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"Arsenal" of Weapons - Police stop in FL

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Wow, what a total load of crap, unless they are leaving some thing out. How does a stop for improper lane change turn into a 2 hour search of the car. How can they contact people and warn them about LEGAL activity. How can they then stop them again, with the help of the ATF investigating legal activity. This just doesn't add up, somethings clearly off about both of these articles. If this was me, i would be sueing the hell out of these LEOS for illegal detainment, violation of 2a rights, and improper search and seizure. Of course, this is with the facts given.

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Hilarious. Quite the arsenal. And they were let go after a 2 hour police stop with no charges filed.

 

http://www.northesca...escambia-school

 

Not just that, but were stopped a second time the next day, and let go again to sick the BATFE on them, who ALSO let them go. There's some odd behavior and story telling there, but they obviously don't have a record, and haven't been caught doing anything chargeable. Given the 30 round glock mags on the baby glock, and the sum of cash being just a bit under $9k, about the only thing that I could come up with after them clearing a cursory investigation three times is the are just trolling the cops.

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Not just that, but were stopped a second time the next day, and let go again to sick the BATFE on them, who ALSO let them go. There's some odd behavior and story telling there, but they obviously don't have a record, and haven't been caught doing anything chargeable. Given the 30 round glock mags on the baby glock, and the sum of cash being just a bit under $9k, about the only thing that I could come up with after them clearing a cursory investigation three times is the are just trolling the cops.

Well, if the story is right, they just opened up a clear cut lawsuit. People have every right to do what these guys did, even if they some how some way provoked the LEO's. I find it even harder to believe that 3 separate LE groups fell victim to these guys, they were out for blood and screwed themselves.

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Wow, what a total load of crap, unless they are leaving some thing out. How does a stop for improper lane change turn into a 2 hour search of the car. How can they contact people and warn them about LEGAL activity. How can they then stop them again, with the help of the ATF investigating legal activity. This just doesn't add up, somethings clearly off about both of these articles. If this was me, i would be sueing the hell out of these LEOS for illegal detainment, violation of 2a rights, and improper search and seizure. Of course, this is with the facts given.

 

Very easy for a simple violation to turn into a long stop. Waiting for warrants to search. Then warrant checks in the individual's and then serial number checks on the firearms. All that plus the search and them getting interviewed. That time doesnt seem unreasonable

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Although the LEO's couldn't find anything to prove it, these guys were probably up to no good... What kind of tutors carry around that much cash and that kind of weaponry??? You all don't think that's suspicous at all???

 

I think claiming to be tutors is odd. Especially for a firm in nj with it being verifiable they aren't expected to be doing such at the school they said.

 

What they had on them were firearms I'd expect on a law abiding Ccw holder. Looked like a baby glock, ruger lcp, and a small frame revolver. Only odd thing there were the 30 round mags.

 

On top of that they were compliant with the law, and didn't have a record to prevent them from being armed. There also appeared to be no reason to involve the batfe.

 

It's odd. They might be crooks who are very good at skirting the law, but I could definitely see it being someone trolling for a lawsuit.

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Although the LEO's couldn't find anything to prove it, these guys were probably up to no good... What kind of tutors carry around that much cash and that kind of weaponry??? You all don't think that's suspicous at all???

 

I agree there is more to this story. Contrary to wilhat many think ATF can't willy nilly seize guns. There is a legal basis for the seizure that's not disclosed.

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Federal agencies use local agencies to perform stops to keep the individual or individuals unaware of the federal presence. The locals gather intel and pass it onto the Feds. Then the Feds either continue monitoring or arrest suspects. So there is way more to the story.

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Very easy for a simple violation to turn into a long stop. Waiting for warrants to search. Then warrant checks in the individual's and then serial number checks on the firearms. All that plus the search and them getting interviewed. That time doesnt seem unreasonable

It's not the amount of time that bothers me, it's the fact such a small traffic violation turned into a search. Maybe the officer saw something i dunno.

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Federal agencies use local agencies to perform stops to keep the individual or individuals unaware of the federal presence. The locals gather intel and pass it onto the Feds. Then the Feds either continue monitoring or arrest suspects. So there is way more to the story.

But what agency in there right mind would arrest them one day after the initial search? I figure at the very worst they would be monitoring them, and what prompted the second stop? no news on why they were stopped a second time.

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Federal agencies use local agencies to perform stops to keep the individual or individuals unaware of the federal presence. The locals gather intel and pass it onto the Feds. Then the Feds either continue monitoring or arrest suspects. So there is way more to the story.

 

You are correct BLF. There are also times the Feds let state and local agencies do the prosecution if there is an applicable state law so as not to let the rest of the bad guys know they are on to them.

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But what agency in there right mind would arrest them one day after the initial search? I figure at the very worst they would be monitoring them, and what prompted the second stop? no news on why they were stopped a second time.

 

If they got what they need then at that point it doesn't matter

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But what agency in there right mind would arrest them one day after the initial search? I figure at the very worst they would be monitoring them, and what prompted the second stop? no news on why they were stopped a second time.

 

Read the followup. They were not arrested by ATF. The guns were seized and they were released. There may never be never be more news on this for a variety of legit reasons. LEOs can't take a win some lose some attitude. If they did many people can get hurt, die, or suffer some other way. I spent over 30 years as a LEO and was privy to what actually happened thousands of times. How many were accurately and completely reported in the press? Zero.

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The point i'm trying to make is that nothing changed in the day that passed between the first and second stop.

If they got what they need then at that point it doesn't matter

I'm not sure i follow.... They were stopped on day 1, and released with weapons. Stopped on day two(undisclosed as to why), ATF was notified, guns were seized.... and they guys were released. Obviously, yes the whole story is not there, but cmon, how do the guys walk and the guns are seized? I'm guessing the local police didnt have the authority to seize the weapons, so they called the big FED's who probably used some anti-terrorism law to take them.

 

 

Maybe the story is just horribly reported, which wouldn't surprise me. But i figure with all the new's hype about guns they would jump on this opportunity to scream criminal, not law abiding citizen has guns seized for no reason.... and goes on to list multiple agency's involvement in taking guns from people who aren't even charge with breaking a law.

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The point i'm trying to make is that nothing changed in the day that passed between the first and second stop.

 

I'm not sure i follow.... They were stopped on day 1, and released with weapons. Stopped on day two(undisclosed as to why), ATF was notified, guns were seized.... and they guys were released. Obviously, yes the whole story is not there, but cmon, how do the guys walk and the guns are seized? I'm guessing the local police didnt have the authority to seize the weapons, so they called the big FED's who probably used some anti-terrorism law to take them.

 

 

Maybe the story is just horribly reported, which wouldn't surprise me. But i figure with all the new's hype about guns they would jump on this opportunity to scream criminal, not law abiding citizen has guns seized for no reason.... and goes on to list multiple agency's involvement in taking guns from people who aren't even charge with breaking a law.

 

There can be a lot of changes between day one and two and whatever they were the ATF agents know for sure as the changes allowed them to seize the guns. I spent most of my career as a "big fed" and there are a plethora of laws that are unique to the federal government. Start with reading Title 18 of the US Code. Things are seized from people all the time without them charged with a crime. Just look at what Customs seizes on a daily basis. There was a reason for the guns to be seized apparently. You're looking for some big brother conspiracy and there is nothing reported indicating one.

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There can be a lot of changes between day one and two and whatever they were the ATF agents know for sure as the changes allowed them to seize the guns. I spent most of my career as a "big fed" and there are a plethora of laws that are unique to the federal government. Start with reading Title 18 of the US Code. Things are seized from people all the time without them charged with a crime. Just look at what Customs seizes on a daily basis. There was a reason for the guns to be seized apparently. You're looking for some big brother conspiracy and there is nothing reported indicating one.

Def. not looking to contribute to any type of conspiracy theory, just some insight as to how something like this could happen, and how it's justified.

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Def. not looking to contribute to any type of conspiracy theory, just some insight as to how something like this could happen, and how it's justified.

 

This is all supposition and in no way indicates what actually happened in this case. ATF asks local PD to keep their eye open for these guys. Any patrol officer worth their salt can follow someone for about 5 minutes and come up with a legitimate reason to stop them. They swerved, driving too fast, driving too slow, failed to come to a complete stop, etc. This is important as the initial justification for the stop has to be legal or anything they get can be inadmissible. As long as the polioce can justify reasons for detaining them (legal reasons not made up ones) keeping them for two hours is nothing. I've seen people legally detained for two days. Everything is done and there is no reason to seize the guns and arrest anyone. They're released. LEOs and yes even Feds just don't just work 9-5. Sometime after the release ATF found a reason to seize the guns and did so the next day. The guys may be charged with something later but maybe ATF findsit better to leave them out on the street for right now.

 

There are a bunch of reasons for stops, detention, and seizures that many people don't understand but they are legal.

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The big question mark is... driving around with that much cash.

 

When I was helping a buddy who owned a construction company a normal day I'd have 5-10k on me most days. I don't carry that much these days but there are times I'll have 1K or more on me. remember I travel with pre-filled out COE's and, well, you just never know.. ;)

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