach in rear of car or trunk...) and is in the process of going about his business going to the range, place of business, etc., then how would you react in the scenario of stopping someone with guns?

 

Obviously if it is an SUV, station wagon, hatchback or something of the like, it is probable that the items would most likely be visiable, targets, long-gun cases, etc., but the guns could very well be locked in the trunk with all gear, etc. However, how far can the person being stopped go to conceal that stuff from the casual view without hiding a concealed weapon from you? The best thing would be to lock them in a trunk and not have any evidence of their transportation at the stop, but that is not always possible.

 

So, if you see them at a stop, or are foolishly told they are there without you specifically asking (or if you ask), when you pulled someone over for a minor traffic violation (only an idiot would speed, not stop fully at a light, etc. with guns in the car, but I guess someone could accidentally make an illegal turn, have a brake light out, get caught in a speed trap, or something, then what would you be inclined to do? Would you asked to see the firearms ID card? Would you grill the person and passengers in the car as to where they are going, etc? Would you insist on checking the firearms for no other reason than that you know they are present?

 

If you did check them, would you insist on seeing a copy of a pistol permit for each? Would you take an inventory of what you saw? Would you check to see if items were legal, mag sizes, AK, etc.? Would you confiscate any or all of the firearms for some reason, so as to sort it out later? Would you confiscate AND take the person into custody (just because he didn't look right or you were suspicious even though you were really just going on your gut? Would you confiscate the firearms, ammo, and take the person in to the station for questioning? How would the confiscated firearms be transported, stored, kept? Would you be careful with someone else's property (not scratching and banging it, etc.)? Would you inventory it before taking it and give the person you stopped a copy of that? If more than one person was in the car, would you handle it differently? And, lastly, would having the pistol permit paperwork copies have made any difference in any outcomes?

 

And, I am asking this question in the view that it is not 2:00 AM and I am claiming to be going to my local range or to a gunsmith to drop them off, and that I am not a felon, have a restraining order, etc..

 

Please advise... thanks.

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Patriot Oak,

 

All good questions, except for the one about 2 AM. My range is open 24 hrs. round-the-clock, so members who get off from 2nd shift arrive all night long to shoot hand guns indoors (and pistol-caliber carbines too).

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Some people would argue that those 'innocent' people whose taxes went up, aren't so 'innocent' if they idly stood by and allow the government to do the things that they do.

 

I would argue that :)

 

They wouldn't. The database only applies to handguns purchased in NJ and placed on a NJ P2P. Your FID card permits you to legally own a handgun in your home.

 

It does not; the FID card permits you to legally transport unloaded long guns (anywhere) and pistols (to and from a permitted location). You need nothing to keep guns in your home, as long as they were legally purchased.

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I would just make sure you have you FID card with you when you transport. FYI all your NJ handgun purchases are searchable by any NJ Police Dept in the state computer system. If there was ever a question, it could be cleared up in 5 minutes.

 

That statement is comforting and scares the heck out of me all at once. Boy oh boy, are you telling me if some radical Marxist got into power in this state, they could search out who the gun owners are in a few minutes? I thought it was all on paper only ...a copy to the SP, FFL and owner. Also, I thought long guns were FFL and owner only.

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There is a lot of misinformation going around. It is called a Firearms Purchaser Identification Card for long guns and Handgun Purchase Permit for pistols. These have nothing to do with transportation and you do not need them for transportation. The common word between both is "Purchase." They are only required for NJ residents to purchase while living in NJ.

 

If a gun is purchased legally in another state and you move to NJ, a FPID is not required. However, you need to meet the requirements as set in NJ firearms laws which basically means you would need to be able to pass a firearms background check. If you can't, and questioned by LEO during some type of illegal activity then you may have a problem.

 

Even with a FPID or PP in possession and you don't meet the requirements for owning a firearm, you may be screwed.I don't remember reading one NJ law stating that you need a FPID or PP for transportation. I understand that NJ laws are somewhat confusing, but we do have rights and these laws are set in place so that LEO can't make up their own rules on the road. If they do, lawsuits will follow.

 

I've had a boat load of guns, ammo, and targets in full view in a SUV while going through a vehicle inspection checkpoint and was waived through no questions asked. Everyone needs to stop with the paranoia.

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That statement is comforting and scares the heck out of me all at once. Boy oh boy, are you telling me if some radical Marxist got into power in this state, they could search out who the gun owners are in a few minutes? I thought it was all on paper only ...a copy to the SP, FFL and owner. Also, I thought long guns were FFL and owner only.

 

Long guns aren't searchable, only handguns that you bought in NJ with a permit to purchase handgun.

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There is a lot of misinformation going around. It is called a Firearms Purchaser Identification Card for long guns and Handgun Purchase Permit for pistols. These have nothing to do with transportation and you do not need them for transportation. The common word between both is "Purchase." They are only required for NJ residents to purchase while living in NJ.

 

If a gun is purchased legally in another state and you move to NJ, a FPID is not required. However, you need to meet the requirements as set in NJ firearms laws which basically means you would need to be able to pass a firearms background check. If you can't, and questioned by LEO during some type of illegal activity then you may have a problem.

 

Even with a FPID or PP in possession and you don't meet the requirements for owning a firearm, you may be screwed.I don't remember reading one NJ law stating that you need a FPID or PP for transportation. I understand that NJ laws are somewhat confusing, but we do have rights and these laws are set in place so that LEO can't make up their own rules on the road. If they do, lawsuits will follow.

 

I've had a boat load of guns, ammo, and targets in full view in a SUV while going through a vehicle inspection checkpoint and was waived through no questions asked. Everyone needs to stop with the paranoia.

 

Wish I could +1 You...

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Fed, by Federal Law, aren't allowed to have a registration database.

By the way, are you interested in buying a bridge?

 

Yes, but they aren't, but the FFL dealers have to report to the ATF what was in their store and what was sold so that is somewhat of a loophole for this. They themselves do not have a registration database they have a SALE database. I am not sure if it is 100%, but from what I poked around online and talking to various people that is my understanding of the subject. Regardless of that any LEO agency has a stole gun check that runs the serial numbers and it gives the list of what dealer transfered the name to who IE if I bought a gun a XYZ gun shop the FFL transfers the gun to me and it is theoretically under my name so if the LEOs search the serial number it comes to me. So if I sell it to Bob and do not transfer it via FFL dealer it comes back to me again unless I prove I sold the gun or it was stolen. Since I want to move to free america a common practice is to make a bill of sale and a copy of the persons drivers license so it is kind of the NJ COE although in NJ it is required in lets say Florida it is optional. It all comes down to how do you and the LEO or FFL intepret the laws.

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