picked up an ak47 at a gun show. whats it worth?

[M4BGRINGO 139]

I can hold any of my shotguns and shoot them with one hand even though they do not have a pistol grip. Not the easiest thing to do but my Rem 1100 makes it simpler since it is a semi...............

 

Now, I would love to be able to put a thumbhole stock on my Saiga-12 so I could "fix" the crappy trigger on it like I did on my Saiga 7.62x39. Anyone make a "plug" kit for a thumbhole stock so I could remove it at the range and have a decent setup to use then?

[vladtepes 1,060]

I can hold any of my shotguns and shoot them with one hand even though they do not have a pistol grip. Not the easiest thing to do but my Rem 1100 makes it simpler since it is a semi...............

 

Now, I would love to be able to put a thumbhole stock on my Saiga-12 so I could "fix" the crappy trigger on it like I did on my Saiga 7.62x39. Anyone make a "plug" kit for a thumbhole stock so I could remove it at the range and have a decent setup to use then?

 

the best solution I can recommend is this..

 

Making legal pistol grip semi auto shotguns

[Tactical Turtle 11]

 

 

the best solution I can recommend is this..

 

Making legal pistol grip semi auto shotguns

 

Lmao

[jcpg 4]

Honestly ak enthusiasts are the biggest group of gun snobbs in all of the gun community. Why can someone post any AR with an obvious pistol grip and not get burned? He has an AK variant with a thumbhole stock. Is it legal? Yes. Is it worth 800 dollars? No. Just leave him be. There's no such thing as a stupid question. 3 pages of burning for what? What are u educating him on? He only learned how asking 1 question can go completely in the wrong direction. Give him the chance to learn without ridicule. We are all noobs compared to someone else.

[PK90 3,570]

AK47 (T1, the original) and the AKM respectivly

pic #1

pic #2

 

I would classify both of those as Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms that have been configured in such a way not to be considered substantially identical because of the one evil feature directive in the administrative code.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Honestly ak enthusiasts are the biggest group of gun snobbs in all of the gun community. Why can someone post any AR with an obvious pistol grip and not get burned? He has an AK variant with a thumbhole stock. Is it legal? Yes. Is it worth 800 dollars? No. Just leave him be. There's no such thing as a stupid question. 3 pages of burning for what? What are u educating him on? He only learned how asking 1 question can go completely in the wrong direction. Give him the chance to learn without ridicule. We are all noobs compared to someone else.

 

many posts in this thread have NOTHING to do with him...

 

his thumbhole stock is a pistol grip in NJ BUT that is only ONE evil feature.. thus still legal... (just like an AR)

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

[Teufelhunden 6]

In NJ that stock is probably considered a pistol grip. In the rest of the country it is considered a "sporting" thumbhole stock. If one were to change it to a real pistol grip then the rifle would also have to be made 922r compliant, otherwise it would be illegal in all 50 states (assuming it doesn't already have enough US parts, like a SAR-1 for example).

[RedBowTies88 41]

I still don't buy that a thumbhole stock is a pistol grip per the statute (Flame suit on) regularless of the BS the NJSP feeds everyone.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

the best solution I can recommend is this..

 

Making legal pistol grip semi auto shotguns

 

You wise-a**, just rub it in a little more! One day dude, one day.............. Enjoy your freedom in AMERICA! I'll suffer a little while longer.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

3 pages of nonsense

[vladtepes 1,060]

You wise-a**, just rub it in a little more! One day dude, one day.............. Enjoy your freedom in AMERICA! I'll suffer a little while longer.

 

if I didn't like you.. I wouldn't encourage you to come...

[PK90 3,570]

3 pages of nonsense

 

And you contributed to it.

 

 

Oops, I did too.

[johnp 45]

the best solution I can recommend is this..

 

Making legal pistol grip semi auto shotguns

 

hahahaha

 

I clicked on the link, like an asshole. haha

[hd2000fxdl 422]

hahahaha

 

I clicked on the link, like an asshole. haha

 

Try this one then..

[halbautomatisch 60]

sigh

 

Benelli M4 PISTOL grip is part of the stock.. it does not make it not a pistol grip..

I suppose someone could make a case for that.... but, it is well defined, like or alike to the pistol grip found on a handgun and protrudes conspicuously. I don't think anyone here is going to say that that stock is the same as a thumbhole stock.

 

 

a regular stock is swept to the rear of the gun and grasps the gun behind the action..

a pistol grip is BENEATH the action..

Yes, but all thumbhole stocks by design attach both behind and under the action, where in the law does it say that ANYTHING attached under an action is a pistol grip? Only when the three qualifiers are present does that matter.

 

 

 

The state is defining "pistol grip" so that you understand what they mean by pistol grip..

 

is the grip shaped like a pistol? sure.. the definition discusses SHAPE not how it is attached to the gun.. is the SHAPE similar to a pistol.. sure is to me.. it is SIMILAR to any pistol I have ever shot in that it is swept down towards the ground as opposed to the back like a traditional rifle stock...

The point is that if a pistol had a stock attached to it it would be an SBR. It doesn't PROTRUDE CONSPICUOUSLY, is not WELL DEFINED and is not SIMILAR TO THAT FOUND ON A HANDGUN since it is part of the stock.

 

 

 

is the grip beneath the action? of course... a traditional rifle stock is BEHIND the action of the weapon.. a pistol grip is BENEATH the action of the weapon...

Irrelevant if the three qualifiers are not present.

 

 

 

can you hold AND fire it with one hand? sure you can.. comfortably? no.. but can it be done? YES.. the ruling says "can be held AND fired" not can it be easily held and fired..just CAN it be.. and well sure it can be..

Again, irrelevant if the three qualifiers are not present. I think an argument could be made that if even only one of the qualifiers is not present, it's not a pistol grip..... but I'll let someone better versed on law say if that could be the case.

 

 

 

the NJ state police firearms division has echoed the same information when contacted time and time again..

Yeah, just like the tell people that firearms MUST be transported in a locked case with the ammo stored in a separate container....... bottom line with asking the NJSP an opinion about the law, is that they will tell you what they want the law to be, not necessarily what the law actually says.

 

There is no case law on what exactly a pistol grip is, so until a judge decides (and is sustained though appeals) a case involving a thumb hole is a pistol grip, what anyone (NJSP included) else says is largely irrelevant. There is a good reason that not many cases of this nature are not brought to trial..... the prosecutors do not want to risk losing a risky case that could set new precedents that might rule such things to be actually legal. They would rather go after the solid charges that are clear violations of the law - that's what most defendants end up getting charged with.

[vladtepes 1,060]

the LAW does not say WHERE the pistol grip needs to attach.. your argument that it attaches to the stock is moot.. because.. the LAW does not comment on WHERE it attaches..

ALL the law says is

 

is it beneath the action.. YES

can you hold and fire with one hand.. YES

Is it shaped SIMILAR to the grip of a handgun.. SIMILAR is an intentionally vague word. YES

 

 

if it is BENEATH the action.. allows the gun to be fired with one hand.. and has a grip SIMILAR to that of a handgun.. then for NJ practicality it IS a pistol grip..

 

the issue is you are thinking like an emotional gun enthusiasts and inserting all of these irrelevant factors.. like it being attached to the stock.. the law does not discuss attaching to a stock.. it has NO bearing on the legal opinion of what a pistol grip is..

[johnp 45]

Try this one then..

 

Well, shit..I'm not cool apparently. Am I cool enough to keep my harleys, or do I need to immediately sell them? lol

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Well, shit..I'm not cool apparently. Am I cool enough to keep my harleys, or do I need to immediately sell them? lol

 

Do you want the answer?? LMAO,,

 

naaa, keep them and pass them down in the family like guns

[M4BGRINGO 139]

if I didn't like you.. I wouldn't encourage you to come...

 

Thanks man, one day, one day........... I can't wait to buy a small drum mag for my Saiga!

 

BTW, I went to FREE AMERICA on Sunday and shot Sporting Clays at a cool little club in Falls Township, right across the river from scummy Trenton, had a blast over there!

[halbautomatisch 60]

the LAW does not say WHERE the pistol grip needs to attach.. your argument that it attaches to the stock is moot.. because.. the LAW does not comment on WHERE it attaches..

ALL the law says is

I never argued about WHERE a pistol grip attaches as being relevant, the point is that pistol grip is not attached to the stock (since it is not removable from it), rather it is part of the stock because it is all one piece.

 

is it beneath the action.. YES Irrelevant, read my post above.

can you hold and fire with one hand.. YES Irrelevant, read my post above.

Is it shaped SIMILAR to the grip of a handgun.. SIMILAR is an intentionally vague word. YES No it's not, read my post above.

 

 

 

if it is BENEATH the action.. allows the gun to be fired with one hand.. and has a grip SIMILAR to that of a handgun.. then for NJ practicality it IS a pistol grip..

Not without the qualifiers, read my post above.

 

the issue is you are thinking like an emotional gun enthusiasts and inserting all of these irrelevant factors..give me an example of where I have done this, other than this > like it being attached to the stock..see my point above the law does not discuss attaching to a stock.. it has NO bearing on the legal opinion of what a pistol grip is..

I have brought up many other reasons why I believe, it's not a pistol grip that you have not addressed, as well as as some legal theories (not emotion) as to why some things do not apply. You don't need to agree with me, but without addressing each of the points I'm making, this is going no where.

[vladtepes 1,060]

the point is that pistol grip is not attached to the stock (since it is not removable from it), rather it is part of the stock because it is all one piece.

 

the law never mentions the word stock.. the law says this..

 

"Pistol grip" means a well defined handle,

 

handle

1.

a part of a thing made specifically to be grasped or held by the hand.

 

notice that to be a handle.. it CAN be PART of the stock... a handle can be "part of something"

 

similar to that found on a handgun,

 

SIMILAR to that found on a handgun.. so in other words.. it is a part of something.. that can be held or gasped... that is simply "similar" to the grip of a handgun..

if you read it word for word.. with a completely unbiased neutral stance.. the WORDS say that a thumbhole stock like the one pictured on the AK is most certainly a pistol grip...

I am NO fan of NJ law.. but I read it.. in an unbiased manner.. and I do not see how you can draw any other conclusion..

[RedBowTies88 41]

Try this one then..

 

Thats hilarious

 

the LAW does not say WHERE the pistol grip needs to attach.. your argument that it attaches to the stock is moot.. because.. the LAW does not comment on WHERE it attaches..

ALL the law says is

 

is it beneath the action.. YES

can you hold and fire with one hand.. YES

Is it shaped SIMILAR to the grip of a handgun.. SIMILAR is an intentionally vague word. YES

 

 

it is BENEATH the action.. allows the gun to be fired with one hand.. and has a grip SIMILAR to that of a handgun.. then for NJ practicality it IS a pistol grip..

 

the issue is you are thinking like an emotional gun enthusiasts and inserting all of these irrelevant factors.. like it being attached to the stock.. the law does not discuss attaching to a stock.. it has NO bearing on the legal opinion of what a pistol grip is..

 

But does it "protrude conspicuously"? and is it "well defined"? I think not.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Thats hilarious

 

 

 

But does it "protrude conspicuously"? and is it "well defined"? I think not.

 

protrudes conspicuously?

sure.. it sticks out in an obvious way?

well defined? it is defined enough to grab it and hold it, as you would a pistol?

then sure.. it is well defined..

 

just remember if it comes down to it.. who will judge you.. a jury filled with gun enthusiasts? unlikely..

[RedBowTies88 41]

In the rare occasion the jury being non gun enthuiests will probably work to our advantage. If you want down the street and show a random person a mak90 and ask them if this is pistol grip I doubt they will say yes. It's far from well defined or conspicuous in my opinion and I believe the general pulblic would share in that point of view.

[KpdPipes 388]

Maybe you guys should stop flaming on him when all he asked was what it would be worth, not whether it's legal or illegal.

 

I will say it looks legal though, there is only 1 'e' feature on it.

 

Oh, and I wouldn't rely on your brother being a cop as a legitimate reason as to whether it's legal or not though. A lot of cops don't know much about firearms, especially legalities of firearms. Just saying..

 

This. NICE WORK..we have a new poster and some of you jagoffs, rather than INSTRUCT him, act like Assholes.....

[intercooler 41]

mak 90 w/thumbhole stock has legal precident as being legal...

[vladtepes 1,060]

mak 90 w/thumbhole stock has legal precident as being legal...

 

semi auto with pistol grip OR thumbhole is legal.. it is just ONE evil feature..

[McMaster 7]

Honestly ak enthusiasts are the biggest group of gun snobs in all of the gun community. Why can someone post any AR with an obvious pistol grip and not get burned? He has an AK variant with a thumbhole stock. Is it legal? Yes. Is it worth 800 dollars? No. Just leave him be. There's no such thing as a stupid question. 3 pages of burning for what? What are u educating him on? He only learned how asking 1 question can go completely in the wrong direction. Give him the chance to learn without ridicule. We are all noobs compared to someone else

 

 

This post is giving me an opportunity to express a feeling that I’ve had many times in the past about our beloved NJ Gun Forum.

 

Can I say this… jcpg has it right! Only thing I don’t agree with is… that he believes it is specific to the “XX variant” section of the forum. That I don’t agree with. It’s the entire forum really.

 

I rarely post at the forum for the exact reason jcpg describes in his comment. It’s disgusting actually. You can’t ask a question without someone chiming in with some ridiculous nonsense or just being immature and treating someone like an idiot. It's crazy.

 

But then again I’m from NJ my whole life… it’s par for the course. It’s just the way it is here in the armpit of the universe. Not only with guns but with everything! To say I’m used to it would probably be the understatement of the century. But it definitely doesn’t make it right.

 

When I finally have the opportunity to move to Bucks County… it goes without saying... there will NEVER be a reason to visit the NJ Gun Forum again! Thank God!

[XDJohnTact 49]

Hey, why wait? Leave NOW! And don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on your way out. The rest of us who actually enjoy the site probably won't even know you are gone?